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chaos0xomega wrote:
I'm not sure if that's true or not, but I can say they raised their prices - they had the battlegroups listed for ~$110 a few weeks ago, now at $155.

I checked Wayland and the prices are the same. Maybe you saw the british pound prices and got confused.

That doesn't even make sense, why would I, an American, be looking at uk pound pricing on an American website?

It was $110 USD, discounted from a higher price (iirc $135 USD or $140). It was displayed with the original price struck through as are all other discounted items on their site. That base price has been increased and the discount removed now.

Gadzooks is the same, when the game was announced for preorder they had it listed at $135, then that increased to $150, and somewhere in September iirc that changed to $165.

Assuming wayland has them discounted then the current price has the same discount from retail. But honestly I'm just glad to have a place that I can buy them from.

Wayland doesn't have them discounted, Wayland is the manufacturer.

Gotcha. Either way Valhala isn't overcharging. At worst they're doing msrp. Which seems fine.

Gadzooks just had a small restock and is now marked UP 8% so it really highlights how much it will be an issue letting a couple small shops control the entire US stock... Gadzooks and Valhalla have kept raising prices with each small restock feels perilously close to price-fixing.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Gadzooks just had a small restock and is now marked UP 8% so it really highlights how much it will be an issue letting a couple small shops control the entire US stock... Gadzooks and Valhalla have kept raising prices with each small restock feels perilously close to price-fixing.

Again, Valhalla at least is just priced the same as MSRP. That's not price fixing. That's just not discounting. Probably because they have to order direct. Warcradle needs to find a US distributor.

Someone on fb posted that gadzooks isn't the distributor for the US anymore so maybe that has something to do with it?

I agree that there is the look of pricefixing or gouging here though. There's more demand than there is supply and basically 2 sites control all of it, and they are both progressively hiking prices in response to the limited availability.

Update: i have learned that Occam will now be handling distribution for warcradle in the US

Who's Occam? I'm not familiar with them. Hopefully they and Warcradle are equipped to handle a potential trade dumpster fire in 2025.

Apparently also owned by Wayland/Warcradle. Apparently they are establishing a US warehouse or something.

A new year means exciting new releases, and 2025 is no exception. Kicking things off are our exciting new January releases for Armoured Clash and Dystopian Wars.

Commonwealth players can add a new nation to their Dystopian Wars fleet as the Zamiec Battlefleet Set introduces Polish-Lithuanian aerial forces to the game. Also releasing in January is the Union Long Range Squadrons, offering support to any admiral looking for a long-range game plan.

Sticking with the Union, generals looking to add more units to their army can pick up the Lakota Battlegroup Set, Union Armoured Regiment, and Union Infantry Regiment. Customise your Federated States force with a selection of these boxes of reinforcements.

These are due to be released at the end of January 2025.



Armoured Clash

The Union are a force like no other. Priding themselves on the reliability of their weapons and technology, the Union deploy simple, mass-assembled arsenals.

Expand your Union troops in January 2025 with the new Armoured Clash Battlegroup Set and Regiments Boxes.



Lakota Battlegroup Set



The aging Great Powers have had their time, stagnating and stale. After the chaos of the Ore War, the Union has been reborn in fire and poised for expansion. Manifest Destiny awaits! This Lakota Battlegroup Set contains a Lakota Heavy Rail behemoth and a supply of infantry, ready to bombard the battlefield and decimate their enemies. This Behemoth is unique in its abilities compared to those of the Empire and the Crown, where each of its carriages has a speciality ready to be discovered and feared by the enemy.

This box contains:
1x Lakota Heavy Rail
6x Federal Trooper Platoon
4x Pacifier Heavy Infantry Platoon
4x Hotchkiss Revolving Cannon
2x Federal Gatling Fireteam
2x Federal Rocket Fireteam
2x UR-31E Arc Trooper Fireteam
5x Iron Horse Cavalry (may also be built as Blazer Heavy Cavalry)
2x Ironhide Transports (may also be built as Lamplighter Flame Trucks)

Union Armoured Regiment



This Armoured Clash Armoured Regiment box allows you to add more mechanised Units to your Union force.

