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I don't think more political correctness will save it. Consistently making good episodes again for long enough to restore its reputation should be the priority. Appealing to the PC left might encourage a bump in ratings by creating headlines, but then what?
Bringing back Tennant or even Smith as a new regeneration rather than in a multiple Doctors special would be a terrible idea. Not only does it cheapen their definitive endings but it also takes the show backwards, when the whole point of the regeneration is to move forward and take it to some new places. So far, we've had 4 totally unique and excellent portrayals in NewWho, we need someone new to continue that.
I've got my own shortlist of people I'd love to see take on the job (Sean Pertwee and Bertie Cavell are top of it, maybe Adrian Lester as well), but they need to make sure they get someone who can own that role like the others have above and beyond any consideration of ethnicity or gender or age or whatever. Tennant's run was fantastic not because he was younger and did the more romantic stuff, but because he acted the hell out of a wonderful take on the character. Likewise Capaldi, he's not brilliant because he's old or grumpy, he's brilliant because he's a superb actor that again does an amazing job.
The Doctor-Companion romance stuff is something I really hope we've seen the last of. It worked with Rose, it was tired by the next series when they tried it with Martha and by the time they had the whole Amy/Rory/Doctor triangle going on, it was just pointless. I think the entirely platonic relationship between Clara and 12 was more powerful, moving and tragic than anything else the show had done because it wasn't concerned with being a romantic sub-plot, and thus the focus could be on the natural dynamic between the characters without it being forced in a particular direction.
I am intrigued to see where series 10 goes... the new Companion has some big shoes to fill, and the writing team have their work cut out to follow series 9, which was great return to form after the mediocre 8... I really hope Capaldi can get a second brilliant series, he deserves it.
The whole point of regenerations was to explain swapping out actors. It does push things forwards, but it's not the original point.
As much as I like Capaldi, I can admit that Tennant and Smith have a broader appeal to women and children. Younger, more photogenic, and look less like crazy old guy.
Also, all of my favorite episodes have Tennant or Smith invovled.
Tennant's Doctor had reservations about a relationship with Rose because of his immortality.
Smith's Doctor fell for Amy, but was she was already in love with Rory.
Capaldi's Doctor is in love with Clara but didn't act upon it because he "looks" old enough to be her father ?
MIssy is good, Sonic Glasses are terrible, Clara was awesome.
Capaldi is good at the serious parts, and less so at the funny bits, Bill looks like a good pairing to provide comic relief.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/19 18:22:41
adamsouza wrote: The whole point of regenerations was to explain swapping out actors. It does push things forwards, but it's not the original point.
As much as I like Capaldi, I can admit that Tennant and Smith have a broader appeal to women and children. Younger, more photogenic, and look less like crazy old guy.
Also, all of my favorite episodes have Tennant or Smith invovled.
... ...
True, but a circular argument since the reason to swap actors is to push things forward, or at least to change them around and present a different personality and approach to the central role.
I don't disagree with you about Tennant and Smith, but it should be remembered that Dr Who operated with crazy old guys for the first three incarnations (Hartnell, Troughton and Pertwee.) The show was at the time aimed primarily at children, being broadcast at 6 p.m. after the Grandstand sports show on a Saturday.
But it's not the crazy old guy kid's show anymore, It's prime time Science Fiction now. Different audience, bigger budget, greater concern about rating and borader appeal.
No, it's still primarily a kids show, and I think a lot of the discontent stems from adult fans forgetting that fact.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Given the show has been more or less an utter shambles for the last few years I think it might be time to give it a rest for a year or two unless the new showrunner pulls some pretty spectacular rabbits from the hat
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED."
The doctor human romance needs to stop, Riversong needs to remain dead, I'd rather see her removed from existence. But alas, Missy was just weird and felt like a cop out to please the "why can't a woman be the doctor" crowd.
I miss the 1980s! And I wasn't even born then.
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Azreal13 wrote: No, it's still primarily a kids show, and I think a lot of the discontent stems from adult fans forgetting that fact.
Maybe in the UK.
In the US, the audience is adults. Dr. Who is in a Prime Time TV slot along with shows like Broadchurch and Orphan Black, and past seasons air on SyFy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/19 21:52:42
The quality of Dr who has been much of a muchness for the last few seasons. Now that SyFy actually has sci-fi on it again, I wouldn't mind if it - like Gerry Anderson's stuff -went bye-bye for good.
I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.
That is not dead which can eternal lie ...
... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
Azreal13 wrote: No, it's still primarily a kids show, and I think a lot of the discontent stems from adult fans forgetting that fact.
Maybe in the UK.
In the US, the audience is adults. Dr. Who is in a Prime Time TV slot along with shows like Broadchurch and Orphan Black, and past seasons air on SyFy.
It's still primarily a kids show, wherever it's being shown! That the US networks don't seem to have cottoned on to that fact is their error.
It's an early evening Saturday "family" time slot in the UK on the BBC and any repeats generally crop up padding out the afternoon schedules on one of the multiple UK channels that seem to exist solely to repeat old shows from other channels.
