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Roknar wrote: True or not, I don't think it's unlikely at all for the lion to return and if wrath of Magnus is any indication, he would come with a campaign book of goodies.
All I'm praying for is that they turn 40k into a threeway battle with the return of the primarchs. They weren't terribly amused about the high lords of terra even way back when. For a cluesless primarch to return right now and look at the imperium, it would look an awful lot like Horus was right after all. Of course looking at the misshapen abominations that so many legionnaires have become, not to mention being mindless slaves to their gods, they might think that serving the chaos gods might not be the solution either lol
Normally I am not a fan of the whole Primarch concept because its a bit too hero focused and relegates the common man (including all the elite things like space marines, nobz, lychguard, etc) to being irrelevant. That said if we get a renegade side with Konrad Curze having faked his death to be the Primarch version of batman against both sides then ill at least be interested in seeing how things develop
"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise"
BoomWolf wrote: Yodhrin, you made one mistake in your analysis.
Unlike 30k, is not just IoM vs chaos. There are other players involved, some as small as the tau, others as massive as the necron and nids.
The primes alone, do not make the story any more, as they got competitors all over the place, and not everyone is playing the same game.
Really?? Any Primarch will facesmash the Tau, they have NOTHING to stand against them. They had a very tenuous existence considering any large scale conflict could just wipe them out. Even Farsight would fold very fast.
The Necrons, unless the Silent king returns and unites them again, I don't see them standing up to the IoM for long if Super Duper Primarchs return.
Orcs probably will be about, and the Eldar? A crusade against any Wraithworld and it is Toast. Dark Eldar, might survive, might unless Khan stomps them from within.
The Primarchs in 40k is what they did with fantasy with End times regardless of the shiny models we may get.
While it won't be as big as AoS wiping fantasy clean, it's going to be bad. Very bad.
And it's begun.
S.Y.
Will be looking very forward to your exiting of the game then, since it causes you so much anguish
The joy of fantasy and sci fi is that everything and anything can happen.
"Primarchs will smash *"
If you think that on the gaming table it would be that easy, you are sadly mistaken and as far as lore goes there is a never ending range of ways to tie things down or balance them.
The world evolves as do the races and the characters.
I get it, you have bought in and have been drinking the Flavor Aid that rumor mongers have been feeding even though none of the credible ones have said anything to support what you are saying and you are scared.
No reason to be up in everyone else's grill about it.
I think I have a right to be scared when a single model can determine the fate of a game, and you need to counter it with an equally powerful figure. that doesn't seem to fit the theme of 40k compared to 30k. Will i be required to take x or y just to counter big poppa Magnus or whomever. Or even worse Ally with somebody who can?
30k was about titanic individuals fighting against each other like the legends of Hercules or Perseus. 40k was about your, army your leader if that becomes a kind of warmmachine 30k hybrid thats not the game I signed up for is it?
if you dont think Primarchs wont smash literally half your opponents force then yeah, okay! I overreacted. But if they don't why bother? will Draigo Get a superboost as hes supossed to be able to go toe to toe with them if not, They are kinda weak for demigods.
Angron was only for Apoc games. Knights you can ago are kinda Lords of war, but you can field an army of them, if faced them its a face roll army. Its Power creep... flyers okay i see ill just have an ati air unit... now bigger n bigger.... I already needed a ridiculous amount of Kits just to be able to handle the Landraider spam I face weekly. If they add Demigod like things what separates it from 30k? a few weapon profiles?, the odd rule?
I'm talking as a Chaos player, (perhaps the most ignored of the 4 major cult players but still) I don't want the Primarch of the EC. Am I happy about the TS stuff? yes absolutely, i'll be jumping in.
Im not going to leave. but I dont want 40k to be AoS 2.0
S.Y.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gamgee wrote: Also for the record people in the 40k community call it the end times, but it's not the end times. Very reliable rumor mongers have said the setting will not detonate and be restarted like 99.9999% accuracy rating rumor folks.