This box contains:
2x Rolling Thunder Main Battle Tanks (may also be built as Kodiak Artillery Tank or Reaper Arc Tanks)
4x UR-45 Heavy Mechs (may also be built as UR-45E Arc Mechs)
5x UR-31E Iron Eagle Cavalry
2x Armstrong Heavy Artillery (may also be built as Moab Thermobaric Mortars)

Union Infantry Regiment



This Armoured Clash Infantry Regiment box gives you flexible additions to your Union collection.

This box contains:
6x Federal Trooper Platoon
4x Pacifier Heavy Infantry Platoon
4x Hotchkiss Revolving Cannon
2x Federal Gatling Fireteam
2x Federal Rocket Fireteam
2x UR-31E Arc Trooper Fireteam
5x Iron Horse Cavalry (may also be built as Blazer Heavy Cavalry)
2x Ironhide Transports (may also be built as Lamplighter Flame Trucks)

Dystopian Wars

Union troops expand not only on land but also at sea with the new Union Long Range Squadrons being added to the arsenal, while Commonwealth players can look forward to further air power to their Battlefleets.

Continue to update, or start your Dystopian Wars Battlefleets with the new releases in January 2025.



Zamiec Battlefleet Set



The Zamiec Battlefleet Set is a perfect way for a Commonwealth player to add Polish-Lithuanian air power to their Dystopian Wars force. The Zameic Skyfortress allows fighters to strike from the skies wherever the Commonwealth needs, Szpada fighters racing towards their target using speed to close range before the enemy can lock on.

This box contains:
1x Zamiec
2x Voivode (may also be built as Szlachta, Stanislaw or Jadwiga)
4x Smok
4x Escorts
4x SRS Tokens
4x Ground Assault Tokens

Union Long Range Squadrons



This Squadron Box for Dystopian Wars is perfect for reinforcing your Union fleet.

This box contains:
1x Midway Long Range Landing Ship (may also be built as Chicago Long Range Cruiser, Nashville Long Range Support Ship, Philadelphia Long Range Arc Cruiser, Wisconsin Long Range Assault Ship, Senator Command Cruiser)
2x Farragut Frigates
2x Puritan Submarine Automata
1x Akron Observation Rotor
1x Aerial Escort
1x Talon SRS Token
1x Ground Assault Token

You can pre-order all of these products at your FLGS or online at Wayland Games on the 31st of December 2024.

Stay up to date with the latest news and releases on our Facebook, Instagram, and X and on the Warcradle Studios Blog.

It's gonna be a good year to be... any faction!

<Deep breath>...... LAND TRAIN!...... <Deep Exhale>

The January releases are now available to pre-order!

Make sure to check out the Warcradle Studios Blog for more information.

Just a small point, I saw images or an ad for Armoured Clash somewhere and it took *far too long* for me to actually be able to determine it is the land forces game along side Dystopian Wars. I mean, I was 99pc sure but even going to the official website it was difficult to determine. But perhaps that's because I remember land forces previously existing under DW?

The legends were true, people can still make an actual roadmap if they want to

Waiting to see what the Imperium's like before pulling the trigger on a second faction.

I'm sure the A7V at least was spoiled already

Oh yea a little slideshow is here https://blog.warcradle.com/blog/whats-next-for-armoured-clash-warcradle-studios-2025-roadmap

Super-science populates the battlefield this month as the Enlightened’s merging of man and metal comes to Armoured Clash.

Cold, unfeeling constructs march onwards as the Enlightened are introduced into Armoured Clash this February. The Enlightened Faction Battlegroup Set and Introductory Set are perfect for those looking to harness the power of alien technology, with massive mechs and monstrous amalgamations striking fear into the heart of any opposing army.

Following last month’s introduction of Polish-Lithuanian units to Dystopian Wars, Commonwealth players can now add to their fleets with the Polish-Lithuanian Aerial Squadrons.

These new products are due to be released at the end of February 2025.



Armoured Clash

Enlightened Faction Battlegroup - Starter Set



The Enlightened Faction Battlegroup - Starter Set contains all you need to begin playing games of Armoured Clash, controlling a force for the Covenant of the Enlightened. At its heart is a Wells Super-Heavy Surveyor, the perfect battle platform for an Enlightened Conservator to see the battle unfold and lead it to victory. Its weapon, torn from the heart of Wells Chasm, is unlike anything else seen on the battlefields of the Dystopian Age. All sane generals fear its power.

