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2017/04/26 08:49:10
Subject: Wild West Exodus -New Releases - Updated 20th April 2017 (pg 3)
I've switched to a new account for further discussion regarding Warcradle and WWX to clearly define my thoughts as a staff member working on WWX vs me as a painter/gamer usually.
In terms of the changes to the game, there will always be those who loved the first edition and are concerned that we are doing lot of work to change up the game, and we do understand those concerns.
As I have said to multiple people now, I've been gaming well over 24 years now and have lived through edition and game changes since 2nd ed 40K/4th ed fantasy. Some have been great (Warmachine) some have horrified me (Confrontation) and some have felt terrible at the time, but have ended up becoming one of my most played games (AoS).
The design intent with the new edition of WWX is to make the game feel much the same as the first edition, but make it faster and easier to play, more balanced and dynamic and to make it as accessible to as many people as possible.
Ultimately, a complex gritty game that is only played by a few folks is sadly not a viable long term product.
Of course, no one is going to come to your house and steal/burn all your first edition books and cards, so if you truly hate what we have come up with (and we hope you will give it a try and find that while it may appear very different, at its core its still a hero lead small scale skirmish game set in an alternate vision of the old west), then you can continue to play first edition.
I play 2nd edition Epic when I want to play 6mm, and there is a fantastic community that has taken the game on and tweaked it to suit their needs, improving the classic game. No doubt there will be some of you who chose to do the same with WWX, and more power to you.
Still, I think second edition is shaping up to be an interesting beast of a game, with some usual mechanics that will hopefully help us stand out in the huge wealth of games that we all get to play with, living in the golden age of gaming that we do.
The public beta starts next month (unless something terrible happens!) so you will be able to download and read all the rules and stat cards (nothing is getting squatted!) and help us polish the final stages of development and get the game ready for launch towards the end of the year.
New folks seem to like what we have come up with so far, and many of the old guard have started to get into the feel of the game, after the initial shock of the new, so as long as you have an open mind and a willingness to give honest and constructive feedback (not necessarily positive!) then I think we can make this the game that the WWX model range always deserved.
Plus of course there are plenty of rather exciting minis coming very soon indeed.
2017/04/26 09:09:41
Subject: Re:Wild West Exodus -New Releases - Updated 20th April 2017 (pg 3)
Eh, since I never actually played the game, I am looking forward what a 2nd edition will bring. If it makes the whole thing easier to get into: excellent, that might get me playing at last.
Please do not get me wrong here: I loved WWX from the very first moment, and I still do. It simply is that I am much more into collecting, terrain and artwork than rules and gaming. And I feel like I'm getting too old for complex rulesets. I despise the changes AoS has brought to the background, miniatures and general approach to the game that once was Warhammer - but the idea that you only need a few pages of rules and can kick off is one totally appealing to me.
Having said that: bring it on! Some fanboy questions though...
Why redo the Wayward Eight? They are great the way they are, the models are plastic - what do I miss here? Will the "replacement" be plastic too? Will they get their "not-Shepherd Book"? Will they get a "not-Serenity" vehicle?
Will there be new terrain? As you might know: MAS has completed a second wave of WWX terrain months ago, sold the plans - to what was then still the old owner of WWX - and I wonder what has become of it. Will you guys work together with MAS? Also: nu terran please, kthxbye!
2017/04/26 09:19:46
Subject: Re:Wild West Exodus -New Releases - Updated 20th April 2017 (pg 3)
Why redo the Wayward Eight? They are great the way they are, the models are plastic - what do I miss here? Will the "replacement" be plastic too? Will they get their "not-Shepherd Book"? Will they get a "not-Serenity" vehicle?
Will there be new terrain? As you might know: MAS has completed a second wave of WWX terrain months ago, sold the plans - to what was then still the old owner of WWX - and I wonder what has become of it. Will you guys work together with MAS? Also: nu terran please, kthxbye!
Cheers for the comment Darnok.