It's a large lore advancement but it won't see the universe blown up like age of sigmar. It's just easier saying end times than advancing times.
BoomWolf wrote: Yodhrin, you made one mistake in your analysis.
Unlike 30k, is not just IoM vs chaos. There are other players involved, some as small as the tau, others as massive as the necron and nids.
The primes alone, do not make the story any more, as they got competitors all over the place, and not everyone is playing the same game.
Really?? Any Primarch will facesmash the Tau, they have NOTHING to stand against them. They had a very tenuous existence considering any large scale conflict could just wipe them out. Even Farsight would fold very fast.
The Necrons, unless the Silent king returns and unites them again, I don't see them standing up to the IoM for long if Super Duper Primarchs return.
Orcs probably will be about, and the Eldar? A crusade against any Wraithworld and it is Toast. Dark Eldar, might survive, might unless Khan stomps them from within.
The Primarchs in 40k is what they did with fantasy with End times regardless of the shiny models we may get.
While it won't be as big as AoS wiping fantasy clean, it's going to be bad. Very bad.
And it's begun.
S.Y.
What do you think the Xenos races are going to do during the end times? Regress? Lose models? Cease existing? Not participate? They are very much apart of these ends times. Much like in age of sigmar where all the factions had something cool and interesting going on all the factions here have something interesting (and all got cool models). I don't expect any faction to be farting rainbows either it's going to be dark and tough times all around for the 40k protagonist factions. They'll likely all get stuff to match a primarch even if it's not directly a primarch.
I think they will be folded probably like what happened to warhammer on the worst case. On the best Possibly some HUUGEEE uber kit you need to compete even at a friendly level. If people thing going from a Personalized army to a characters one is fine. okay enjoy your 30kAoS/warmachine hybrid
S.Y.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/22 14:42:54
Roknar wrote: True or not, I don't think it's unlikely at all for the lion to return and if wrath of Magnus is any indication, he would come with a campaign book of goodies.
All I'm praying for is that they turn 40k into a threeway battle with the return of the primarchs. They weren't terribly amused about the high lords of terra even way back when. For a cluesless primarch to return right now and look at the imperium, it would look an awful lot like Horus was right after all. Of course looking at the misshapen abominations that so many legionnaires have become, not to mention being mindless slaves to their gods, they might think that serving the chaos gods might not be the solution either lol
Normally I am not a fan of the whole Primarch concept because its a bit too hero focused and relegates the common man (including all the elite things like space marines, nobz, lychguard, etc) to being irrelevant. That said if we get a renegade side with Konrad Curze having faked his death to be the Primarch version of batman against both sides then ill at least be interested in seeing how things develop
Plus it would move on the story while at the same time creating another stalemate. Renegade primarchs wouldn't have the resources to seriously threaten either the imperium or traitor marines, but they sure could cause a lot of damage.
I don't see how a primarch could be a greater thread to any xenos race than an Emperor class titan for example. Do you really think they could easily shrug-off a barrage of Stormsurge D-missiles?
Also, with the 13th Black Crusade now starting they won't have time do deal with the High Lords. So I really don't see the Universe breaking effects others fear.
Ragnar69 wrote: I don't see how a primarch could be a greater thread to any xenos race than an Emperor class titan for example. Do you really think they could easily shrug-off a barrage of Stormsurge D-missiles?
Also, with the 13th Black Crusade now starting they won't have time do deal with the High Lords. So I really don't see the Universe breaking effects others fear.
Its bad though when your required to take that. Just to compete. I expect Farsight to get a Heroic form though.
If Gulliman comes back hes defacto leader of the Imperium. Meaning the Ultramarines RUN the Imperium Unless they wake dad up.
By all accounts, the 100 worlds of the Ultramarine Empire is one of the smoothest operating, efficient, safe, and prosperous places in the shithole that is the Imperium.
Why the feth wouldn't I want them running the show?
