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My brother-in-law collects Emperors Children and is a big fan of Fulgrim. I think Ferrus Manus is awesome and we have both read the book "Fulgrim." In it, Ferrus Manus and Fulgrim meet on Istavan V and duel. The way I read it, is that Ferrus was about to kill Fulgrim before the intervention of the Slaanesh Daemon. He thinks Fulgrim would have found a way to beat him anyway. Planning on using this to settle the debate lol, so use honest opinions as we are both interested in your opinions

Its generally accepted Fulgrim was one of the most skilled dualists amongst the Primarchs so probably unlikely Manus could have beaten him.
In addition Manus had just fought across an entire battlefield to reach him and Fulgrim was then daemon buffed.
Its a similar duel to Mort VS Khan, tenacity/survivability VS skill/finesse and Khan nearly one that one too.

I agree with you that Fulgrim was exceptionally skilled, and I have actually come to the conclusion that Fulgrim would have beaten any other primarch he met that day except for Ferrus because was so disgusted by his betrayal that it made him more determined and stronger. The way I read it was that Fulgrim was the better fighter but couldn't take the same kind of punishment that Ferrus could. I mean, Ferrus gets hit in the head by forgebreaker and still struggles to his feet. The second Fulgrim gets sliced by fireblade he gets pinned by Ferrus. Ferrus would have taken his head with fireblade if not for the interention of the daemon imho.

The way to book reads Manus lost either way.

The intervention of the demon is not what let fulgrim beat manus. Fulgrim beat him out of his own skill.



So, no matter what, fulgrim was the better fighter of the two and won the duel either way.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
The way to book reads Manus lost either way.

The Daemon interferes before that when Ferrus and Fulgrim have locked weapons with each other. Ferrus is described as pushing his weapon towards Fulgrim with his superior strength until the Daemon sword helps Fulgrim win the physical contest. It's written to imply without that aid Fulgrim would have lost.

Well aside Fulgrim being from the 3rd Legion a duelist I think he was more accomplished and able then Ferrus. I read Fulgrim back in 08' so its been awhile but I do remember thinking that Fulgrim was fighting himself during that duel like he was for most of the end of the novel a bit weaker and confused. A lot of aspects in the read Fulgrim dislikes what he does and can't stomach it near the end of the novel. I honestly thing Fulgrim was weakest during that section and even in that fight. Think about it your confused morally to your core. Frustrated with your people, your sculpting and the way you perceive things and this brother wants to kill you that you care about and tried to bring to your faction? That's pretty frustrating and sad. If Ferrus was going to have any chance at beating Fulgrim it was in that fight...

I would say look into any other fights Ferrus has with Primarchs. Another one Fulgrim has is with Guilliman(Never read it just know about it) whom ended up poisoned and pretty much dead considering hes in a stasis chamber. I honestly thing Horus, Fulgrim and Sanguinius are literally on another level. People also have sharp bias FOR or AGAINST Fulgrim simply cause of what he represents which is kinda like this thread. It just seems like Fulgrim is loathed or loved but the man is seriously dangerous... His focus was war and the perfection of it. For the most part Fulgrim has 2 Primarch kills I don't think any other Primarch has got more then that under their belt. You also have to look at the fact that I honestly thing Ferrus is more of a 'builder' in the book. They go into sword that Ferrus crafted for Fulgrim to show his affection which ends up being destroyed(Foreshadowing Fulgrim losing his purity and gaining the laer blade). I would say if the contest in question was crafting the best sword or building a solid fortified base of operation... Ferrus would of handed Fulgrim his ass. But it was the one thing Fulgrim strives to be the best at... fighting...

Granted I'm bias for Fulgrim and I'll admit that but I try to hold reasons for it. I just don't see Ferrus winning a duel against him, if Fulgrim was pure or wholey demonic he would of lost horribly worse then he did in the book when Fulgrim was sick with demonic influences and in a delirium like haze. That duel was Ferrus best chance. I would say if they fought that duel over 10 times maybe... 6 / 4 Fulgrim. If Fulgrim was pure or demonic 8 / 2. No disrespect to Ferrus he has his strengths and weaknesses I just don't think he has much to offer in Primarch duels.

EDIT:

I would say, look at it like this if your going to argue with your friend though, Fulgrim loved art, crafting and creation. Fulgrim failed at his sculpting and became envious and jealous of Ferrus for his talent. Bring that to your friend if your going to get in the topic of whom is better at what. Cause Ferrus would win a crafting match quite easily against Fulgrim. And to Fulgrim that's really humiliating to a point.

Viridian, looking to Fulgrim's fight with Guilliman, wasn't Fulgrim a Daemon Prince at that point? The OP seems to want to focus on Fulgrim without the benefit of chaos, so bringing in a fight where Fulgrim was infused with chaos power seems outside the spirit of the intention of the debate.

Also, beating up Guilliman is apparently a favorite pastime of several Primarchs. Does he EVER win fights against another Primarch that doesn't involve forcing a Codex Astartes structure on other legions?

That said, it's been too long since I've read the book "Fulgrim", so I don't have a good memory of the shape of the fight, and can't really contribute much to that discussion, aside from the fact that Fulgrim was a perfectionist, which almost certainly would be applied to his skills as a duelist... but Ferrus always struck me as a pragmatist, and perfection in a duel that doesn't take place under perfect conditions with rules doesn't strike me as the advantage some people presume it to be against someone as tough as Ferrus Manus (who could survive long enough to take advantage of the imperfections of the arena, especially if he could change the duel into a wrestling match as he almost succeeded in doing).

I don't think Ferrus would be guaranteed a win either, but perfect dueling in imperfect conditions isn't an "I win" button for Fulgrim, IMO.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
The way to book reads Manus lost either way.

The Daemon interferes before that when Ferrus and Fulgrim have locked weapons with each other. Ferrus is described as pushing his weapon towards Fulgrim with his superior strength until the Daemon sword helps Fulgrim win the physical contest. It's written to imply without that aid Fulgrim would have lost.

Yes, this is what I remember too.

What I remember from the book is that Fulgrim is demonstrating more skill and lands several more blows on ferrus then ferrus does on him. But Ferrus is like T7 and 7 wounds so he dont give a damn (laughs evilly) But yeah, ferrus is tougher and can take the punishment, he then disarms Fulgrim, pins him to the ground and starts to force fireblade towards Fulgrims neck. Fulgrim then starts shouting no it wasn't meant to be like this and the daemon intervenes and Fulgrim manages to shove him off. It even says that Ferrus himself is suprised by the sudden demonstration of strength. Ferrus then reaches for Forgebreaker and the daemon actually says to Fulgrim "he will kill you" which shows Fulgrim would have lost round 2.

As far as Fulgrim vs Gulliman goes, Fulgrim was a Daemon prince and Gulliman is hardly a duellist primarch. Also, Gulliman still managed to banish him for 200 years so I'd call it a draw.

Just want to say that I don't hate Fulgrim, I hate him after his fall but I think everyone does lol, but yeah he's actually a pretty cool primarch. I just think Ferrus was the better fighter that day.