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 Sasori wrote:
I ordered Magnus at a 25% discount.

Sasori, living the dream!

 Thud wrote:
Now, I like whining as much as the next guy, but isn't this getting a bit out of hand?

I mean, it's your hobby. You can do what you want. It's perfectly fine to seek out like-minded people and play the kind of games you want to play. It's perfectly fine to throw out the rules entirely and make your own, or use another game alongside your 40k minis. It's also fine to just read pre-3rd ed fluff. Or pretend Ward never worked for GW, or that CS Goto wrote for Warmachine.

Seriously, guys, it's toy soldiers and your hobby. Take some ownership of it and find a way to enjoy yourself. Jesus.

And when thats not an option, when friendly casual games arent realistic? The rules arent there for casual games the rules are there so the game still work in Non-casual games!

The game works perfectly fine for pickups. It is your own fault whether your list is garbage or not.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The game works perfectly fine for pickups. It is your own fault whether your list is garbage or not.

The thread needed a little comedy. Thanks for giving us all a laugh.

Magnus is a Daemon Primarch he is the second most powerful Psyker in 40K. I expect him to eat knights for breakfast and to burn everything within several lightyears with warpfire.

I hope, OP, that you own neither a Wraithknight, Scatterbikes, Tau, Skyhammer formation or Necrons. Because otherwise your post just ends up as "I don't want someone to out-cheese my cheese!"



----All is Dust----

 Thud wrote:


Seriously, guys, it's toy soldiers and your hobby. Take some ownership of it and find a way to enjoy yourself. Jesus.

I honestly believe that OP's way to enjoy the hobby is posts like this.

I laugh at anyone saying "he won't get his strength D beam gaze cause 5 war charges" that he gets on 2's... that he can throw 5 dice at and have the most likely chance of successfully manifesting. Haha, I laugh at this thread

Well......to be fair, he's a freaking demon primarch. he probably should be able to rip through wraithknights like butter, though I'm not certain how a FMC would accomplish that, at least from the air, one shot D beam with a -2 modifier to the D chart notwithstanding.

And depending on his toughness, I would argue that he's probably easier to kill than a wraithknight, as he's got fewer wounds and isn't a GMC.

I doubt he's going to be a pushover, but he really REALLY shouldn't be.

7 wounds. FMC. 4+ armor. 4++ invuln that rerolls 1s.

He's not a GMC, though.

Need 6s to wound it with bolters. Has a 50% chance of failing each wound, with a 1/3 chance of rerolling each failure for another 50% chance to fail each wound.

Necron Deathmarks wound him on 2's.

All of the Dark Eldars can poison him like he owes them money.

Eldar Scatter-Bikes wound on 5's. They usually come with Divination, so they can more reliably hit and ground him if he's flying.

He's certainly powerful with his psychic powers. He's going to land nearly everything he tries to cast.

But he can be killed, and he's 650 points in one ball of fun!

FMCs OP, but at least he costs 650pts.

While I think the OP is a bit silly...I can't fault the underlying thought process. However, there is an easier solution: don't play the game.

I haven't played 40K since edition 3.5, and while I love the genre/fluff, Games Workshop has long since lost my interest with the direction they went with rules. So, *gasp*, I stopped playing. There is no version of this where Games Workshop has some weird 180-degree turn and makes the game something I'd like the play again (I didn't enjoy 3-3.5, more of a 2nd fan).

"Lock her up!"

lol you're a bad poster

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
I laugh at anyone saying "he won't get his strength D beam gaze cause 5 war charges" that he gets on 2's... that he can throw 5 dice at and have the most likely chance of successfully manifesting. Haha, I laugh at this thread

Oh and he gets access to another D shot, you know, just in case the beam somehow missed or didn't wound. Still he's "reasonably" priced, me thinks.

I'm not going to boycott Magnus because I think he's OP. It's too soon to know one way or the other, for one thing. For another, he's just the first of many Primarchs coming out, both loyal and traitor, and you can be dang sure I'm picking up Lion El'Jonson when he comes out.

