My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**TheSnowmanInHell**

Introduction/Table of Contents
A note on sources. As of 12/08/16 I'm looking at Codex Chaos Marines, Wrath of Magnus, and Traitor's Hate as sources for the primary idea of this tactica. Once I get access to Traitor Legions I'll see if there is any difference between it and what we've seen in WoM, but it's my understanding there shouldn't be any. Daemonic allies can be found in Codex Daemons and Codex Daemons: Daemonic Incursion. Obviously when discussing allies and the like those faction's relevant books will be used.

For reference you will find below lists of the mechanical contents of each of the above mentioned books. No, I'm not giving you the rules, just a list of which book a given formation/relic/datasheet/whatever can be found in.

Warzone Fenris: Wrath of Magnus

Spoiler:

Traitor's Hate

Spoiler:

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Thousand Sons - Overview and Army Building by Ericthegreen
I have a few people excited by this in my area, including myself, so I'm trying to organise my thoughts. You can find reviews of the rules and formations elsewhere, I'm sure, so this is more a stream of consciousness. Firstly - not top tier in the slightest, but a decent mid table army with cool funky stuff, which for most CSM players is a massive leg up from where we were.

What Are Thousand Sons Good At?

Spoiler:

What Are Thousand Sons Bad At?

Spoiler:

The Psychic Power Conundrum

Spoiler:

Lores To Consider:

Spoiler:

Biomancy - while there are 3 blessings in the lore, only 1 of them affects a unit. Solo disc sorcerors or Scarab cult leaders can make great use of them both though and the icing on the cake is Endurance, making Scarab cult in particular horrendous to get rid of

Divination - The money maker for most armies. The primaris is a blessing, so you are guaranteed access. It's also a damn useful blessing for an army with small but high quality firepower. There are also 3 other unit based blessings in the lore (the chance of getting Forewarning is a great reason to include Tzaangors, who suddenly become quite durable), including Perfect Timing, which is a killer when you're packing AP3 bolters. Divination has to be a go to pick for your blessing options

Telepathy - Invisibility is god mode as most 40k players know. But outside of that and the primaris, the blessings are unnecesary (your invun will likely be better than your cover save and you are fearless already). Telepathy can be strongly considered because Psychic Shriek deals with monstrous creatures and AP2 very well, especially now it no longer requires a to hit roll but outside of that, Telepathy is subpar unless you're trying to do an invisibile Scarab deathstar, which doesn't stand up to other invisible type death stars out there.

Sinistrum - Like Telepathy, there's a doozy of a blessing in Warp Fate, a psyker only blessing which, like Biomancy, is useufll for Scarab leaders and disc sorcerors and Death Hex for dealing with other Death Stars. On the level of Telepathy in that you can risk a cheeky roll.

Tzeentch - Tzeentch is a tricky one. For your big psykers - the ML3s, Ahriman and Magnus, the mere presence of Siphon makes the lore worth a look. Despite 2 dud powers, if you want mind bullets, going all in on lore of tzeentch is not a bad shout. You have a great tankbuster in doombolt. You also have AP2 on 2 of the witchfires to cover some bases. The powers are expensive though, which is why it's a bit all or nothing - it really needs to pull siphon to work.

Summary:
If you're going for Scarabstar, with a sorceror with the movement relic, another with the AP2 staff, going all in on telepathy or sinistrum to pull invisibility or Warp Fate is worth a look. Otherwise, I think after taking your mandatory rolls on Tzeentch, commiting everything on Divination will give you the most reliable results for overall army effectiveness.

A note on Ahriman. Ahriman is a special case. His rules are designed to throw witchfires, so using him as a buffbot when you can get cheaper ML3 psykers elsewhere is a waste. 3 rolls on Tzeentch gives him a decent shot at Siphon. If you have what you need after that, he can always take a cheeky Psychic Shriek. Ahriman's key benefit, though, is getting his slow moving rubrics into midfield where they are best suited. By taking him you are commiting to more mind bullets than blessings, but the additional pre battle mobility cannot be discounted.

Covering the Gaps

Spoiler:

Formations

Spoiler:

TL/DR: Take allies to cover inherent weakenesses in an elite, survivable army. Try to strike a balance between buffs and mind bullets.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Allies of Chaos
Section Under Construction, looking for contributors.

