Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm Imperial cruiser X and want to get to planet Y...

I use my warp drive and travel warp speed and get there in several weeks.

But I can also use a webway too? Or is the webway strictly xenos species and humans only use the warp to travel?

I guess a good comparison would be “going somewhere through the sea” and “going somewhere by crossing a bridge over the sea”. If the sea was full of nightmarish evil crazy supernatural creatures and currents that could lead you way, way astray from your original destination, and other nightmarish creatures were on the bridge too, and OH MY GOD THEY ARE EATING MY MIND FROM INSIDE I NEED TO TEAR MY EYES OUT NOW THE MAGGOTS ARE IN MY HEAD THEY HURT THEY HU

usmcmidn wrote:
I'm Imperial cruiser X and want to get to planet Y...

I use my warp drive and travel warp speed and get there in several weeks.

But I can also use a webway too? Or is the webway strictly xenos species and humans only use the warp to travel?

Webway it's pretty much restricted only for Eldar as they are the only current species that know where the entrances are and how to properly operate it.

But in order about speed efficiency thing in warp travel as hyperdrive in Star Wars (faster than light but takes time) and the webway like Stargate (instant travel just like walking trought a door)

Webway travel is not instant. It still takes time as you must traverse the Webway tunnels between gates. The Webway tunnels are like tunnels in the warp (and breaches in the tunnels can lead to daemons or the warp invading through). However it takes far less time than a ship having to go through warp space directly.

So can eldar ships travel "warp speed" if they wanted instead of using the gates?

Yes but as given in the Eldar Codices, they rarely do so because the Eldar souls shine brightly in the warp and so attract daemons more so than humans. They only really do so when the Webway network is broken and cannot get them to where they want to go. Even in its damaged state, the Webway network is still vast enough that the Eldar can use it as their main mode of travel.

In one of Gav Thorpe's short stories, The Curse of Shaa-dom, Eldar White Seers travel in a ship that travels through the warp. In fact, it passes through a Webway tunnel wall and enters the warp that way. However I get the sense that they are a special case and it is not an ordinary Eldar ship.

Some webway tunnels ARE large enough to permit spacecraft, but most cannot, being restricted to the smaller craft (tanks and other skimmers, fightercraft).

This excerpt about the webway from the 2nd ed Eldar codex gave some details.

[ When the Eldar go to war, they travel throught the tunnels of the webway. Such journeys are relatively fast, enabling spacefleets to move easily between the network's major gateways. This enables the Eldar to move swiftly to places directly connected to the webway, but makes it extremely difficult for them to reach worlds that have no gate into the network.
Eldar spacecraft can travel throught the warp using their warp drives, although this is a slow and dangerous process for them. Unlike humans, the Eldar have no Navigators who can steer through warp space.
Furthermore, the daemons of the warp are attracted far more strongly to vibrant Eldar spirits than to the dull, shadowy minds of men. As a result of these factors the Eldar travel infrequently to places that lie more than a few light years from their webway exits. ]

The webway is a tunnel network of realspace through the warp, it's not restricted to only Eldar; but it's very important to them and not something they'd like to share. Humanity has a webway portal as well, on terra which the golden throne keeps shut at the moment.

IoM warp drives let them dive into the warp then the gellar field device creates a bubble of real space around the ship called the gellar field. They don't need this bubble to jump in and out of the warp, but it would be insane to do so without it. Early on they didn't even have the gellar field, but that was back right when they first made the warp drive in the DAoT.

Tau are similar to IoM, however they don't have the gellar field for the bubble and don't dive as deeply into it as IoM. They sort of skim across the surface of it and added to their smaller warp presence to begin with it seems to be somewhat safe for them to do this for now.

Just to add slightly to the above, the Golden Throne was a device designed by the Emperor to provide a portal to the webway for humanity to use, but Magnus' psychic warning shout about the Horus Heresy ruptured it before it was complete. The majority of the Emperor's remaining psychic ability is being used trying to keep the breach shut, although the Custodes fight daemonic incursions when cracks appear.

It's most certainly not a functional way for humanity to enter the webway, and I doubt anyone alive today knows that the golden throne is a webway portal at all.

I believe the Necrons invaded the webway at some point using devices known as Dolmen Gates. Not certain how many there are left in 40k.