I want to be a citizen of their fething worlds, not the high lords of Terra.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/22 15:10:53
Ragnar69 wrote: I don't see how a primarch could be a greater thread to any xenos race than an Emperor class titan for example. Do you really think they could easily shrug-off a barrage of Stormsurge D-missiles?
Also, with the 13th Black Crusade now starting they won't have time do deal with the High Lords. So I really don't see the Universe breaking effects others fear.
Its bad though when your required to take that. Just to compete. I expect Farsight to get a Heroic form though.
If Gulliman comes back hes defacto leader of the Imperium. Meaning the Ultramarines RUN the Imperium Unless they wake dad up.
If you are fine with that. okie dokie.
S.Y.
In-universe power level != tabletop power level. Magnus is a massive Daemon Prince and I expect him to not be a "need to take" model, personally.
If we were going off of that, then why would you ever play a game with Fateweaver in it? He can see the future and is the most powerful wizard ever short of Tzeentch. But... he's there, and he's not gamebreakingly powerful (not compared to anything else out there, anyway). He's easily as strong or stronger than a Primarch. Skarbrand as well, if you want to get into it.
Primarchs coming back aren't going to break the background. Stop fearmongering and doomsaying.
Ragnar69 wrote: I don't see how a primarch could be a greater thread to any xenos race than an Emperor class titan for example. Do you really think they could easily shrug-off a barrage of Stormsurge D-missiles?
Also, with the 13th Black Crusade now starting they won't have time do deal with the High Lords. So I really don't see the Universe breaking effects others fear.
Its bad though when your required to take that. Just to compete. I expect Farsight to get a Heroic form though.
If Gulliman comes back hes defacto leader of the Imperium. Meaning the Ultramarines RUN the Imperium Unless they wake dad up.
If you are fine with that. okie dokie.
S.Y.
You are already forced to take stuff to compete. Sure, facing a primarch unprepared sucks. But not more than facing 5 Knights or 60 scatbikes. 40k is already highly unbalanced, a few more models won't change that a bit.
If Guiliman would come back, it would take him decades or even centuries to take over the leadership of the Imperium even if nobody would resist him, just because it is so huge.
Ragnar69 wrote: I don't see how a primarch could be a greater thread to any xenos race than an Emperor class titan for example. Do you really think they could easily shrug-off a barrage of Stormsurge D-missiles?
Also, with the 13th Black Crusade now starting they won't have time do deal with the High Lords. So I really don't see the Universe breaking effects others fear.
Its bad though when your required to take that. Just to compete. I expect Farsight to get a Heroic form though.
If Gulliman comes back hes defacto leader of the Imperium. Meaning the Ultramarines RUN the Imperium Unless they wake dad up.
If you are fine with that. okie dokie.
S.Y.
In-universe power level != tabletop power level. Magnus is a massive Daemon Prince and I expect him to not be a "need to take" model, personally.
If we were going off of that, then why would you ever play a game with Fateweaver in it? He can see the future and is the most powerful wizard ever short of Tzeentch. But... he's there, and he's not gamebreakingly powerful (not compared to anything else out there, anyway). He's easily as strong or stronger than a Primarch. Skarbrand as well, if you want to get into it.
Primarchs coming back aren't going to break the background. Stop fearmongering and doomsaying.
You know people were saying the exact same thing about the End Times in Warhammer look how that turned out.... I understood why they did it but if 40k sells so well why??
I don't take characters period. To me they are cool figures to paint but in game I prefer not to use them. No tell a lie I used Grom the Paunch once, reinacting the battle of the invasion.
Primarchs belong in 30k not 40k. How is it fearmongering to say this would fundamentally change the state of playing the game and the background of it also when it totally will?
Ragnar69 wrote: I don't see how a primarch could be a greater thread to any xenos race than an Emperor class titan for example. Do you really think they could easily shrug-off a barrage of Stormsurge D-missiles?