Non Chaos Allies
Section Under Construction, looking for contributors.

Battle Reports
Section Under Construction, looking for contributors.

**Thousand-Son-Sorcerer**

FLG has rudimentary rules up seems legit

Units

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/11/26/war-zone-fenris-wrath-of-magnus-review-dataslates-and-special-rules/

Formations and Detachments

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/11/26/wrath-of-magnus-review-formations-and-detachments/

Matches the exact stuff some people have said and the current picture on Bell of the Lost Souls

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/11/wrath-of-magnus-thousand-sons-special-rules.html

So probably legit.

**Captyn_Bob**

Apparently warseer is back in December.

Looking forward to Tsons tactica. So far, everything still feels overcosted.(Except horrors, which are mental)
I'm most interested in the artefact that makes infantry jump. Many possibilities...

**koooaei**

Jump 3++ termies. Still overpriced but at least fun.

**mrhappyface**

I have a queery:
The seers bane daemon weapon says to use your leadership as strength and their leadership as toughness for purposes of wounding. Fine so far. But thdn it says to use the targets toughness for purposes of instant death, is this their toughness vs your leadership or your strength? As it is worded on FLG it would seem that you use your leadership vs their toughness but I would like someone to confirm this.

If this interpretation is right then suddenly a Tzeentch sorceror on a disc with the seers blade is also a nasty cc unit capable of taking out multi wound models.

**koooaei**

mrhappyface wrote:
I have a queery:
The seers bane daemon weapon says to use your leadership as strength and their leadership as toughness for purposes of wounding. Fine so far. But thdn it says to use the targets toughness for purposes of instant death, is this their toughness vs your leadership or your strength? As it is worded on FLG it would seem that you use your leadership vs their toughness but I would like someone to confirm this.

If this interpretation is right then suddenly a Tzeentch sorceror on a disc with the seers blade is also a nasty cc unit capable of taking out multi wound models.

Yes, i interpreted the same way.

Though, there are some instances of invalidating the sorc. Like a harlequin mask or scary pods from the sm formation that give -2 ld to models near them or a heldrake formation. Not saying that it's common - just a thing to be aware of.

**mrhappyface**

It's still pretty nasty against most things.

It would seem that Tzeentch HQ's/LoW are now must haves: we have sorcerors casting on 3+, an artifact to turn things into jump units, sorcerors who can insta kill most things, Ahriman who can spam witchfire, Magnus who will get off any power you need, increasing invul across the board and much more.

Still very expensive (points and money wise

) but 2000+ point games will be devistating.

**MagicJuggler**

From what it looks like, most the stuff looks overcosted, and Tzanngors are Ork Boyz by another name.

The Artifact that lets a nearby Infantry unit move like Jump Infantry looks like a must-have though, and the ability to make *any* CSM Detachment a Tzeentch Detachment could be potentially hilarious. Worst comes to worst, you could pop that artifact on a Warpsmith from a Warpack, and plug that into a R&H Purge list for Jump Zombies.

One question I have is whether Scarab Terminators are similar to Cataphractii w.r.t. being able to be used as Terminators for any formation that requires them. If yes, a unit of Scarabs would be hilarious (if usually impractical) in a Terminator Annihilation Force, especially if you also got access to Gate of Infinity or Hammerhand.

I imagine that although RAW-wise, nothing stops a Black Legion formation from being a Thousand Sons formation too, it will be FAQd to be "no", but if yes, it would have the amusing side-effect of making VoTLW free and replacing it with a MoT tax instead. Which, again, could be hilarious on certain combos. Sadly, you wouldn't be able to do the same with Crimson Slaughter due to them not being able to take VoTLW.

On another note, a Daemon Prince of Tzeentch that cast Cursed Earth on itself would have a 3++ and reroll 1s...

**mrhappyface**

Has anyone thought about allying in the maelstorm of gore to actually make bezerkers useful?
With the jump infantry artifact we then get bezerkers with jump, fleet and +3" charge range. They would still have survivability problems but it's an improvement.

**Roknar**

Yea,I would like o know that too about the termies. In an annihilation force they become pretty scary. If you include warlord traits, you could have a non scattering units with 4 S8 Ap3 shots, 8 S5 Ap3 rending shots plus whatever sorceries you get.
After all they could get the cabal power and the brand too and/or a D-Beam. And they could shoot at two units or more with psychic power and for 1 warp charge they can gain storm shields by activating force (not entirely sure on this one).
They may cost enough for 3 equivalent units but they also put out the same amount or more of firepower, albeit once. And their sorc can roll on divination for prescience so they'd get to re-roll all of that to.