Also, the eldar actively police the webway, hunting down interlopers. It's their greatest tactical advantage, so I think they'd fight tooth and nail to expel anyone looking to use it.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I guess a good comparison would be “going somewhere through the sea” and “going somewhere by crossing a bridge over the sea”. If the sea was full of nightmarish evil crazy supernatural creatures and currents that could lead you way, way astray from your original destination, and other nightmarish creatures were on the bridge too, and OH MY GOD THEY ARE EATING MY MIND FROM INSIDE I NEED TO TEAR MY EYES OUT NOW THE MAGGOTS ARE IN MY HEAD THEY HURT THEY HU

Exalted

Its been a long time since I read the books but didn't the elder give the imperial fleet access to the web way during the gothic war, so I suspect a number of imperial captains and admirals may know how to use a small part of it

Interesting. Do you have any excerpts?

If the eldar guided them through it, then I wouldn't expect the Imperial navigators to be able to replicate the feat, but if they were legitimately taught how to access it they might be able to do it again.

I really wouldn't think it's in any way a common occurrence though. The only other times I've heard of humans in the webway is a Salamanders battle barge that was lured there by Vect and some funky stuff with the Legion of the Damned.

The Trap is Sprung, Pg101, battle fleet gothic rule book

From his course it was clear that the Warmaster was preparing to launch an attack on Schindlegeist, where Blackstone V floated in the depths of space. Leaving only a few vessels to deal with the other Chaos fleets, Ravensburg and the Eldar raced to reach Schindlegeist before Abandon. Using ancient warp gates shown to them by the Eldar, the Imperial Admirals sped across the sector and arrived five days before Abandon was due to reach the area.

Interesting. I'd say saving a Blackstone Fortress from Chaos would merit exceptional measures, such as opening the webway to non-eldar.

The thing to remember most about the Webway is that it is only accessible from Webway Gates. Unlike the Warp, which you can enter from just about anywhere by kicking your Warp Drive on, Webway Gates are fixed points (and are often both invisible and intangible, until "activated", which is generally something only the Eldar know how to do). So, if there's no Webway Gate present in the system you want to go to, there's no way to take the Webway there.

Very true, although the Dark Eldar have devices that can produce temporary small-scale webway gates.

Just had an End-Timey thought. There being a webway gate on Terra means the Eldar (of any variety) can strike there...

Would be the ultimate middle finger to the fluff writers who just portray the eldar as galactic punching bags if they Fireheart Sol

The fact that there are deamons in the portion of the web way leading to terra probably suggests that it's no longer connected to the web way proper. we know the webway can heal its self to an extent so its probably now the equivalent of an open airlock with the docking tube removed only instead of the atmosphere rushing out the the warp is trying to rush in through the big open door.

Plus if the elder did some how try popping out they'd have to fight through the demons that are trying to do the same thing taking the pressure off the custodies a little, plus reducing the Eldar's number so that when they appear they have fresh(ish) extremely Veteran coustodes and fortifications designed to hold back psychic demons to get through.

More likely would be the elder some how help the imperium shut the gate freeing up those same 10'000 year demonic war veteran stormcast eternals sorry custodies to go on a galactic rampage.

Yeah it was just a little bit of whimsy, didn't think it was actually likely to happen

I like the 'ruptured airlock' analogy though...

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Very true, although the Dark Eldar have devices that can produce temporary small-scale webway gates.

Just had an End-Timey thought. There being a webway gate on Terra means the Eldar (of any variety) can strike there...

Would be the ultimate middle finger to the fluff writers who just portray the eldar as galactic punching bags if they Fireheart Sol

The Harlequins did this in Throneworld. In friendship.

A friendship which apparently involves bombing your friends' primary governmental office while said government is in it (though to be fair, with how inept the High Lords were at this point they really would have been doing the Imperium a favour if they'd killed the lot), causing massive disruption and panic on their capitol and murdering your way through dozens of the irreplaceable elite bodyguards of their god figure.

But still, it was all done in friendship, and it's totally the thought that counts.

goundry wrote:
The Trap is Sprung, Pg101, battle fleet gothic rule book

From his course it was clear that the Warmaster was preparing to launch an attack on Schindlegeist, where Blackstone V floated in the depths of space. Leaving only a few vessels to deal with the other Chaos fleets, Ravensburg and the Eldar raced to reach Schindlegeist before Abandon. Using ancient warp gates shown to them by the Eldar, the Imperial Admirals sped across the sector and arrived five days before Abandon was due to reach the area.