I am, however, not going to buy Magnus, because I'm not a Tzeench guy and because of the nipple horns. I mean, seriously, nipple horns? Whose bright idea was that?

Looks like it's time to rebase and spiff up my old Culexes Assassin though.

Also, my group has a house rule - psykers can only use their own Warp Dice and those generated by the Harness the Warp roll at the beginning of the psychic phase. Tones down the excesses of the psychic phase a bit.

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:


I am, however, not going to buy Magnus, because I'm not a Tzeench guy and because of the nipple horns. I mean, seriously, nipple horns? Whose bright idea was that?

The original artwork's and all that followed it in the last years thereafter.

 Blacksails wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The game works perfectly fine for pickups. It is your own fault whether your list is garbage or not.

The thread needed a little comedy. Thanks for giving us all a laugh.

Yeah, I mean, I basically exist in the ideal situation for making WH40k rules work. I have one opponent who I play at home with in a private setting, and she and I can make WH40k's rather-shoddy ruleset work for us by just ignoring or altering anything we don't like. Magnus the Red and scale creep isn't an issue I ever have to face, because I buy all the models me and my mom use, she just uses whatever I have in my collection, so I don't ever have to deal with him myself. My mom even plays Orks, I play Sisters of Battle, and I don't have to deal with the problems of using an army with no Skyfire going up against an army with multiple Flyer options, because we just never use flyers. The worst complaint I have about WH40k that applies to my personal situation is that there aren't plastic models for me to make conversions from for my army.

But I recognize that not everyone's in my situation. Not everyone can so easily decide to not play with stuff. Not everyone can just decide not to play with something built into the standard game rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elbows wrote:
While I think the OP is a bit silly...I can't fault the underlying thought process. However, there is an easier solution: don't play the game.

I haven't played 40K since edition 3.5, and while I love the genre/fluff, Games Workshop has long since lost my interest with the direction they went with rules. So, *gasp*, I stopped playing. There is no version of this where Games Workshop has some weird 180-degree turn and makes the game something I'd like the play again (I didn't enjoy 3-3.5, more of a 2nd fan).

I imagine the shift from wacky, hilarious, non-serious 2e to super-serious, grim 3e lore was a big shock too?

 Pouncey wrote:
...Maybe you should think about what I just said.

There is no productive force I can do.

No option to make it better.

Every complaint about imbalanced rules and overpowered units on this forum is the same. All of it fruitless whining.

If you decide so.

Funny our games don't get screwed by GW the way yours are.

Difference? We decided to do something about it.

tneva82 wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
...Maybe you should think about what I just said.

There is no productive force I can do.

No option to make it better.

Every complaint about imbalanced rules and overpowered units on this forum is the same. All of it fruitless whining.

If you decide so.

Funny our games don't get screwed by GW the way yours are.

Difference? We decided to do something about it.

One post up, buddy. Just read one post up.

I understand the argument, but I'm already boycotting Magnus (and much of the new range) because of the ridiculous price, rather than just the (potential) rules.

Even if fears over broken rules turn out to be just that, fears, I still wouldn't be interested. But hey, that's my personal feeling towards the whole GW beast at the moment.

I'm a long-time Thousand Sons player and collector - I'm already curious as to if the new expansion will invalidate (or seriously cripple) by existing forces without buying loads of the new sets. We'll see either way - no point wringing our hands and furrowing our brows with concern before we know what the situation is.

 Pouncey wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

So all I can do is whine fruitlessly on Internet message boards because I lack the power to actually get things to change.

You could invest a lot of time and effort in house-ruling stuff to death and finding like-minded people.

...You understand my issue is about not having plastic models, right? You can't house-rule new models into existence.

Also, if you wanna look up my early posts on this forum from about 5 1/2 years ago, you'll see me being the most optimistic Sisters of Battle player on this forum. You'll also see other Sisters of Battle players arguing with me about how the situattion wasn't bad.

why don't you get 3-d party

 koooaei wrote:


why don't you get 3-d party

From reading all of his posts, I think Pouncey's issue with GW is not the models, it's the rules.

 kronk wrote:

 koooaei wrote:


why don't you get 3-d party

From reading all of his posts, I think Pouncey's issue with GW is not the models, it's the rules.