That would be a pretty good xmas present for TSons players lol.

**Waaaghpower**

Best start trawling Ebay for anyone piecing out Warhammer Quest boxes. Anyone looking to actually take advantage of the most overpowered Troop Choice in the game is going to need about a billion dollars to do so, since you now need 100 models to fully use a single 20-Man unit of horrors.

**Bach**

Seriously, the trio of horror units is the biggest sleeper in this update. The whole spliting into more units? Wow, that's better than Reanimation Protocols by a mile. Haven't seen the deatchment details yet but I may just run one token 1K sons squad and fill out troop slots with Horrors. Any of the Horror units are pretty much an auto take from what I've seen...unreal.

**mrhappyface**

Bach wrote:
Seriously, the trio of horror units is the biggest sleeper in this update. The whole spliting into more units? Wow, that's better than Reanimation Protocols by a mile. Haven't seen the deatchment details yet but I may just run one token 1K sons squad and fill out troop slots with Horrors. Any of the Horror units are pretty much an auto take from what I've seen...unreal.

I suppose it is balanced out by peoples unwillingness to want to bring 100+ models for every 90pts of horrors they use.

But yes: if you have the time, money, patience and you don't want to make friends then it is the most OP thing in the game.

**Bach**

Well don't forget to bring a bag of extra Chaos Spawn as well since some spells turn enemy units into them

**Skerr**

It hit me last night, late bloomer sorry, that this army is meant to be spear headed by the sorcerers and the marines are really here for body guard support, and tzaangors and horrors there for cheap fodder.

Thus the sorcerers are the linchpin of strategy.

I was looking at this all wrong before.

It seems we need to utilize the ability to gain an extra power so that all our sorcerors can rain some kind of death.

I was playing with list building.

10 man Rubric with Soul Reaper 290

5 Man rubric for 150

5 man rubric for 150

5 man occult for 250

Exalted Sorc (ML3) 185

That is 1025 with only a ML3 and soul reaper cannon upgrade.

My group usually plays in the 1250- 1750 range.

Leaves a little for tzaangors, horrors or other upgrades but is lean.

I went with 2 five man units of Rubirc Marines for board control and an extra sorcerer instead of a second 10 man unit with another soul reaper.

What other strategies?

I realize a coven of some kind is necessary as well.

**Thousand-Son-Sorcerer**

Skerr wrote:
It hit me last night, late bloomer sorry, that this army is meant to be spear headed by the sorcerers and the marines are really here for body guard support, and tzaangors and horrors there for cheap fodder.

Thus the sorcerers are the linchpin of strategy.

I was looking at this all wrong before.

It seems we need to utilize the ability to gain an extra power so that all our sorcerors can rain some kind of death.

I was playing with list building.

10 man Rubric with Soul Reaper 290

5 Man rubric for 150

5 man rubric for 150

5 man occult for 250

Exalted Sorc (ML3) 185

That is 1025 with only a ML3 and soul reaper cannon upgrade.

My group usually plays in the 1250- 1750 range.

Leaves a little for tzaangors, horrors or other upgrades but is lean.

I went with 2 five man units of Rubirc Marines for board control and an extra sorcerer instead of a second 10 man unit with another soul reaper.

What other strategies?

I realize a coven of some kind is necessary as well.

Keep in mind that all the units have soul blaze automatically now, so the Icon is a unknown right now it could make the models much better.

**Yoyoyo**

Skerr wrote:
It hit me last night, late bloomer sorry, that this army is meant to be spear headed by the sorcerers and the marines are really here for body guard support, and tzaangors and horrors there for cheap fodder.

Definitely.

AV and mass marine spam -- Probably need to lean heavily on Haywires from Heretech discipline
Wrathknights -- Seer's Blade, Daemon Weapon, -2 LD debuff. You're wounding on 2's with ID from Force
Riptide Wing -- TS shooting isn't going to do it, that's for sure. LD warfare and Shriek? D attacks? Psychic defence?
Necron Decurions -- with no psychic phase and mass AP3, probably a winning matchup
Horde armies -- meet them with templates and buffed up Tzaangors?