Perhaps there's a dissonance at work thanks to those scheduling differences then, because as "srs drama" it's laughable, except a handful of threads over all the series, but as a tea time light entertainment romp, it's perfectly acceptable.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
I get your reference Killcrazy, and I can see what your suggesting, but there is a disconnect that may be cultural.
Merlin and Doctor Who, while I admit are friendly for the whole family to view, are just not targeted at children in the US.
The networks they are broadcast on, the times they air, the advertisers that support them are just not aimed at children over here.
Think of how Doctor Who compares to Power Rangers in terms of story, plots that develop over the entire season, moral allegory, etc..
If it can't be resolved in 30 minutes, with a happy ending, it's probably not a kids show in the USA.
Now as a kid, I grew up watching Dr. Who on the one BBC channel we got, but my family wasn't typical. I also watched Benny Hill, Are You Being Served, and Red Dwarf, which are all very niche over here.
Let's go less with feelings and "true Scottsman" (or in this case true Dr. Who fan) and more by numbers. Is the new series pulling in the same numbers as other versions of the Doctor? More? Less? As with most things on TV viewership matters for lots of reasons. If Tennant and Smith had huge numbers but it dropped back to pre-cancelation numbers that may explain why a reboot is being considered.
Also while starting as a kids show to pretend that it still is a kids show one would have to be either willfully oblivious to simple reality or unconsciously oblivious. While for all ages, it is not, and has not been, primarily for children for quite some time.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/21 03:05:17
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Dr Who was originally an educational show with a Sci-fi theme.
The first companions were teachers, and were there to explain the goings-on to the audience. One week it was historical earth (Pompeii), the next week it was a moral dilemma on an alien planet (Ood).
This has continued with the recent companions, in their own ways.
The various spin-off series (Torchwood, etc) were to broaden the appeal, and focus more on the entertainment.
As for the current Whos, Capaldi doesn't seem to have found his right level. The Sonic Glasses have not worked, but the screwdriver had to go/change.
Romance has its place in a show like this, and a 900-odd alien has to get it somewhere. There's a time and a place though.
I keep trying to watch it but over the last few years come away every time disapointed but that might because I am old :(
It used to be a kids show - but it keeps trying too hard to pretend to be adult as well - and its not. Primevil was a much better kids/family show - Dr Who could not even make a Dinosaur fun in the last series I watched.
The Dr has become the most Mary Sue Mary Sue ever - its so tiresome
I hate River Song - every moment she is on screen - she is nearly as bad as Moriarty in Sherlock - Ugh
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/21 18:35:17
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
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Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
I don't know what it is about Doctor Who... I really enjoyed the first four new series and liked the fifth too, but it was about the end of the fifth and start of the sixth I started losing interest. I think maybe there'd been too many changes to the main duo, or I'd just had my fix of Doctor Who and it had become too predictable. Maybe it was becoming too camp, or too targeted to children, and maybe I'd just grown weary of the pacifism message and wanted the conflict, war and nihilism of the 40k universe.
I didn't like Clara at all, and never warmed to Amy or Matt Smith. I tried to watch it when Capaldi came in but I was always setting myself up for disappointment because all I wanted was his Thick Of It character to manifest and start swearing and bullying the sidekick, which would have been especially appealing because I disliked Clara so much
At this point I'd like to see John Simm's Master come back and win. In a dramatic end of series he can kill the sidekick, defeat Dr Who and the show can go away for two or three years while they figure out how to fix it
It was a kid show when it started, sure, but that was over half a century ago: things have changed a bit in that time. Mind you I'm not saying it is better, just that it has changed. I don't think it has been primarily a kids show for some time; even if we ignore the more recent series I don't think I would classify something like the Tom Baker period as primarily for kids. At some point it became more of a family friendly sci-fi than just children's programming, with varying degrees of success.
I watched a lot of the newer series starting with Chris Eccleston but by the time Capaldi become the Doctor I just haven't had much interest in it. I was wavering there near the end of Smith's go at it and by the time they changed to Capaldi I had moved on. It was interesting to see the War Doctor though.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
adamsouza wrote: I get your reference Killcrazy, and I can see what your suggesting, but there is a disconnect that may be cultural.
Merlin and Doctor Who, while I admit are friendly for the whole family to view, are just not targeted at children in the US.
The networks they are broadcast on, the times they air, the advertisers that support them are just not aimed at children over here.
Think of how Doctor Who compares to Power Rangers in terms of story, plots that develop over the entire season, moral allegory, etc..
If it can't be resolved in 30 minutes, with a happy ending, it's probably not a kids show in the USA.
Now as a kid, I grew up watching Dr. Who on the one BBC channel we got, but my family wasn't typical. I also watched Benny Hill, Are You Being Served, and Red Dwarf, which are all very niche over here.
Unfortunately the US channels have got their programming wrong, then.
Dr Who and Merlin are "family friendly" shows. What sets them apart from pure children's shows is their broadcast time, early Saturday and Sunday evenings, when the whole family can watch together.
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