Also, with the 13th Black Crusade now starting they won't have time do deal with the High Lords. So I really don't see the Universe breaking effects others fear.
Its bad though when your required to take that. Just to compete. I expect Farsight to get a Heroic form though.
If Gulliman comes back hes defacto leader of the Imperium. Meaning the Ultramarines RUN the Imperium Unless they wake dad up.
If you are fine with that. okie dokie.
S.Y.
You are already forced to take stuff to compete. Sure, facing a primarch unprepared sucks. But not more than facing 5 Knights or 60 scatbikes. 40k is already highly unbalanced, a few more models won't change that a bit.
If Guiliman would come back, it would take him decades or even centuries to take over the leadership of the Imperium even if nobody would resist him, just because it is so huge.
You do know technically he still has a seat in the high Lord's right?
Wouldn't be that long as he's sooooo good at everything.
While I may grumble at sacrificing some of my armies theme for a Large model killer, ill need to take an uber hero too?
Please No
S.y.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/22 15:37:06
The fearmongering about Primarchs coming back needs to stop
regardless of how you feel about them, Im willing to bet 40k would be no where near as popular if it wasn't for the 30k era/Horus Heresy/Primarchs....people want to see these superhumans back
LightKing wrote: The fearmongering about Primarchs coming back needs to stop
regardless of how you feel about them, Im willing to bet 40k would be no where near as popular if it wasn't for the 30k era/Horus Heresy/Primarchs....people want to see these superhumans back
That's a very good point. And there's a game for exactly that. 30k.
In fact I'm willing to bet pre heresy Magnus will be cheaper than the DP version.
S.Y.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vash108 wrote: There would more than likely be friction between Lion and Guiliman about the state of affairs and how to proceed.
I wonder what each of them would say with how the Imperium is run and just the general state of things.
The Lion would probably wait like he did before. He's probably the least Damaging of the Primarchs Imperial side to do anything massively plot influence wise.
S.Y.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/22 15:56:27
Looking at the 30k points values for Primarchs, they are roughly the cost of a Knight, even Horus. I can't see anything overly game-breaking happening with Primarchs that wouldn't already have happened with Knights.
6000 pts
2000 pts
2500 pts
3000 pts
"We're on an express elevator to hell - goin' down!"
"Depends on the service being refused. It should be fine to refuse to make a porn star a dildo shaped cake that they wanted to use in a wedding themed porn..."
You know people were saying the exact same thing about the End Times in Warhammer look how that turned out.... I understood why they did it but if 40k sells so well why??
Apples to oranges. EVERY reliable rumormonger has said that 40k is just moving forward and not exploding like Fantasy did. And many people like big events and campaigns. More material to read and consume is a good thing for consumers.
I don't take characters period. To me they are cool figures to paint but in game I prefer not to use them. No tell a lie I used Grom the Paunch once, reinacting the battle of the invasion.
Cool. Thousands (millions?) of players still do.
Primarchs belong in 30k not 40k.
That's complete opinion, and one that the people captaining the ship don't agree with.
How is it fearmongering to say this would fundamentally change the state of playing the game and the background of it also when it totally will?
It's fearmongering to say things like:
"While it won't be as big as AoS wiping fantasy clean, it's going to be bad. Very bad."
"a single model can determine the fate of a game"
"Its bad though when your required to take that. Just to compete."
In comparison, Primarchs aren't any more worldbreaking than Fateweaver, Skarbrand, Eldrad, or The Beast (which Ghazkull is supposed to become the successor to).
LightKing wrote: The fearmongering about Primarchs coming back needs to stop
regardless of how you feel about them, Im willing to bet 40k would be no where near as popular if it wasn't for the 30k era/Horus Heresy/Primarchs....people want to see these superhumans back
That's a very good point. And there's a game for exactly that. 30k.
In fact I'm willing to bet pre heresy Magnus will be cheaper than the DP version.
S.Y.
.