I am thinking the Heldrake formation for the LD debuff and the ability to wreck 3+ units that can outmaneuver the TS. Which will also discourage huddling in cover against the AP3 bolt weapons.

**Thousand-Son-Sorcerer**

This just in from this thread http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/quote/2190/9045764.page

Iuchiban wrote:
buddha wrote:
Thanks Ichiban! What are the auxiliary formations for the thousand sons decurion?

Let's go with formations then:

War cabal:
1 Ahriman, Daemon Prince, Exalted Sorcerer or Sorcerer
1-3 Rubric Marines
1-3 S O Termies
1-3 Exalted Sorcerer or Sorcerer

Benefits:
If formation is maximezed in number of units, reroll 1's to sabe.
I a Psyker manifest one power, during the next Psychic phase the Psyker and his unit may reroll 1's to hit

War Coven
1 Daemon Prince, Sorcerer or Exalted Sorcerer
3-9 Sorcerer of Exalted Sorcerer

Benefits:
Same as War Cabal (reroll 1's to sabe when max)
The formation may choose one of the psychic disciplines of the BRB and cast those powers with 3+, instead of 4+.

Tzangoor warheard
1 Sorcerer or Exalted Sorcerer
3 units of Tzangoors
0-6 units of Tzangoors or Spaws

Benefits:
Fleet
Reroll to save 1's when max
Tzangoors may run and charge. If charge distance is 9 or more, +1S and +1I.

Sehkmet Conclave
1 Sorcerer, Exalted Sorcecer, Daemon Prince, Ahriman or Magnus
3-9 Units of Scarab Termis

Benefits:
Fear
Reroll 1's to sabe if max
Units in this formation have +1T if they are at 6" of any other 2 units of this formation.

Ahriman Exiles
Ahriman
3-9 Exalted Sorcerers

Benefits:
Reroll 1's to sabe if max
Ahriman and any sorcerer at 18" cast powers with 3+.

Rehati War Sect
Magnus
3-9 Daemon Prince, Exalted Sorcerer

Benefits:
Reroll 1's to sabe if max
If at 18" of Magnus, the formation cast powers with 3+, and have line of sight with every unit in the battlefield.

So the problem im seeing is that to reroll saves of 1 you end up paying so many points it wont help you in a game.

**Skerr**

It will be interesting to see if these make the table.

My group really likes to play in the 750-1750 range making the maxed formations a no go.

**winterman**

Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
This just in from this thread http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/quote/2190/9045764.page

Spoiler:

Iuchiban wrote:
buddha wrote:
Thanks Ichiban! What are the auxiliary formations for the thousand sons decurion?

Let's go with formations then:

War cabal:
1 Ahriman, Daemon Prince, Exalted Sorcerer or Sorcerer
1-3 Rubric Marines
1-3 S O Termies
1-3 Exalted Sorcerer or Sorcerer

Benefits:
If formation is maximezed in number of units, reroll 1's to sabe.
I a Psyker manifest one power, during the next Psychic phase the Psyker and his unit may reroll 1's to hit

War Coven
1 Daemon Prince, Sorcerer or Exalted Sorcerer
3-9 Sorcerer of Exalted Sorcerer

Benefits:
Same as War Cabal (reroll 1's to sabe when max)
The formation may choose one of the psychic disciplines of the BRB and cast those powers with 3+, instead of 4+.

Tzangoor warheard
1 Sorcerer or Exalted Sorcerer
3 units of Tzangoors
0-6 units of Tzangoors or Spaws

Benefits:
Fleet
Reroll to save 1's when max
Tzangoors may run and charge. If charge distance is 9 or more, +1S and +1I.

Sehkmet Conclave
1 Sorcerer, Exalted Sorcecer, Daemon Prince, Ahriman or Magnus
3-9 Units of Scarab Termis

Benefits:
Fear
Reroll 1's to sabe if max
Units in this formation have +1T if they are at 6" of any other 2 units of this formation.

Ahriman Exiles
Ahriman
3-9 Exalted Sorcerers

Benefits:
Reroll 1's to sabe if max
Ahriman and any sorcerer at 18" cast powers with 3+.