I thought Warp Gates just had stable warp routes and were not actually using the Webway? Kinda like a fixed current in the warp?

goundry wrote:
The fact that there are deamons in the portion of the web way leading to terra probably suggests that it's no longer connected to the web way proper. we know the webway can heal its self to an extent so its probably now the equivalent of an open airlock with the docking tube removed only instead of the atmosphere rushing out the the warp is trying to rush in through the big open door.

Plus if the elder did some how try popping out they'd have to fight through the demons that are trying to do the same thing taking the pressure off the custodies a little, plus reducing the Eldar's number so that when they appear they have fresh(ish) extremely Veteran coustodes and fortifications designed to hold back psychic demons to get through.

More likely would be the elder some how help the imperium shut the gate freeing up those same 10'000 year demonic war veteran stormcast eternals sorry custodies to go on a galactic rampage.

If i;m not mistaken there is a difference between the stable Eldar Webway (wich was built in the old days ) vs the emperor built Webway access. It's the 2nd one who is somehow collapsing after Magnus intervention and the one most of demons are invading about the Old Eldar one used in Throneworld i'm not sure if that path remains open or was sealed somehow.

Yeah Harlequins are basically Reasonable Marines Eldar. They will work in a genuine alliance with select humans if it means defeating Chaos. Some Inquisitors are even allowed access to the Black Library.

They're also respected by both Craftworlders and the Dark Kin, so if you've got a Harlie escort in the webway you probably won't get murdered...

The webway os far safer.

But it also you using the routes that are pretty pre set and any section blocked or collapsed is gone. Also not all craft can use every path
.

Its a high speed river network.

The warp is a sea that goes anywhere. But more dangerous.
There is no real scale limit to warp going craft.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Yeah Harlequins are basically Reasonable Marines Eldar. They will work in a genuine alliance with select humans if it means defeating Chaos. Some Inquisitors are even allowed access to the Black Library.

You know, as a big fan of the Harlequins, I can not for the life of me work out how they managed to get this kind of good PR.

Oh Lord knows. Top theories:

1. All Eldar are scared of clowns
2. All Eldar love clowns as it reminds them of their childhood
3. They don't really respect them, they're just humouring the nutters who dress up in clown suits
4. Anyone who smack-talks them gets poked with that terrifying monofilament-injecting tube thing
5. They put some weird psychotropic drug thing in the punch when they put on their dances
6. They've got funny handshakes that let other Eldar know they're part of a species-wide Masons society

Any other ideas?

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Oh Lord knows. Top theories:

1. All Eldar are scared of clowns
2. All Eldar love clowns as it reminds them of their childhood
3. They don't really respect them, they're just humouring the nutters who dress up in clown suits
4. Anyone who smack-talks them gets poked with that terrifying monofilament-injecting tube thing
5. They put some weird psychotropic drug thing in the punch when they put on their dances
6. They've got funny handshakes that let other Eldar know they're part of a species-wide Masons society

Any other ideas?

Just outright fear or respect the Harlies can make their mask show anything they desire, so when you are standing in front of someone who's mask always reflect your worst fears, inner demons, and seems to be reading your mind or just show you images of friendly faces, friends and even allies you feel comfortable with it's quite hard to gauge what kind of person they are.

P.S: also from time to time they seem to perform to some human audiences according to lore, wich may lead to be considered less hostile than other Eldars.

Yeah that sounds like it'd do it probably being the hand-picked servants of only remaining Eldar God at large would have something to do with it as well...

I meant more from an out-of-universe perspective, than in-universe. Their rep is a lot better than how they often act.

Ah I see, it was their reputation as Eldar 'Reasonable Marines' that seemed odd.

Agreed, although 'Reasonable Marines' would be a relative statement compared to the Dark Eldar who think skinning something alive is funny.

I suppose Craftworlders would be more Reasonable Marines than the killer clowns. Especially seeing as their attitude towards humans (allies of convenience to be betrayed later, as opposed to genuine allies) is probably a more reasonable reaction to the general xenophobia of the IoM...

Craftworlders: Samurai type mindset, focus on one thing to the point of mastery, inherent belief in the superiority of their own race when compared to the plebes in the rest of the galaxy.

Dark-Kin: They're Caligula. All of them. All the time. With clones.

Harlequins: Laugh to a joke no one else heard.

Pretty much bang on except I think the 'inherent belief in the superiority of their own race' is a universal trait...

Love the Caligula description though. Perfect