Ooops, nevermind, probably talking about points, not $$$
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/22 15:59:45
"Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth! These are the truths of this world! Surrender to these truths, you pigs in human clothing!" - Satsuki Kiryuin, Kill la Kill
You know people were saying the exact same thing about the End Times in Warhammer look how that turned out.... I understood why they did it but if 40k sells so well why??
Apples to oranges. EVERY reliable rumormonger has said that 40k is just moving forward and not exploding like Fantasy did. And many people like big events and campaigns. More material to read and consume is a good thing for consumers.
I don't take characters period. To me they are cool figures to paint but in game I prefer not to use them. No tell a lie I used Grom the Paunch once, reinacting the battle of the invasion.
Cool. Thousands (millions?) of players still do.
Primarchs belong in 30k not 40k.
That's complete opinion, and one that the people captaining the ship don't agree with.
How is it fearmongering to say this would fundamentally change the state of playing the game and the background of it also when it totally will?
It's fearmongering to say things like:
"While it won't be as big as AoS wiping fantasy clean, it's going to be bad. Very bad."
"a single model can determine the fate of a game"
"Its bad though when your required to take that. Just to compete."
In comparison, Primarchs aren't any more worldbreaking than Fateweaver, Skarbrand, Eldrad, or The Beast (which Ghazkull is supposed to become the successor to).
How is opinion to say that a game about Troy should have Achilles where as a game about modern Greece shouldn't bad?
It's not what the game was its a fundamental change you have to admit that.
While some may call it fear mongering I think people need to be prepared to how gamebreaking they are going to be Plot and gameplay wise. It is going to be bad considering how they handled previous attempts of moving the plot forward.
AoS could exactly be called that moving the plot forward as after all Archon is still kicking as is Nagash. But not if you play Bretonians or Tomb Kings. I'm expecting something to get cut. And that is bad. It is.
You know I'm all for Campaigns as long as they don't alter the base game. Storm of Chaos was a perfect example.
Slayer armies were better suited against armies in that book or are completely broken rules filled with just masses of Elite units fine against armies that had zip to compete? But not everyone wants to be forced to play Storm of Chaos. That is what primachs will do.
Would you let someone take a War of the Beard Elf army against anything other than itself or the opposing Dwarf one? It's extremely powerful compared to others.
We will see won't we if we're forced into Primarchammer. Which I have a feeling we will be and I don't want that. If you do good fine I'm happy for you.
S.Y.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/22 16:28:19
Read this from Crimson: "GW already made an entire game to cater to people who want to use Primarchs. Why do we need them in 40K too? They obviously fit in 30K but they utterly ruin the theme of 40K."
Crimson specifically talking about the GAME of 30k is where Primarchs should stay and that Primarchs in the GAME of 40k ruins his theme.
Yes, THEME! I was talking about fluff. The fluff of the game is part of the game. I have no problem with powerful models per se, I think Daemon Primarchs getting models is cool.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
unmercifulconker wrote: Checked on Adeptus Astartes and he posted this, is this where the rumour came from? I dunno what im supposed to believe.
Shame, was really liking those rumours.
Oh thank you!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
kronk wrote: By all accounts, the 100 worlds of the Ultramarine Empire is one of the smoothest operating, efficient, safe, and prosperous places in the shithole that is the Imperium.
Why the feth wouldn't I want them running the show?
I want to be a citizen of their fething worlds, not the high lords of Terra.
Because a huge part of 40K's appeal is that Imperium is a dystopia.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/22 16:27:14
Roknar wrote: True or not, I don't think it's unlikely at all for the lion to return and if wrath of Magnus is any indication, he would come with a campaign book of goodies.