You're a fast reader.

Took you no time at all to read three thousand one hundred and eighty nine posts.

Erm, three thousand one hundred and ninety now.

Your reading comprehension could use a lot of work though.

Traditio wrote:
40k players have nobody to blame for just how broken this game is but themselves.
40k is broken because of 40k players. Its their own fault.

By this "logic" Traditio then no company is ever responsible for anything they do. That is in point of fact false. Here's an example: GW writes poor rules for a unit, for this example let's assume they make an OP unit. Now players buy this model, some buy to build and paint it, others to use it for conversions to make something different. Some purchases will be as a gift for a b-day or xmas by friends and family who don't know the game and some sales will be from people just getting started in the game and who don't know the rules yet or haven't bought their codex. Some people will buy the model knowing it's OP but plan to houserule it with their friends to make it more fair because they still think the model looks good and is fun to use and lastly some people (and I believe this is a minority here) will buy it because it's OP and they want to win. Regardless of why you bought it however GW didn't have to write bad rules. In fact it would be better for GW sales if they wrote good rules because a good, balanced game is a better marketing tool than the bad rep you get for writing terrible, unbalanced rules. Ultimately a company is responsible for what they do and the product they put forward. Saying otherwise is like blaming a rape victim for their own rape because they "decided to leave their house that day".

Traditio wrote:

I've said it once, and I'll say it again:

40k players have nobody to blame for just how broken this game is but themselves.

You have a problem with a bloated rule-set? You demanded it by buying models with special snowflake special rules.

You have a problem with scale-creep? You kept buying the giant robots and monsters.

You have a problem with power creep? Well guess who voted "yes" for that power-creep with your wallet?

You have a problem with the fact that you have to go through 70 billion books just to get the rules for one army?

Well guess who kept buying those books so you could keep getting the next most broken, OP rules to date?

40k is broken because of 40k players. Its their own fault.

Two things here: Firstly you're using the same flawed "logic" you've been using all thread. It doesn't work that way. And secondly you keep lumping ALL 40k players into one basket, as if we're some kind of hive mind that moves forward with one purpose. We aren't like that however and we all play for different reasons.

Some people, not all, have issues with rules bloat. Their opinion is no more or less valid than those who think there is a healthy amount of rules in 40k currently, neither is to blame for rules bloat. It is possible to write fun, lore-driven units with special rules that represent their abilities on the TT without bloating the game. I personally feel that GW has not met that goal, but that's just my opinion. Some units actually are in a good place in this regard however, they have fun rules that make them stand out on the TT without making them feel too cumbersome. "Snowflake" rules aren't inherently a bad thing if written correctly and remember that not all 40K players demanded them.

Scale creep is very divisive, lots of players like the bigger units and lots don't. Neither is right or wrong in their opinion, it's just the way the game progressed either way. The scale creep wouldn't be nearly as bad however if certain large models had their rules reigned in a bit to better balance them on the TT. For some I'm sorry the game's scale went up and you don't like it, I sincerely hope you can find opponents who like to play without those larger models and I also hope the larger stuff gets adjusted to fit more balanced in games so no one has issues playing with them. Again however, not all players asked for this but it was delivered because many did want it.

As for power creep I really feel that wasn't asked for at all by most of the player base, it just kinda happened right around the necron codex release. You can't blame the players at all for this however, I was an Eldar player before 7th edition dropped and I sure ain't gunna shelve my army and start from scratch just because my codex got a couple OP units in the new edition. I wouldn't expect anyone to quit their army because it got a couple OP units or formations at all. It sucks for players who have lower tier codexes right now (I'm in that boat with my DE and chaos) and I wish that GW would handle rules releases more clearly so that no codexes get left behind the way they have been since 6th. That's not my fault, or any other 40k player though, that's on GW.