I think if you like the world of WWX, that sure isn't changing too much. Now, there story is evolving for sure, and what I told people at Salute is that the 1st ed story is told from one perspective, most of what has gone before remains the same, but a few things are being showcased from a slightly different perspective. Its a bit like when someone tells a story, they embellish it and adapt it to their perspective, so the same story can feel totally different each time it is told. So, fluff/world remains much the same, game evolves slightly, but still has the same core feel and intent.
A few things may feel slightly different (e.g. the dark council is evolving slightly in term of its reach, as 1st ed felt a little like everyone was secretly working for the dark council, sometimes without knowing it), but the overall feel of the factions and their intent is much the same. Stu is heading up the project and has done a huge amount of research and writing, which I get to pick up about 15% of in our regular meetings and calls. So, there is a lot I still don't know, but what I heard I like, and it helped me finalise my decision to collect the Order, based pretty much on fluff and aesthetic alone.
In terms of my role, I'm doing games design, with a side order of events and community work based on my previous role as "guy who created and ran SmogCon", though it is an evolving role... so I am not the fluff guru, nor in charge of product design and direction. As such, I can't really comment on the upcoming products, other than to say there is a very good reason the Wayward Eight get a resculpt and if you saw the concept art that was on the walls of the Salute booth you can see how cool they look!
More scenery can only be a good thing of course, I have heard very early rumblings of things on the horizon, but its too early for me to say any more (sorry :( )
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/26 09:20:50
2017/04/26 09:31:47
Subject: Re:Wild West Exodus -New Releases - Updated 20th April 2017 (pg 3)
As such, I can't really comment on the upcoming products, other than to say there is a very good reason the Wayward Eight get a resculpt and if you saw the concept art that was on the walls of the Salute booth you can see how cool they look!
More scenery can only be a good thing of course, I have heard very early rumblings of things on the horizon, but its too early for me to say any more (sorry :( )
Are there any pictures online of this concept art?
As for the terrain: if you are an insider, you clearly should kick the appropriate asses to get things done sooner rather than later!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/26 09:33:37
2017/04/26 09:55:54
Subject: Re:Wild West Exodus -New Releases - Updated 20th April 2017 (pg 3)
As such, I can't really comment on the upcoming products, other than to say there is a very good reason the Wayward Eight get a resculpt and if you saw the concept art that was on the walls of the Salute booth you can see how cool they look!
More scenery can only be a good thing of course, I have heard very early rumblings of things on the horizon, but its too early for me to say any more (sorry :( )
Are there any pictures online of this concept art?
As for the terrain: if you are an insider, you clearly should kick the appropriate asses to get things done sooner rather than later!
I'm surprised that more photos didn't make their way on to the net, the stand was full of spoilers and teases in both miniature and art form if you kept your eyes open.
The two links below show the art for one of the new forces making their way to the old west at present (possibly in a giant submersible of some kind) and you can also see some of the concept art for the new Wayward Eight in the background of the other (along with my hand, and some of the minis I speed painted for the demo tables...)
Each activation, you flip a single activation card that has a value of between 1-4. This shows how many action points can be spent that activation.
You then pick a unit to activate (a unit can be one face, or a mob of hands for example).
The unit can take as many actions as it can afford to buy, up to its limit stat. There are a range of actions, such as move, shoot, strike, take cover and so forth.
An action costs 1 action point the first time you use it, and 2 or more thereafter (per activation of course).
Examples -
a unit of hands usually has a limit of 2 actions, it could move for one action, then shoot for a second action. Total = 2 action points. As such it would need to have flipped a 2 or more on its action deck card.
a unit of hands usually has a limit of 2 actions, it could move for one action, then move again for a second action point. Total = 3 action points. As such it would need to have flipped a 3 or more on its action deck card.
If you want to do more than you can afford, there is a mechanic to possibly allow it, but that's still top secret
Players alternate activating one unit at a time, though again, there is a way of doubling up and activating two units in some instances, though much like with the ability to do more than the card you flip, it comes at a price.