All I'm praying for is that they turn 40k into a threeway battle with the return of the primarchs. They weren't terribly amused about the high lords of terra even way back when. For a cluesless primarch to return right now and look at the imperium, it would look an awful lot like Horus was right after all. Of course looking at the misshapen abominations that so many legionnaires have become, not to mention being mindless slaves to their gods, they might think that serving the chaos gods might not be the solution either lol
Normally I am not a fan of the whole Primarch concept because its a bit too hero focused and relegates the common man (including all the elite things like space marines, nobz, lychguard, etc) to being irrelevant. That said if we get a renegade side with Konrad Curze having faked his death to be the Primarch version of batman against both sides then ill at least be interested in seeing how things develop
But this is true in real life as well. You never know the names of the squad that died saving a detachment of men held under fire by the enemy. You hear of the officer who lead them. Or in the rare case of a Medal of Honor, you hear of the individual who did a heroic feat (hero-hammer) and made a name for himself.
StupidYellow... of course a primarch should be able to smash half an army. They'll likely cost as much as half an army.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/22 16:29:11
This is becoming irritating as all get out. People keep making this crap up and then acting surprised when it gets "shared by rumor sites". You post it on forums or groups or whereever, members share it (not necessarily knowing it was "made up") and then it spreads...
Read this from Crimson: "GW already made an entire game to cater to people who want to use Primarchs. Why do we need them in 40K too? They obviously fit in 30K but they utterly ruin the theme of 40K."
Crimson specifically talking about the GAME of 30k is where Primarchs should stay and that Primarchs in the GAME of 40k ruins his theme.
Yes, THEME! I was talking about fluff. The fluff of the game is part of the game. I have no problem with powerful models per se, I think Daemon Primarchs getting models is cool.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
unmercifulconker wrote: Checked on Adeptus Astartes and he posted this, is this where the rumour came from? I dunno what im supposed to believe.
Shame, was really liking those rumours.
Oh thank you!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
kronk wrote: By all accounts, the 100 worlds of the Ultramarine Empire is one of the smoothest operating, efficient, safe, and prosperous places in the shithole that is the Imperium.
Why the feth wouldn't I want them running the show?
I want to be a citizen of their fething worlds, not the high lords of Terra.
Because a huge part of 40K's appeal is that Imperium is a dystopia.
Ragnar69 wrote: I don't see how a primarch could be a greater thread to any xenos race than an Emperor class titan for example. Do you really think they could easily shrug-off a barrage of Stormsurge D-missiles?
Also, with the 13th Black Crusade now starting they won't have time do deal with the High Lords. So I really don't see the Universe breaking effects others fear.
Its bad though when your required to take that. Just to compete. I expect Farsight to get a Heroic form though.
If Gulliman comes back hes defacto leader of the Imperium. Meaning the Ultramarines RUN the Imperium Unless they wake dad up.
If you are fine with that. okie dokie.
S.Y.
In-universe power level != tabletop power level. Magnus is a massive Daemon Prince and I expect him to not be a "need to take" model, personally.
If we were going off of that, then why would you ever play a game with Fateweaver in it? He can see the future and is the most powerful wizard ever short of Tzeentch. But... he's there, and he's not gamebreakingly powerful (not compared to anything else out there, anyway). He's easily as strong or stronger than a Primarch. Skarbrand as well, if you want to get into it.
Primarchs coming back aren't going to break the background. Stop fearmongering and doomsaying.
But, but! Imperial Knights and Wraith Knights were promised to break the game too! They were going to be the end of all fair play!
You know people were saying the exact same thing about the End Times in Warhammer look how that turned out.... I understood why they did it but if 40k sells so well why??
Apples to oranges. EVERY reliable rumormonger has said that 40k is just moving forward and not exploding like Fantasy did. And many people like big events and campaigns. More material to read and consume is a good thing for consumers.
I don't take characters period. To me they are cool figures to paint but in game I prefer not to use them. No tell a lie I used Grom the Paunch once, reinacting the battle of the invasion.
Cool. Thousands (millions?) of players still do.
Primarchs belong in 30k not 40k.
That's complete opinion, and one that the people captaining the ship don't agree with.
How is it fearmongering to say this would fundamentally change the state of playing the game and the background of it also when it totally will?
