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Pretty straightforward: Flying guys swoop forward T1 as far as they can and summon 30 Daemonettes (or other, if more appropriate) basically right on top of the opponent. On average 2 of the Heralds will roll for possession, and the charge pts are there to turn them into BTs

T2 and later it'll be 30-50 more daemons summoned right on top of the enemy, every turn.

On paper it looks really OP - Is it, though?

@HQ [ 5 ]

Kairos Fateweaver (300pt.) Staff of Tomorrow;


Herald of Tzeentch (95pt.) Mastery level 3;


Herald of Tzeentch (95pt.) Mastery level 3;


Herald of Tzeentch (95pt.) Mastery level 3;


Herald of Tzeentch (95pt.) Mastery level 3;

@Troops [ 6 ]

11x - Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (99pt.)
> 11x - Pink Horror (9pt.);


11x - Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (99pt.)
> 11x - Pink Horror (9pt.);


11x - Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (99pt.)
> 11x - Pink Horror (9pt.);


11x - Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (99pt.)
> 11x - Pink Horror (9pt.);


11x - Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (99pt.)
> 11x - Pink Horror (9pt.);


11x - Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (99pt.)
> 11x - Pink Horror (9pt.);

@Heavy support [ 2 ]

Daemon Prince (285pt.) Daemon of Tzeench; Daemonic flight; Mastery level 3;


Daemon Prince (285pt.) Daemon of Tzeench; Daemonic flight; Mastery level 3;

I would sacrifice a squad of horrors for paradox and some greater rewards on those dp's.

Otherwise looks pretty solid in terms of board control if you can get them summons off.

This list isn't op. In fact it's kinda bad. Pure daemon factory is a gimmick that ignores writing a functional list in the hopes that the free points from summoning will overwhelm the opponent but it does 0 damage. If you look at just the list the only damage you have is the DPs who will die fast with no armor and FW if he casts with fires instead of summoning. The problem with the summoned units is they are melee only units that deep strikes so can't do damage for a whole turn and are paper for durability. So most summoned units are wiped out or down to very few models and will do no notable damage. Even summoned blood thirsters she aren't hard to shoot down in a turn. Your are also super reliant on going first because your opponent going first will give him the chance to kill psykers and reduce your summoning greatly or can spread out along the table denying you space you need to place summoned units.

It will defeat soft lists fine but it doesn't have the ability to deal with actual good lists

I second the suggestion of dropping 1 horror unit for Greater Rewards on the DPs and a Paradox on Herald. I might even go so far as to drop a second unit so that all your Heralds can have Discs. That speed will help in objective games.

Your DPs will be doing some heavy lifting in this list since they are the only unit you have that can do damage. You need to protect them.

I would also not rely on summoning Daemonettes although they are a good choice. Hounds are also a great choice as are Plague Drones.

CrownAxe: I get where you're coming from, but fundamentally disagree on several points. The FMCs will all be swooping, this should make them harder to kill. The Heralds should be deployed out of LoS. After the first round of summoning, I most firepower won't be available to whittle down the horrors.

I think this really comes down to volume of opponent's firepower. Certainly a Necron list with 4 Ghost arcs full of warriors won't sweat the matchup. Let's say we were to forego the GDs in lieu of retaining max charge pts, you can count on summoning 50 Daemonettes a turn. With a 5+ save save that means you need 75 wounds to kill them all.

If you do the math all the way out, assuming a S4 weapon from a BS4 model, you need about 170 shots to clear all 50 daemonettes. Most lists won't even come close to that, which means units that did fire on T2, will be stuck in H2H next time around, and the imbalance will continue....

I'm not saying that I think this list is gold... what I'm saying is that I don't understand why/how you'd dismiss it out of hand - the reasons you state don't seem to hold up to scrutiny.

I am sincerely interested in what would make this list fail/how to improve the idea.

It really isn't good.

If you really want to commit to that many Horrors, it's seriously worth considering the Warpflame Host instead. The Tzeentch Primaris suddenly goes from a pile of S5 shots to a pile of S7 shots, and you now have a semi-reliable source of ranged anti-tank. Even with short range heavy, an 18" bubble of S10 shots is threatening.

 Galef wrote:
I Your DPs will be doing some heavy lifting in this list since they are the only unit you have that can do damage. You need to protect them. I would also not rely on summoning Daemonettes although they are a good choice. Hounds are also a great choice as are Plague Drones.

Total agreement on all counts here. Variety in what's summoned will be critical, and high AV vehicles or any armor saturation list will be a problem. I imagine serpent spam would laugh at this list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
It really isn't good.

tbph I wasn't thinking about facing off against armor saturation when I wrote the list - and it really would be a problem. The number of horrors wasn't about a "commitment to running that many horrors" the goal is to summon as many units as possible every turn. If there's a better way to generate charge points, then that'd be a better thing to do. I think the structure of a warpflame host wouldn't work because heralds aren't on the HQ list.

Additionally, in a functional sense, it might do well to lose some summoning power in favor of balance with units that actually do more killing from T1.... I meant this as a concept list for maximum summoning.

Summoning lists always seem like a good idea until you realize that your opponent is also playing the game in the sense that he will kill stuff, and if all you're doing is summoning units you will not kill stuff.

Even in terms of max summoning this list isn't that good.

Versus a shooting list it will likely go like this:
If you go first, great, you can get off your two possessions and a couple summons.
If you go second your opponent will either re-position to shoot your heralds (with possession) to death, or will have ways to kill them without line of sight.
Alternatively, your opponent kills 6 horrors (albeit in 6 different units, but they're T3 with a 5+ save, a sneeze will kill them) and suddenly you're out 6 WC dice. Kill two heralds on top of that and you've lost almost half your WC dice on the first turn.

Versus a deathstar you won't be able to kill anything if he gets off his necessary powers. Then it will come down to can you hold objectives with your MSU before he mulches your army and the game ends.

My suggestions:
It could be a pretty decent list.
1. Take paradox. It reduces a successful summon from ~7-9 dice down to 5, this is good, you want this.
2. Reconsider your flying creatures. They won't provide as much threat as you think they will.
3. Consider a screamer star with grimoire disk herald, additionally buffed by flying fatey, this will actually provide a fast midfield threat that doesn't die and puts pressure on your opponent
4. Then fill out the list with all your summoning goodness, summoning is great because you can bring in a needed unit for a task (and also the potential for greater daemons as well as herald spam).


Lastly, if you really wanna summon daemons, the guard psykana division does it best. (oh the heresy)