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Independent Tracking: This weapon may fire at a different target to that of the Deredeo’s other shooting attacks if desired and ignores intervening obstacles to line of sight in open terrain.

Its the "ignores intervening obstacles to line of sight in open terrain"
What does this mean?

Does this mean it dosnt need line of sight ?
Does this also mean that you dont get a cover save in open terrain
You could only claim a cover save where line of sight dosnt applie eg ruins

It means exactly what it says. You ignore intervening obstacles for line of sight.

Normally If you can't see a unit you can't shoot it.
So, for example there'a a land raider between your model and the assault unit you want to kill, you can't see the assault marines. You'd fire at them as if there was nothing obstructing your LOS. However, this is only for selecting a target. They'd still get a cover save.

You can get cover in open terrain but only when going to ground.

 MattKing wrote:
You can get cover in open terrain but only when going to ground.

Or Jinking or have Stealth/Shrouded, or similar rules, of course.

As you also have to check line of sight to see if you get cover wouldnt you also ignore it then as it dosnt just specifiy for targeting

As normaly rules just say you dont need line of sight to beable to target (away from books at the moment) so unsure of exact wording ,but thinking of barrage weapons and tua seeking missiles ect




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I know its not an ignores cover rule ,so like you say jinking in ruins ect you would still get cover im thinking more of times when your in the open but between you and the target there is a ruin in the way but becuase thats ignored you cant claim a cover save from it

I'm not sure that it works if you have a ruin in between. Ruins are classified as terrain in the main rulebook separate from open ground, so I don't think you could call the ruin "open terrain" It depends on whether you take "in open terrain" to mean only what the Daredeo is in at the moment, or if it means any non-open terrain between the Daredeo and the target unit. I'm interested in what the others here have to say on that subject (a strict reading seems to say any terrain in between, not just what the Daredeo is in, but I could be persuaded otherwise by a good argument)

Rereading. it seems to sugest to me its refering to the targeted unit being in open terain but im still not sure . Im thinking of vechiles as the main target of the weapon and whislt they canot claim cover for being in ruins they can claim cover if it blocks line of sight by 25% so wondering if it woild ignore that part

I really thinks it's just LOS that it grants you. For example, the Spacemarine psychic power phase form is worded in a similar manner. When active it allows you to ignore line of sight. However, it then says that, in addition, weapons fired by the unit have the ignores cover special rule. I think if it gave IC in any form it would say so.

I disagree with what people are suggesting so far.

A unit in open ground can get a cover save due to intervening models. I.E. if you have one unit standing in front of another unit.

I think independent targeting allows you to ignore that.

You still need to be able to trace LOS. But if say... there is a half wall barrier in-between you and the target (but he is not touching it and is thus not in terrain) or he is back behind other units you can fire while ignoring those elements (thus negating the cover).

I would agree with that. on the intervening model part though i think they would still get a cover save as you dont have to be obscured by 25% to get it . I also think it has been worded diffrrnt to ignores cover because its tryinto achive somthing diffrent i remmber reading somewhere that they thought it was like a barrage with no template .


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Just had a chance to look in the brb and pg 37 gives and digram referencing line of sight

The example reads "3 orks have a 4+ cover save as at least one firing model has line of sight partially obscured by the ruin.............4 orks have a 6+ cover save as they are within a crater

So i think that would imply that if your are ignoring the obstacle to line of sight and the unit is in the open then they dont get a cover save .
If they are in terain you can only ignore obstacles to line of sight so if there was a ruin in between and the unit was in a crater they could only claim a crater save

 Lance845 wrote:
I disagree with what people are suggesting so far.

A unit in open ground can get a cover save due to intervening models. I.E. if you have one unit standing in front of another unit.

I think independent targeting allows you to ignore that.

You still need to be able to trace LOS. But if say... there is a half wall barrier in-between you and the target (but he is not touching it and is thus not in terrain) or he is back behind other units you can fire while ignoring those elements (thus negating the cover).

It's a strange one as other weapons that ignore Line of Sight, like the Impaler Cannon, also have the Ignores Cover special rule, suggesting they are separate.

 Lance845 wrote:
I disagree with what people are suggesting so far.

A unit in open ground can get a cover save due to intervening models. I.E. if you have one unit standing in front of another unit.

I think independent targeting allows you to ignore that.

You still need to be able to trace LOS. But if say... there is a half wall barrier in-between you and the target (but he is not touching it and is thus not in terrain) or he is back behind other units you can fire while ignoring those elements (thus negating the cover).

That seems reasonable.

 Lance845 wrote:
You still need to be able to trace LOS.

No you don't. The rule says "ignores intervening obstacles to line of sight", not "ignores the cover save granted by intervening obstacles to line of sight". What the rule essentially does is make the weapon a barrage weapon without giving it a blast template, you can fire "over" obstacles between the two units without needing LOS or allowing cover saves but you don't ignore any cover from jinking/area terrain/etc like a weapon with "ignores cover" would have.

I've always played my Deredeo as "you don't need actual Line of Sight, but anything in between will grant cover saves just as normal.

Just like Smart Missile Systems, you don't need LOS to fire that weapon

The rules dosnt state that to line of sight is just for targeting purposes . You have to use the rule for all los issues which means checking for cover . And on pg37 brb we get an example of how you have to use los to work out cover .

If it was just ignores line of sight why not just say "this weapon dosnt require los "
There has to be another reason to word the rule as they have .

It seems to me that the rule is giving ignores cover where you would get a cover save for being obscured by 25% . Once you are in terrain you get the cover save regardless because los is not used .

It would work the same for targetting if you are in terrain then you would need to draw line of sight to the target but you could ignore los to the terrain . If the target was in the open then you wouldnt need line of sight

GW, 10/10, would hand keyboard to 3rd grader to write the rules again.