Rehati War Sect
Magnus
3-9 Daemon Prince, Exalted Sorcerer

Benefits:
Reroll 1's to sabe if max
If at 18" of Magnus, the formation cast powers with 3+, and have line of sight with every unit in the battlefield.

So the problem im seeing is that to reroll saves of 1 you end up paying so many points it wont help you in a game.

Not sold on this but War Cabal on its own seems like the main way at sub 2k points to make good use of the reroll 1s armor save. You can fit 4 sorcerers, 3 min sized rubrics and 3 min sized termies into an 1850 list with room for some upgrades. Figure you bump up size of one of the termintaor squads, get that jump artifact and terminator armor for some or all of the sorcerers. Looks like no chainfists for the terminators so anti armor is definitely an issue. But that much reroll 1s with good shot at 3++ and lots of 2+ armor, could work ok. Probably not though lol.

Other option is via the War Coven. 10 sorcerers in terminator armor joined to something (like the tzangors maybe). Silly as hell deathstar.

**astro_nomicon**

Exiles would be great if you could take regular Sorcerors but he and three Exalteds are hella expensive just to get casts on 3+. Although with rerolls from familiars that's a very dominant and reliable psychic battery to fuel a death star. Those four attached to a unit of 30 tzangoors and the Astral Grimoire (unit becomes junp infantry) maybe?

**Thousand-Son-Sorcerer**

winterman wrote:
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
This just in from this thread http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/quote/2190/9045764.page

Spoiler:

Iuchiban wrote:
buddha wrote:
Thanks Ichiban! What are the auxiliary formations for the thousand sons decurion?

Let's go with formations then:

War cabal:
1 Ahriman, Daemon Prince, Exalted Sorcerer or Sorcerer
1-3 Rubric Marines
1-3 S O Termies
1-3 Exalted Sorcerer or Sorcerer

Benefits:
If formation is maximezed in number of units, reroll 1's to sabe.
I a Psyker manifest one power, during the next Psychic phase the Psyker and his unit may reroll 1's to hit

War Coven
1 Daemon Prince, Sorcerer or Exalted Sorcerer
3-9 Sorcerer of Exalted Sorcerer

Benefits:
Same as War Cabal (reroll 1's to sabe when max)
The formation may choose one of the psychic disciplines of the BRB and cast those powers with 3+, instead of 4+.

Tzangoor warheard
1 Sorcerer or Exalted Sorcerer
3 units of Tzangoors
0-6 units of Tzangoors or Spaws

Benefits:
Fleet
Reroll to save 1's when max
Tzangoors may run and charge. If charge distance is 9 or more, +1S and +1I.

Sehkmet Conclave
1 Sorcerer, Exalted Sorcecer, Daemon Prince, Ahriman or Magnus
3-9 Units of Scarab Termis

Benefits:
Fear
Reroll 1's to sabe if max
Units in this formation have +1T if they are at 6" of any other 2 units of this formation.

Ahriman Exiles
Ahriman
3-9 Exalted Sorcerers

Benefits:
Reroll 1's to sabe if max
Ahriman and any sorcerer at 18" cast powers with 3+.

Rehati War Sect
Magnus
3-9 Daemon Prince, Exalted Sorcerer

Benefits:
Reroll 1's to sabe if max
If at 18" of Magnus, the formation cast powers with 3+, and have line of sight with every unit in the battlefield.

So the problem im seeing is that to reroll saves of 1 you end up paying so many points it wont help you in a game.

Not sold on this but War Cabal on its own seems like the main way at sub 2k points to make good use of the reroll 1s armor save. You can fit 4 sorcerers, 3 min sized rubrics and 3 min sized termies into an 1850 list with room for some upgrades. Figure you bump up size of one of the termintaor squads, get that jump artifact and terminator armor for some or all of the sorcerers. Looks like no chainfists for the terminators so anti armor is definitely an issue. But that much reroll 1s with good shot at 3++ and lots of 2+ armor, could work ok. Probably not though lol.

Other option is via the War Coven. 10 sorcerers in terminator armor joined to something (like the tzangors maybe). Silly as hell deathstar.

with the War Cabal you have 10 Sorcerers 6 from units and 4 from IC sorcerers.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

astro_nomicon wrote:
Exiles would be great if you could take regular Sorcerors but he and three Exalteds are hella expensive just to get casts on 3+. Although with rerolls from familiars that's a very dominant and reliable psychic battery to fuel a death star. Those four attached to a unit of 30 tzangoors and the Astral Grimoire (unit becomes junp infantry) maybe?