I can only talk about things we showcased at Salute at the moment, so there might be some specifics and mechanics not yet public, so feel free to ask anything, but be aware I may have to say no comment to some things.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/26 11:53:10
2017/04/26 12:05:30
Subject: Wild West Exodus -New Releases - Updated 20th April 2017 (pg 3)
Pugnacious_Cee wrote: Overhaul was 100% necessary. The original game was fun and all, but it was horrifically balanced and overly complex in its stats for individual models.
Lets agree to disagree.
I respect you too much to argue with you Pug. At least you were never part of the "Everything is Rainbows and Candy" crowd.
Here's to being able to play the game and not being afraid of saying the wrong thing and getting ostracized for it.
Like I said earlier I can't have an opinin about the new rules without reading and playing them
Thank you brother! I hope you at least remember me well enough to know my comments about the overhaul and things aren't spoken with an aggressive tone. Everyone always takes the things I say so angrily and it is really just the unfortunate truth that I am perhaps too direct, so people assume I'm trying to fight. But hey I'm so blocked from Dark Council facebook group that I'm not even allowed to see it! (and ironically I created the group myself...) Any help on that WarCradle? Can I at least be able to *look* at the new stuff?
Anyway, definitely excited by the new direction.
2017/04/26 12:08:31
Subject: Wild West Exodus -New Releases - Updated 20th April 2017 (pg 3)
Each activation, you flip a single activation card that has a value of between 1-4. This shows how many action points can be spent that activation.
You then pick a unit to activate (a unit can be one face, or a mob of hands for example).
The unit can take as many actions as it can afford to buy, up to its limit stat. There are a range of actions, such as move, shoot, strike, take cover and so forth.
An action costs 1 action point the first time you use it, and 2 or more thereafter (per activation of course).
Examples -
a unit of hands usually has a limit of 2 actions, it could move for one action, then shoot for a second action. Total = 2 action points. As such it would need to have flipped a 2 or more on its action deck card.
a unit of hands usually has a limit of 2 actions, it could move for one action, then move again for a second action point. Total = 3 action points. As such it would need to have flipped a 3 or more on its action deck card.
If you want to do more than you can afford, there is a mechanic to possibly allow it, but that's still top secret
Players alternate activating one unit at a time, though again, there is a way of doubling up and activating two units in some instances, though much like with the ability to do more than the card you flip, it comes at a price.
I can only talk about things we showcased at Salute at the moment, so there might be some specifics and mechanics not yet public, so feel free to ask anything, but be aware I may have to say no comment to some things.
This actually sounds incredible! Love the idea of an element of randomness, especially from a card deck, coming into play and forcing players to think on the fly. I would assume the system of back-and-forth unit activation goes until both sides have activated all units and then it is a new turn? What happens if one side is outnumbered? Is the amount of things you can activate limited, or will a player *always* be able to activate all of their models in a turn?
2017/04/26 12:56:24
Subject: Wild West Exodus -New Releases - Updated 20th April 2017 (pg 3)
I'm so blocked from Dark Council facebook group that I'm not even allowed to see it! (and ironically I created the group myself...) Any help on that WarCradle? Can I at least be able to *look* at the new stuff?
Can you drop me a PM to discuss, I'm not an admin for the group, but I will certainly try to get some clarity on that front and hopefully get you back in.
wow, interesting... thanks jonw.
since you alternate it should keep both people engaged more often. this is a plus in my book.
i still cant get over calling models faces though...lol
the only face i know of is from the A team!
Keeping both players actively invested during the turn was one of the core concepts. You even get to roll dice during your opponents turn (if they hit you with something nasty).
As for the faces, it basically works like this:
Boss - in charge of a posse. The best weapons, most fortune and the ability to avoid death (at the cost of some poor unfortunate underling standing nearby).
Faces - the named (usually) men and women closest and most trusted to the boss. They are "faces" as they are the named faces of the posse. They usually have cool weapons and abilities and some fortune...