Contents:
1x Wells Super-Heavy Surveyor (may also be built as Horsell Super-Heavy Extractor)
16x Citizen-Soldier Contingent
8x Brute Enforcer Cohort
8x Brute Warden Cohort
8x Heavy Construct Devastator Cohort
8x Hellion Cohort
10x Seeker Outrider Cohort
10x K9 Gun Dog Pack
8x Mono CAV Cohort
8x Strider CAV Cohort
4x Mars Battle Tripods (may also be built as Deimos Guardian Tripods or Phobos Assault Tripods)
4x Europa Artillery Crawlers (may also be built as Enceladus Mortar Crawlers or Callisto Assault Gatherers)
4x Sickle Gyro CAV Cohort
Dystopian Industrial Modular Terrain

Also included:
2x Dystopian Age Token Sheets
1x Rule Book
1x Command & Conquest Card Deck
24x Attack Dice
1x Measuring Tool & Objectives

Enlightened Introductory Set

[img]https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5791f4d720099efc0f76dd06/1737542591912-B308S45PNTLXBGU9VJQE/ARM100003+Enlightened+Introductory+Set_Group+Shot+%282%29.jpg?format=750w
[/img]

The Enlightened Introductory Set gives you a small glimpse into the Covenant of the Enlightened and their unusual weapons of war. Citizen-Soldiers march to war accompanied by protective Brute Wardens.

Contents:
1x Commander
8x Citizen-Soldier Contingent
4x Brute Enforcer Cohort
4x Brute Warden Cohort
4x Heavy Construct Devastator Cohort
4x Hellion Cohort
5x Seeker Outrider Cohort
5x K9 Gun Dog Pack
4x Mono CAV Cohort
4x Strider CAV Cohort
2x Mars Battle Tripods (may also be built as Deimos Guardian Tripods or Phobos Assault Tripods)
2x Europa Artillery Crawlers (may also be built as Enceladus Mortar Crawlers or Callisto Assault Gatherers)
2x Sickle Gyro CAV Cohort

Also included:
1x Armoured Clash - Quickstart Rules Booklet
2x Dystopian Age Token Sheets
12x Attack Dice
1x Measuring Tool & Objectives

Dystopian Wars

Polish-Lithuanian Aerial Squadrons



The Polish-Lithuanian Aerial Squadrons box is a great way for a Commonwealth player to add reinforcements to their aerial force.

Contents:
2x Voivode (may also be built as Szlachta, Stanislaw or Jadwiga)
2x Smok
2x Commonwealth Escort
2x Szpada SRS Token
2x Commonwealth Ground Assault Token

You can pre-order all of these products at your FLGS or online at Wayland Games on the 31st of January 2025.

Stay up to date with the latest news and releases on our Facebook, Instagram, and X and on the Warcradle Studios Blog.

The February releases are now available to pre-order!

Make sure to check out the Warcradle Studios Blog for more information.

Enlightened ORBAT for Armoured Clash is up: https://www.warcradle.com/assets/warcradleGames/armouredClash/factions/orbat/AC-ORBAT-Enlightened-Beta.pdf

I got a question on the average Dakka Dakka lurkers.

Dystopian Wars and Armoured class seem to do everything right. Awesome art, modern rules and plastic minis that look amazing!

Despite all that, their popularity don't seem to reflect the amount of work they have been doing. Not saying they are not popular but i would expect them to be massive.

Why do you think that is?

Speaking as someone who is very deep into Dystopian Wars and starting out with Armoured Clash:

Naval (and to a lesser degree epic scale) games are a lot less popular than 28mm mass combat.
Lack of Grimdark theming (Imo this is what really catapulted Trench Crusade into mass appeal)
Availability (It's gotten somewhat better now in the EU, but on average I get my stuff about a month after release. They're also setting up a US distribution hub to make things better there).

There's also the whole few people actually knowing about it. Most of their marketing seems to be going through OnTabletop (which really hasn't impressed) and some small UK creators, along with a couple of people in the community. They did have a Goonhammer article for Armoured Clash, but since then radio silence. There's also the whole "Oh Dystopian Wars? Didn't that die?" thought that's probably more well known than the game itself.

Lets face it a big part of the appeal of Trench Crusade is its grim-dark style which has instant appeal to 40K and Old World fans - both GW camps.