What armies have lots of books Traditio? Chaos marines and nids. Both are codexes locked in 6th edition with nothing but supplements. That was all that was offered to them to "keep them up" with the rest and they were forced to take what they could get. They didn't ask for peanuts while others got steak dinners (knowing that BA,orks and DE didn't get treated much better) and no one wished that upon them but that's what GW gave them. They were forced to eat supplements just to have a semblance of the new things others had been given. I'm sure a great majority of 40K players would be happier if chaos and nids had just gotten proper 7th edition codexes like everyone else. Once again, not the players fault, GW made the decision not to make proper 7th edition dexes. What was the last supplement with all these "OP" rules you speak of Traditio? Because near as I can tell all the OP units people complain about are all in the core books of their respective armies. I don't think people were buying supplement books to be OP, I think they bought them to try not to fall too far behind the actual OP lists.

40K is not broken because of the players Traditio, it's broken because GW refuses to fix it. There are tons of games out there that sell incredibly well and have fairly solid rule sets that very few complain about. Writing good rules is not the responsibility of the players and it certainly isn't their fault they got bad rules. If 40k bothers you so much Traditio once again I suggest you find a new game to play.

 koooaei wrote:
why don't you get 3-d party

You mean why don't I play video games?

I, uh, do. A lot.

 kronk wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I ordered Magnus at a 25% discount.

Sasori, living the dream!

Just ballin' out of control here.

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
I'm not going to boycott Magnus because I think he's OP. It's too soon to know one way or the other, for one thing. For another, he's just the first of many Primarchs coming out, both loyal and traitor, and you can be dang sure I'm picking up Lion El'Jonson when he comes out.

I am, however, not going to buy Magnus, because I'm not a Tzeench guy and because of the nipple horns. I mean, seriously, nipple horns? Whose bright idea was that?

Looks like it's time to rebase and spiff up my old Culexes Assassin though.

Also, my group has a house rule - psykers can only use their own Warp Dice and those generated by the Harness the Warp roll at the beginning of the psychic phase. Tones down the excesses of the psychic phase a bit.

That is a pretty loaded house rule imho. Unless you also house rule the other forms of cheddar.....ie Wraith Knight point cost, riptide wings, super heavy antics and so on. The psychic phase is no more abusive than the previously mentioned content.

 Pouncey wrote:


You're a fast reader.

Took you no time at all to read three thousand one hundred and eighty nine posts.

Erm, three thousand one hundred and ninety now.

Your reading comprehension could use a lot of work though.

Wouldn't it have been faster to just say "No, kronk - actually I'm more concerned with the lack of model options I have" than spin out sarcastic spiel?

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:


You're a fast reader.

Took you no time at all to read three thousand one hundred and eighty nine posts.

Erm, three thousand one hundred and ninety now.

Your reading comprehension could use a lot of work though.

Wouldn't it have been faster to just say "No, kronk - actually I'm more concerned with the lack of model options I have" than spin out sarcastic spiel?

Because this post:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/420/709306.page#9045469

Is on this very page.

 Pouncey wrote:


You're a fast reader.

Took you no time at all to read three thousand one hundred and eighty nine posts.

Erm, three thousand one hundred and ninety now.

Your reading comprehension could use a lot of work though.

+5 points for using the correct "You're"! Honestly, that was refreshing on a forum!

If I was unclear on your needs, wants and desires, it's probably because you never make them known!

You should tell us if you are upset with GW. And if you are, why are you? I'm unclear.

Table wrote:

That is a pretty loaded house rule imho. Unless you also house rule the other forms of cheddar.....ie Wraith Knight point cost, riptide wings, super heavy antics and so on. The psychic phase is no more abusive than the previously mentioned content.

It's specifically aimed at negating Daemonfarming, but it also prevents shenanigans like the OP was concerned about, throwing all the warp charge dice at one caster so he can reliably get off multiple high-charge cost powers.

Our other house rules are a 40% Troops requirement and no Allies, which doesn't directly address things like Riptide Wings or Wraithknight spam, but they do cause players to have less points to spend on such things, and prevents people exploiting unintended synergies between armies.