Hands - the nameless deputies and fighters dragged in to service (or paid to be there). They are fairly basic but provide bulk to your force.
Support - the big guns. (Note, light support has tended to become hand units in the new edition)
With regard to the A Team, if they were a WWX posse, Hannibal would be the boss, Face (appropriately), Murdock and BA would be faces, and the folks they help out each week would be hands. I guess the van is support
This actually sounds incredible! Love the idea of an element of randomness, especially from a card deck, coming into play and forcing players to think on the fly. I would assume the system of back-and-forth unit activation goes until both sides have activated all units and then it is a new turn? What happens if one side is outnumbered? Is the amount of things you can activate limited, or will a player *always* be able to activate all of their models in a turn?
Yup, a sprinkle of randomness to keep things fresh and keep players on their toes (rather than carrying out the motions of a Rube Goldberg machine), but with a mechanic to allow control to be bought back at an opportunity cost was again something on the plans pretty much from the start. Currently, if one player runs out of activations, the other player continues to activate the remainder of their army, though this may change through playtest. Note, you draw your action card before deciding who to activate. This keeps things interesting as you might want to take a Boss action and do something cool, but flip a 1. Rather than be locked into the now weakened boss activation, you can instead either chose to do a lesser activation with something more disposable, or spend the second resource to add to your action limit.
Other key concepts, shooting, fighting, saving and so forth all use a D10 system, with a target number of 10 (so its easy to remember, I'm getting to old to have too many numbers flying around). Checks are made by rolling a D10, adding the relevant stat then adding or subtracting any applicable modifiers. We want people focussed on the game and engaged, not flipping through a rule book or looking at charts.
The big one... everything has one wound! But there are ways of avoiding death for faces and bosses. Currently it takes roughly 2-4 wounding hits to drop a boss, slightly less for a face. This roughly lines up with first edition. Its a bold change, that often catches people when they first hear it, but again, it makes the game flow nice and fast, and is easy to remember, without being unbalancing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/26 13:01:26
2017/04/26 13:08:28
Subject: Wild West Exodus -New Releases - Updated 20th April 2017 (pg 3)
Other key concepts, shooting, fighting, saving and so forth all use a D10 system, with a target number of 10 (so its easy to remember, I'm getting to old to have too many numbers flying around). Checks are made by rolling a D10, adding the relevant stat then adding or subtracting any applicable modifiers. We want people focussed on the game and engaged, not flipping through a rule book or looking at charts.
The big one... everything has one wound! But there are ways of avoiding death for faces and bosses. Currently it takes roughly 2-4 wounding hits to drop a boss, slightly less for a face. This roughly lines up with first edition. Its a bold change, that often catches people when they first hear it, but again, it makes the game flow nice and fast, and is easy to remember, without being unbalancing.
Simplicity is a virtue. Too much time in my life has been wasted consulting rulebooks for what should be simple interactions!
2017/04/26 13:15:30
Subject: Re:Wild West Exodus -New Releases - Updated 20th April 2017 (pg 3)
With regard to the A Team, if they were a WWX posse, Hannibal would be the boss, Face (appropriately), Murdock and BA would be faces, and the folks they help out each week would be hands. I guess the van is support
too funny. the van is definitely support.
with your explanation and now that i see that underbosses are gone it makes a little more sense.
damn i need to work on my terrain.
any idea how they're going to go about posting the beta rules and when... may can be a long month... do you want to send me a copy to hold for you so that i can help distribute it come May?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/26 13:16:13
2017/04/26 13:27:52
Subject: Wild West Exodus -New Releases - Updated 20th April 2017 (pg 3)
I do have to say that I like the larger art on the new cards. The new cards have a western deck of cards saloon look to them - awesome. I wish I could have been at salute or adeptacon to know how to read and underatand the cards.
Wayward eight being redone? Awesome. I'll get any minis, games, etc that has a firefly feel or parody to it. Can't wait to see the sculpts!!