Basically any game that isn't branded by GW or an evolution of that has a hard time in the market because you're going in fresh and blind against a monster of 40 years marketing and successful business growth.

Model games are long-term investments for many people because they can take a good number of months/year to build up to a full painted force. People don't want a game that's hear today and gone tomorrow and they don't want to have to build 2 armies; run demo games; do promotional work and so forth at their local club just to get a game. Even if they are prepared to do that they might not know how to do it.

It's a challenge all games meet and it takes time to overcome them and grow steadily.


That is before we touch on the fact that, yeah, 28-32mm games often grow faster than other scales. Even within the monster that is GW, their Epic/ManOWar/Warmater games were always much slower/lower sellers than their core 28mm scale games.


My impression is that Dystopian Wars is undergoing steady and solid growth, its just not going through GW style mega-growth. So its getting there and its growing, expanding and developing. Don't forget Spartan got pretty big before they imploded and it took Warcradle a good few years to rebuild and get things going again so for the most part it was a total fresh start.



I think the youtube angle is also partly because of how the Algorithm works. Basically anything that isn't a "hot" topic or a "major" brand video can often get a harder time getting clicks and views. Which is why you often see 3rd party games under titles like "GW will DIE when this game is released" and so forth.
But in general content creators see dips in their metrics when doing other games which often means that the big names either avoid them entirely or charge a lot to get videos done for them. So you do tend to end up with fewer willing to work the other brands and then smaller no-name channels that are doing good but aren't going to snare 10000s of views.

Lots of folks also apparently have a disability where they can't get into games if there isn't a big ol' leader model they can directly project on, and this is hamstringing anything Epic-scale, naval, mechs etc.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Lots of folks also apparently have a disability where they can't get into games if there isn't a big ol' leader model they can directly project on, and this is hamstringing anything Epic-scale, naval, mechs etc.

True but I'd take it a step further than that simplistic view - lore matters

Both the content, style, presentation and access. It's one reason that GW keeps putting lore in their rulebook even though it bloats it; its why it keeps getting put in the codex; why they put lore snippets in their media and product releases and so forth.

I'd argue that smaller firms often struggle here; even if they have lore its often stuck in one staffer's head and they have loads of other duties to pull and work on outside of just writing out stories.
Then there's the issue of getting people to engage with it - even GW shifts BL books way slower than models and rules; hence why rules and lore get wrapped together as it goes from an optional side purchase to a critical core purchase for the gamers.

Named characters are also a big key part because even if the player isn't projecting onto them; they provide a reference point for them to latch onto and focus on and view the world through. They present a bit better than just endless narrators voice/accounts/descriptions of things. Those are important too; but characters are far more engaged with first.

Most people don't get into the background of Lord of the Rings by just reading the dry notes and structural elements of the world; they get into it by following Hobbits on adventures to slay dragons and destroy rings.


Personally I think that DWars are doing decently well with their lore, but that there's room to flesh it out more and more.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Lots of folks also apparently have a disability where they can't get into games if there isn't a big ol' leader model they can directly project on, and this is hamstringing anything Epic-scale, naval, mechs etc.

I feel called out here (and rightfully so )

I reckon it's also functional. 25/28mm models are easier to paint and as most games are in that scale, terrain can be used cross-system.

When I started playing smaller scale games, I don't think it was a coincidence that it was when three games of similar scale (Full Spectrum Dominance, LI and AC) came out around the same time meaning I only had to collect one set of terrain for all three.

 .Mikes. wrote:
I reckon it's also functional. 25/28mm models are easier to paint and as most games are in that scale, terrain can be used cross-system.

When I started playing smaller scale games, I don't think it was a coincidence that it was when three games of similar scale (Full Spectrum Dominance, LI and AC) came out around the same time meaning I only had to collect one set of terrain for all three.

That's a good point - I started looking at Conquest Last Argument recently and one of the things people said that turned them off the game is that the models are much larger than 28-32mm and thus all the terrain and such that they've got doesn't fit with them. Another was that the size also meant they couldn't be used in other games as well. Ergo if your niche game fails you can't then just proxy the models into a Warhammer 40K army or AoS etc...

Between 28-32mm (esp when you also factor in both real and hero scale) you can mostly interchange the terrain pretty happily for tabletop.



No of course this varies club ot club and some clubs have a lot of resources; meanwhile others or just friend groups can be far more restricted.