Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This is going to cause a lot of heated debate, and I'll try and make my case as calmly as rationally as possible, so would appreciate if others would do the same in their responses.

I will caveat this with the fact that this is purely based on my experience and discussions with others in the UK, I can't comment for the US or elsewhere.

I have played several times in tournaments, officiated in a few larger ones. And I'm yet to be in one, where I've not seen one of the very top end players play a rule "differently" to obtain an beneficial outcome. I would be far more willing to accept the "everyone makes mistakes" excuse, if these guys were less experienced, easily attending 20+ tournaments a year, playing similar units (riptide wings etc.).

Examples I've seen.

Moving and hailfire on riptides,
Changing what nova reactor power up they have. (army was 90% riptides)
(just because the above is on riptides, it isn't a grudge against the same player, this is genuinely more than 3 separate absolute veterans of the game, doing this to different opponents).
rampage against a single target,


I've also seen (and committed myself) genuine errors, so I'm not saying every time was a cheat, (i'll own up to thinking haywire didn't affect buildings), but from players at that level, both at top level and casual tournaments. And if someone wants to say that its easy to forget what nova reactor you have, I'd agree, if it wasn't for the same player noted down what psychic powers/warlord traits his opponents have.

Each time their opponent was just either so trusting of a top end player to be right, or too nice to say anything. There's WAAC lists, and WAAC playing, and then there's cheating, in my view.

Interested to hear thoughts on the above and what you'd do to counter it.

T

No cheats make your opponent have a bad time. Just look at you for example.
This is however not always on purpose. My experience is that mistakes do happen more on tournaments due to (time) pressure. I for one am not checking as many rules as normal, so when an opponents wrongly corrects me I tend to believe him or at best look it up after the game. This can result in me cheating / making more mistakes than usual since some of these mistakes are sure to be in my favour.

Trazer985 wrote:
Examples I've seen.

Moving and hailfire on riptides,

How is this against the rules?
anyway. not really cheating, but it gave me a great appreciation for the deathclock of the warmachine tournaments. One of my gaming buddies would bring a green tide to a tournament, a literal horde of greenskinz, like 200+. He'd take his time moving them to the objectives, I mean, move each individually, measuring each out, carefully not cheating, if you catch my drift. Anyway, somehow the games always got called for time at the end of his second turn.

 oldzoggy wrote:
No cheats make your opponent have a bad time. Just look at you for example.
This is however not always on purpose. My experience is that mistakes do happen more on tournaments due to (time) pressure. I for one am not checking as many rules as normal, so when an opponents wrongly corrects me I tend to believe him or at best look it up after the game. This can result in me cheating / making more mistakes than usual since some of these mistakes are sure to be in my favour.

In my opinion you can only be classified as a cheat if you have knowingly done something incorrect. If you forget a rule due to time constraints, that isn't cheating. If you have misread a rule and played it your way, that isn't cheating.
In a game so complicated (and convoluted?) there is bound to be errors made.
The difficulty is proving who is cheating, I'd guess as adamant as you may be that your opponent is cheating the only person who really knows for sure is the player himself

Ignoring an accidental feth up on your army list where you're 2 points over for 1 minute:

Cheating can win you a minor, back-water store tournament of 8 players. Sure. Some TO's are yellow bellied sap-suckers that won't stand up to the town bully of the gak-hole they live in.

Try that gak at a major event like the Las Vegas Open and the top players will call you out on your gak. Also, the TO's will boot your fething ass if it's flagrant.

I TO events around my area for the past couple years. There has only been once that someone knowingly cheated in one of my events. Yeah it was a small event, but our community here has a strict no cheating policy. The play in question was using mismarked dice. He had a set that did not have 1's on it and a set that had another set that had double 1's on it. I noticed it when keep putting the two sets in his pockets and didn't keep them mix them with his dice pool.

He got disqualified and barred from events in the area for 6 months. We also posted a picture of him and his dice on our facebook group.

 Glitcha wrote:
I TO events around my area for the past couple years. There has only been once that someone knowingly cheated in one of my events. Yeah it was a small event, but our community here has a strict no cheating policy. The play in question was using mismarked dice. He had a set that did not have 1's on it and a set that had another set that had double 1's on it. I noticed it when keep putting the two sets in his pockets and didn't keep them mix them with his dice pool.

He got disqualified and barred from events in the area for 6 months. We also posted a picture of him and his dice on our facebook group.

Nicely handled!

Way to protect your tournament and area players.

 Glitcha wrote:
I TO events around my area for the past couple years. There has only been once that someone knowingly cheated in one of my events. Yeah it was a small event, but our community here has a strict no cheating policy. The play in question was using mismarked dice. He had a set that did not have 1's on it and a set that had another set that had double 1's on it. I noticed it when keep putting the two sets in his pockets and didn't keep them mix them with his dice pool.

He got disqualified and barred from events in the area for 6 months. We also posted a picture of him and his dice on our facebook group.

I keep dice in my pocket. Just one pocket, and it's always the same dice, but still. I just find it convenient.

I'm not saying you did wrong here-no, I applaud your actions!-I'm just worried if I go to a tournament, my habits might get me in trouble.

Hard cheating rarely.

Soft cheating, virtually always.

Trazer985 wrote:
Moving and hailfire on riptides,

Do you mean the moving before\after using a nova charged Ion Accelerator? You may want to review the Relentless special rule in the back of the book.

 carldooley wrote:

Trazer985 wrote:
Moving and hailfire on riptides,

Do you mean the moving before\after using a nova charged Ion Accelerator? You may want to review the Relentless special rule in the back of the book.

Hailfire in the Riptide wing states that the riptides cannot move in the turn they want to Hailfire even losing the jet pack move in the assault phase of the player turned used.

I have seen more people getting an advantage by complaining about rules and forcing the opponent to look up the rule as proof rather then out right cheating.

 skullzz wrote:

 carldooley wrote:

Trazer985 wrote:
Moving and hailfire on riptides,

Do you mean the moving before\after using a nova charged Ion Accelerator? You may want to review the Relentless special rule in the back of the book.

Hailfire in the Riptide wing states that the riptides cannot move in the turn they want to Hailfire even losing the jet pack move in the assault phase of the player turned used.

Thankyou. It took me a minute to track it down. . . I thought that it was more prolific than one entry in Mont'ka.