Will we ever see the Peterson model sculpt from the last kickstarter that was never used (him standing with both swords aheathed)? I loved that model sculpt and was sad to see it never released.
IN ALAE MORTIS... On the wings of Death!!
2017/04/26 14:33:15
Subject: Re:Wild West Exodus -New Releases - Updated 26th April 2017 (pg 3)
At Salute, we unveiled the first of a series of new studio terrain boards. Each board will be themed to one of the factions in Wild West Exodus. The first, built by Rob Hawkins and which you can see in this video, is themed for the Hex.
cool... the not pentagram is definitely nice.
i also like the crying statues, very creepy.
i wonder what the floating eye was in the swamp... terrain or monster
too bad about the social media requirement for the free rulebook. i hate them and dont use them but can probably talk the wife into posting a pic for me.
2017/04/26 20:54:48
Subject: Wild West Exodus -New Releases - Updated 26th April 2017 (pg 3)
What I'm really hoping for is a continuation of the books. I devoured the books when thy first hit Kindle and have been waiting for them to pick up again
2017/04/27 15:14:03
Subject: Re:Wild West Exodus -New Releases - Updated 26th April 2017 (pg 3)
Looks familiar (and quite neat) but my memory is hazy at best.
Outlaw did not release them; not sure to what stage in development they reached before Warcradle took over. Warcradle has said the Seven will be part of a new 2-player boxed set released with second edition (I am guessing that will be in HIPS plastic). They had the 3D prints for them at Salute but it doesn't seem anyone took and posted any good photos online (yet).
2017/04/27 17:20:45
Subject: Wild West Exodus -New Releases - Updated 26th April 2017 (pg 3)
Alpharius wrote: So, they've released details on how to get your 'free' 2E softcover - dem's a lot of hoops to jump through, especially as I don't have a FLGS!
Sounds as if I'll want the full hardcover book anyway, but that 'free' softcover would've been nice too!
youre reading-fu is weak alpharius... somewhere in there they say they'll ship it directly to your house. i'm in the same boat that you are and was sad too but then i read that they will ship it to you direct.
found it...
3) Tag in your local gaming store where you would like to collect your book from (if you have one). No FLGS? No problem, we will send it directly to you.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/27 18:11:42
2017/04/27 18:23:54
Subject: Wild West Exodus -New Releases - Updated 26th April 2017 (pg 3)
Alpharius wrote: So, they've released details on how to get your 'free' 2E softcover - dem's a lot of hoops to jump through, especially as I don't have a FLGS!
Sounds as if I'll want the full hardcover book anyway, but that 'free' softcover would've been nice too!
youre reading-fu is weak alpharius... somewhere in there they say they'll ship it directly to your house. i'm in the same boat that you are and was sad too but then i read that they will ship it to you direct.
found it...
3) Tag in your local gaming store where you would like to collect your book from (if you have one). No FLGS? No problem, we will send it directly to you.
Oops!
Thanks for pointing that out though - I appreciate it!
-
2017/04/27 19:12:34
Subject: Re:Wild West Exodus -New Releases - Updated 26th April 2017 (pg 3)
While I'll probably buy the big hardback book anyway (assuming I like the new rule system during Beta testing), it would be nice to get the free softcover version, too. I'm kind of hoping they clarify exactly how the required photo of us with our 1st edition rulebook can be shared via social media. I'm not keen on posting it on my FB page, but don't mind sharing it in a PM or on one of the WWX pages.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/27 20:22:48
2017/04/27 21:28:41
Subject: Re:Wild West Exodus -New Releases - Updated 26th April 2017 (pg 3)
Just watched the remake of the magnificent seven... that deadly seven mini is awesome (not sure if its parody based or not).
Warcradle, any more deadly seven spoilers? I thought outlaw minis had resin masters cut for them, but there are no pics anywhere!!! The mini shown above looks awesome.
Have to say 2017 is looking like a good year with 8th edition, swa, and more WWX