You can take the war coven which is the same thing just for 1 psy discipline and can get sorcerers.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Can the Scarab take Combi-Weapons? If so that's gonna be super neat.

**Thousand-Son-Sorcerer**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Can the Scarab take Combi-Weapons? If so that's gonna be super neat.

Not sure but don't see why they wouldn't. I'm more interested in the S5 AP3 Heavy Flamer

**Slayer-Fan123**

Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Can the Scarab take Combi-Weapons? If so that's gonna be super neat.

Not sure but don't see why they wouldn't. I'm more interested in the S5 AP3 Heavy Flamer

Flamers won't be reliable enough on Terminators. I'm thinking the Assault Cannon or ML will be the most popular choices simply because the range is more important than the potential damage from the Flamer.

**andysonic1**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Can the Scarab take Combi-Weapons? If so that's gonna be super neat.

Not sure but don't see why they wouldn't. I'm more interested in the S5 AP3 Heavy Flamer

Flamers won't be reliable enough on Terminators. I'm thinking the Assault Cannon or ML will be the most popular choices simply because the range is more important than the potential damage from the Flamer.

If you're DS'ing termies like you should, flamers come in more handy. Plus with all the movement shenanigans TS can now do, from making a unit jump for a turn to deep striking without scattering sometimes, you can really make full use of termicide with flamers.

**buddha**

Plus the non-formation auxiliary of a demon engine lets you bring a heldrake, helbrute, maulerfiend, forgefiend, as just one offs which is great.

Based on the rules i'm also liking some of the formations from traitors hate to turn into TS detachments. The cult of destruction and raptor talon seem promising to support a TS decurion or as one offs.

**Skerr**

Has anyone attempted to huild lists with what we have so far? I saw the numbers on the war coven .

In order to offer some variety in 1750 or less games the formations will make it hard to squeeze in much else.

While I agree the jump artifact is cool the helm seems an auto include for me.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
With a blessing is the best save we can get a 3++?

If so failing a save on a 2 and getting rerolls on a 1 seems like there would be a high tax. A lot of the formations at max seem like they are designed to be used on their own with little support from other units outside the formation which is the reason for the high price tag.

I am not a DA Death Wing expert but take Belial and pimp out 3 units of DW termies as troops in drop pods and you at 1500-2000 correct?

Do the formations without the rerollable save benefit look good to anyone? when you really look at it as nice as the benefit is it is skirting the lines of invincibility army wide.

Why not use the number of units in the formation you need and forgo the nigh-uber invincibility?

**Ir0njack**

I see folks bemoaning the cost of the 1kson marines, but with the hordes of tzaangors and pink horrors kicking around I think they'll be able to take the pressure off the expensive SOT and Rubrics who'll shred anything not sporting a 2+ while sorcs use psychic powers to bring down those big nasties. Just my initial thoughts after looking at everything.

I feel like the formations are kinda a raw deal that could have been so much better if you didn't need max units, it just makes it impractical points wise and upsets the balance of units that it seems like 1ksons want to be a TAC. I'm by no means a competitive player but I do see this as a boost in power to csm (I know, that's not a very high bar) but it seems like 1kson are going to favor plans upon plans in a very tzeentchian fashion and will reward the player that knows them in and out.

**Thousand-Son-Sorcerer**

Ir0njack wrote:
I see folks bemoaning the cost of the 1kson marines, but with the hordes of tzaangors and pink horrors kicking around I think they'll be able to take the pressure off the expensive SOT and Rubrics who'll shred anything not sporting a 2+ while sorcs use psychic powers to bring down those big nasties. Just my initial thoughts after looking at everything.

I feel like the formations are kinda a raw deal that could have been so much better if you didn't need max units, it just makes it impractical points wise and upsets the balance of units that it seems like 1ksons want to be a TAC. I'm by no means a competitive player but I do see this as a boost in power to csm (I know, that's not a very high bar) but it seems like 1kson are going to favor plans upon plans in a very tzeentchian fashion and will reward the player that knows them in and out.

What your not taking into account is that you will have no room for upgrades once you have taken the stuff you want. Just 2 units of SOT and 3 units of TS is 950 points, that's no HQ and no upgrades.