It's fearmongering to say things like:
"While it won't be as big as AoS wiping fantasy clean, it's going to be bad. Very bad."
"a single model can determine the fate of a game"
"Its bad though when your required to take that. Just to compete."
In comparison, Primarchs aren't any more worldbreaking than Fateweaver, Skarbrand, Eldrad, or The Beast (which Ghazkull is supposed to become the successor to).
How is opinion to say that a game about Troy should have Achilles where as a game about modern Greece shouldn't bad?
It's not what the game was its a fundamental change you have to admit that.
While some may call it fear mongering I think people need to be prepared to how gamebreaking they are going to be Plot and gameplay wise. It is going to be bad considering how they handled previous attempts of moving the plot forward.
AoS could exactly be called that moving the plot forward as after all Archon is still kicking as is Nagash. But not if you play Bretonians or Tomb Kings. I'm expecting something to get cut. And that is bad. It is.
You know I'm all for Campaigns as long as they don't alter the base game. Storm of Chaos was a perfect example.
Slayer armies were better suited against armies in that book or are completely broken rules filled with just masses of Elite units fine against armies that had zip to compete? But not everyone wants to be forced to play Storm of Chaos. That is what primachs will do.
Would you let someone take a War of the Beard Elf army against anything other than itself or the opposing Dwarf one?
We will see won't we if we're forced into Primarchammer. Which I have a feeling we will be and I don't want that. If you do good fine I'm happy for you.
S.Y.
Primarchs have been in the game longer than most Xenos factions. Leman Russ was part of Rogue Trader and not Apocalypse only. The game changes as the years go on, they've been making 40k for more than 30 years now, I think it's insane to expect it to stay exactly the same over that stretch of time (especially when every single person has a different idea of what "correct and best" 40k is like).
Continued comparisons to Fantasy/AoS is illogical. Two completely different games and IP situations.
LightKing wrote: The fact is you ask most 40k fans if they want the loyalist primarchs back, the vast majority would say Yes....
I honestly don't see how The Lion coming back is any more "setting breaking" than Abaddon or the various other superhuman level characters out there
Many Chapter Masters have performed feats equal to what was attributed to Primarchs at this point. They probably aren't as strong just because of gene-seed whatevers, but Dante and Logan are basically talked about as if they're gods among Space Marines.
The plot needs to advance and GW have painted themselves into a corner. The End Times are the only solution. Not a good solution, but the only one.
No...it...doesn't.
Only time it needs to do that is if 40k is story. It's not. Never been. It's SETTING to allow players to MAKE THEIR OWN STORIES!
Changing setting means players either can't use ANYTHING GW publishesh or their stories gets wiped out constantly. Making player stories as meaningless as in AOS(where GW also made another screwup by deliberately designing it so that nobody CAN win. It's endless stalemate).
Setting has to advance is myth by those who can't separate story and setting.
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StupidYellow wrote: The Lion would probably wait like he did before. He's probably the least Damaging of the Primarchs Imperial side to do anything massively plot influence wise.
S.Y.
Yeah. He's just civil war quaranteed unless GW wants to break up all core concepts of 40k by plotholing it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/22 16:47:32
The plot needs to advance and GW have painted themselves into a corner. The End Times are the only solution. Not a good solution, but the only one.
No...it...doesn't.
Only time it needs to do that is if 40k is story. It's not. Never been. It's SETTING to allow players to MAKE THEIR OWN STORIES!
Changing setting means players either can't use ANYTHING GW publishesh or their stories gets wiped out constantly. Making player stories as meaningless as in AOS(where GW also made another screwup by deliberately designing it so that nobody CAN win. It's endless stalemate).
Setting has to advance is myth by those who can't separate story and setting.
The other side of the coin is this: "Setting cannot advance without breaking everything" is a myth by those who cannot accept change.
