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I've decided to stow my Dark Angels for a time and go with my second favorite chapter/legion, the Salamanders. Obviously, given the chapter fluff the flamer is nearly a must somewhere in the army. But with the re-roll to wound, is the +1 strength from the Flameblade strike force really that worth it? If so, how much should I invest in flamers throughout the army to make it worth the formation? As of right now, I'm just giving my 5 man tac squads flamers (S 5 I figure ain't bad) but should I invest in putting heavy flamers elsewhere? Or just don't use that formation? Appreciate the feedback and as always, if this relative noob posted in the wrong forum feel free to lay the Emperor's holy smack down.

If you really plan to spam Flamers yeah. S5 makes the Flamer drastically better even when already TLd.


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Otherwise I haven't studied the Salamanders Decurion enough to comment.

The problem is that Salamanders, being Space Marines, simply can't bring that many flamers. Unlike Blood Angels, Deathwatch, or to an extent Grey Knights, your opportunities are far more limited and outside of command squads you have no way to spam them in a single unit. (Heck, even Space Wolves at least can take 2 Flamers fo a squad instead of 1.)

Compared to the bonuses granted by other factions, +1 Strength is just not that great.

Waaaghpower wrote:
The problem is that Salamanders, being Space Marines, simply can't bring that many flamers. Unlike Blood Angels, Deathwatch, or to an extent Grey Knights, your opportunities are far more limited and outside of command squads you have no way to spam them in a single unit. (Heck, even Space Wolves at least can take 2 Flamers fo a squad instead of 1.)

Compared to the bonuses granted by other factions, +1 Strength is just not that great.

Kind of what I figured. With the ability to re-roll all ready it just didn't seem that swell. I've given the Sgt a combi-flamer which kind of gives my five man tac squads two and my assault squad has two as well but I feel like that's a waist for them. Not sure how two or three land speeders with dual heavy flamers or heavy flamer MM would do.

Unfortunately, the Flameblade Strike force's +1S to flamers and Fearless (when you don't move in the movement phase) is terrible when compared to free transports from Gladius Strike Force.

I recently tried using my Salamanders in Flameblade and it was fun and you can do some quirky things with the Fearless rule, but 350+ free points is too hilarious to pass up - from a truly competitive standpoint. Also, you have to compare the the differential between the 2 lists. Example: I usually run 8 pods in my armies (even more when I run Gladius) but as a point comparison we'll go with 8. That's 280 pts of pods you save with Gladius. Unfortunately you have to buy all 8 pods with Flameblade. That's 280 pts gone from your list compared to added. The differential is now 560 pts when you compared the two detachments. There is no way +1S and fearless will ever make up that point difference. Also - this was only 8 free drop pods, not the expected 10-12.

Well honestly I dont think any of the AoD detachments are as good as the good ol' Gladius from a purely competitive standpoint (The Iron Hand one can be an exception however). I view the AoD detachments as more for fun or less competitive lists. They can be cool to use and feel good without being overbearing.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Well honestly I don't think any of the AoD detachments are as good as the good ol' Gladius from a purely competitive standpoint (The Iron Hand one can be an exception however). I view the AoD detachments as more for fun or less competitive lists. They can be cool to use and feel good without being overbearing.

Appreciate the feedback. I'm thinking of doing both, honestly. The group I game with isn't too power-gamey so I may just build it around the Flameblade formation first but have some extra bits around for any competitive play I decide to go with.

Take gladius for competetive, the specific for normal games. As a long time salamanders player I like the buffs but unhappy with the formations given. Lots of speeder formations and speed benefit from decurion is not very salamandary. Really needed skyhammer and 1st company in there.

Sticking a chaplain with the long range bolter gun relic with assault marines is pretty fun, 4d6 movement a turn.

I've used the flameblade extensively, and I kind of disagree with what most others are saying here.

The FLGS I play at is at the middle between competitive and friendly, most people show up with armies that pack a punch. There aren't any that are super nasty, but you'll see a lot of knights and jetbikes sort of build. Definetly some tournament lists in there.

Is it true competitive? Probably not (although if GSC becomes extremely prevalent I see a brighter future).

First of all, the real power in this build are not normal flamers, but heavy flamers. Turning them into s6 ap4 templates will scare a lot of t3 armies (completely roasted invisi-zombi hordes - we play ITC so flamers counter invis well)

Secondly, do not underestimate Insta-fearless. A unit that is fearless cannot be pinned, so any gone to ground units get back up with no ill effects. With the amount of ap3+ weapons, cover is criticial, and being able to boost that 4+ back to a 3+ at the cost of movement can be a game-changer. Especially when dealing with gat-knights.

You can't build this list like a gladius, because as others have said you can't justify that many points in transports. I've had lots of success using the storm-lance demi-co with maximum squads, and then just equipping a flamer and a vet sarg (need to pass any penetrating hit test) and using them as anti-horde bases.
It's not that there the best at killing gribblies (although people really do underestimate 18 boltgun shots and a s5 flamer, all TL if the enemy unit holds an objective) It's that gribblies have a really hard time hurting them inside a rhino.

Stormbringer Formations are a cheap auxiliary that has ObSec and also has a max assault range of 30" with an average of 25"

Although I've also had a lot of success running the 1st Co task force with a librarius conclave. Kit your min stern squads (way to expensive otherwise) with HF's or Meltas/CM (don't mix inside squads) Since the drop pods are part of the detachment, a unit within 12 inches of any of the 4 units coming in are -2 leadership, then use the conclave to drop a psychic shriek on any big MC. Since your rolling on telepathy for at least one, you may even grab terrify (which combos back into this) or invis.

I haven't tried this yet, but you could also use the ravenhawk assault force? (one stormtalon, one sternguard, and a dreadnought). Put an ironclad in there for CC and put two heavy flamers on it, and it can threaten pretty much anything.

Only list I have consistent problems against are Pacific Rim tau allying a Culexus. But I don't use allies or Grav (because I don't like it).

Longer rant than I thought it would be. Don't think its a truly competitive detachment, but it has a bigger punch than what most here have said.