There's always two sides, neither more correct than the other. A setting doesn't have to change. But it can, and that's what's happening. It's not intrinsically a good or bad thing, it's just a thing that is.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/22 16:51:11
Daemon Primarchs? Bring 'em on. They still exist in the setting, they existed in Epic way back in the day, including them doesn't change anything about the 40K universe.
Loyalist Primarchs? Keep 'em out. One of the best themes of the entire setting is that the heroes of old are lost and gone. Those who have fallen to evil gain immortality, but those who fight for good are only mortals.
If they brought them back my reaction would be: "Leman Russ is gonna get a face full of Grav/Las/Melta. Bring it on."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/22 16:54:58
You know people were saying the exact same thing about the End Times in Warhammer look how that turned out.... I understood why they did it but if 40k sells so well why??
Apples to oranges. EVERY reliable rumormonger has said that 40k is just moving forward and not exploding like Fantasy did. And many people like big events and campaigns. More material to read and consume is a good thing for consumers.
I don't take characters period. To me they are cool figures to paint but in game I prefer not to use them. No tell a lie I used Grom the Paunch once, reinacting the battle of the invasion.
Cool. Thousands (millions?) of players still do.
Primarchs belong in 30k not 40k.
That's complete opinion, and one that the people captaining the ship don't agree with.
How is it fearmongering to say this would fundamentally change the state of playing the game and the background of it also when it totally will?
It's fearmongering to say things like:
"While it won't be as big as AoS wiping fantasy clean, it's going to be bad. Very bad."
"a single model can determine the fate of a game"
"Its bad though when your required to take that. Just to compete."
In comparison, Primarchs aren't any more worldbreaking than Fateweaver, Skarbrand, Eldrad, or The Beast (which Ghazkull is supposed to become the successor to).
How is opinion to say that a game about Troy should have Achilles where as a game about modern Greece shouldn't bad?
It's not what the game was its a fundamental change you have to admit that.
While some may call it fear mongering I think people need to be prepared to how gamebreaking they are going to be Plot and gameplay wise. It is going to be bad considering how they handled previous attempts of moving the plot forward.
AoS could exactly be called that moving the plot forward as after all Archon is still kicking as is Nagash. But not if you play Bretonians or Tomb Kings. I'm expecting something to get cut. And that is bad. It is.
You know I'm all for Campaigns as long as they don't alter the base game. Storm of Chaos was a perfect example.
Slayer armies were better suited against armies in that book or are completely broken rules filled with just masses of Elite units fine against armies that had zip to compete? But not everyone wants to be forced to play Storm of Chaos. That is what primachs will do.
Would you let someone take a War of the Beard Elf army against anything other than itself or the opposing Dwarf one?
We will see won't we if we're forced into Primarchammer. Which I have a feeling we will be and I don't want that. If you do good fine I'm happy for you.
S.Y.
Primarchs have been in the game longer than most Xenos factions. Leman Russ was part of Rogue Trader and not Apocalypse only. The game changes as the years go on, they've been making 40k for more than 30 years now, I think it's insane to expect it to stay exactly the same over that stretch of time (especially when every single person has a different idea of what "correct and best" 40k is like).
Continued comparisons to Fantasy/AoS is illogical. Two completely different games and IP situations.
You see Russ returning is a little different as he's probably on par to Grimnar with his sleigh I'm guessing maybe with IWnD and a few more Wounds / Attacks, he's also the last Primarch to vanish I believe?. Grimnar is basically the strongest Wolf Since Russ I actually remember him in game, then again imperial robot rules were a little micro management system in themselves back then. The game was very different. If the games returning to its roots that's cool. But. It's not been that way for 20odd years the big shake up seems odd to say the least. If Primachs Swinging in is happening I'd be quite willing to trade those for Squats in game, my lvl 4 w8 Ancestor lord please.
Ill refrain from AoS comparison then. However at worst we could see it happen. As nobody knows what's going on with Gw now. It's probable though.
Maybe I jumped the gun a little. Maybe. But it is going alter the fluff and game Significantly regardless.
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