Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Sasori wrote:
That's not the case unfortunately. Thousand Sons are limited to the WoM formations.

Are they not generic to the CSM faction?

Not sure what the complaints about those formations are. Traitor's hate is still valid. It has the renegade knight which wasn't listed in legions and it has the Black Crusade detachment, which also wasn't listed.
So any legion, including TSons, can still make a black crusade detachment and can still use the formations with their legion benefits on their own.
TSons just don't get these in a grand coven detachment or whatever their decurion is called.

Yoyoyo wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
That's not the case unfortunately. Thousand Sons are limited to the WoM formations.

Are they not generic to the CSM faction?

The thousand sons has a specefic provision that you can only take from the detachments listed, and it then lists all the TKS detachments.

No ? It says any detachment can be thousand sons.
Are you thinking of the war coven?

 Sasori wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
That's not the case unfortunately. Thousand Sons are limited to the WoM formations.

Are they not generic to the CSM faction?

The thousand sons has a specefic provision that you can only take from the detachments listed, and it then lists all the TKS detachments.

Your talking about the Grand War Coven which is an FBD and can only use formations from WoM. Anything else can be used as a TS detachment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Yoyoyo wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
That's not the case unfortunately. Thousand Sons are limited to the WoM formations.

Are they not generic to the CSM faction?

They are hes thinking of the Grand War Coven which is the TS FBD

Can scarab termies be taken in the termie traitors hate formation?

Not as far as I can tell, they seem to be a normal elite choice.

So I know the thread says currently Thousand Sons, but would this be an appropriate place to ask about Emperor's Children? I am wondering if anyone has any experience with Noise Marines. I am seeing some wicked combos involving sonic weaponry and the combat phase, as in you could lock a gun line down with pinning and ignores cover, then sweep them with an assault afterwards. Throw on the fact that they can have split fire and you can pin 2 units at the same time. Anyone know how nasty that can be?

macluvin wrote:
So I know the thread says currently Thousand Sons, but would this be an appropriate place to ask about Emperor's Children? I am wondering if anyone has any experience with Noise Marines. I am seeing some wicked combos involving sonic weaponry and the combat phase, as in you could lock a gun line down with pinning and ignores cover, then sweep them with an assault afterwards. Throw on the fact that they can have split fire and you can pin 2 units at the same time. Anyone know how nasty that can be?

Yes the OP even created a list which he needs to update.

OP hasn't replied once in his own thread.

I would just make a new post!

Incidentally, TDA Sorcerers can replace their combi-weapons with Chainfists. Maybe that's the answer to the lack of TS anti-armour?

Yoyoyo wrote:
OP hasn't replied once in his own thread.

I would just make a new post!

Incidentally, TDA Sorcerers can replace their combi-weapons with Chainfists. Maybe that's the answer to the lack of TS anti-armour?

Relying on a single model in a single unit is not much of a reliable answer.

Of course not, you'd need more than one.

Can Opener (192pts) :

Sorc w/ML3
TDA, Chainfist
Mark/VotLW/Familiar
1x Tzeentch power, 2x Heretech power

The 3x Haywires in Heretech are pretty effective at HP scrubbing, you've also got Doombolt/Devolution/Siphon which could help. Treason and Corrupt Machine seem more situational, they might be very good if you're firing with Ignores Cover Grav or Avenger Cannons.

It's no joke. The war cabal leaves so few points for antitank. Herretech is a good call!

The benefits of being psyker heavy-you can choose your powers AFTER seeing what the enemy brought to the table.

Flexibility has value.

It feels like everything without a innate Invulnerable Save is best left on the shelf when playing pure Thousand Sons, while units with a innate Invuln synergises so much that they all more or less seem fieldable.

Units best left on the shelf/without innate IV;

*Regular CSM's.
*Chosen.
*Bikers.
*Raptors.
*Havocs.

Units which synergises well with MoTz;
*Possessed.
*Terminators.
*Mutilators.
*Warp Talons.
*Obliterators.

Jury is out;
*Cultists. Doesn't really synergise with MoTz, but are still the cheapest unit we can bring. Tzaangors are +2ppm for +1WS and +1T. Time will tell what's the best fodder-unit/objective holder.

*Spawns. Also doesn't really synergise with MoTz, but spawns are, and have been for many years, very cost-effective. Either way, due to Transmogrify, any TS-player worth his...dust...should have a couple of theese.

Well, its not like the MoT is free.

If you didn't MoT these units BEFORE, little to no reason to take them for 1ksons, especially if they are the kind that don't really get blessed.

Warp talons in particular are pointless. you got so much AP3 already, that getting the talons for even more AP3 is outright absurd.
Mutilators and possessed are bad regardless of marks, the base unit is bad.
Terminators, you got scarabs. why then?
Oblits, actually carry some value. they give much neede gun verity.


As for the best fodder/objective holder for 1ksons, its without question, horrors. (just get a herald and you can spam horrors as you like. personally I prefer blues.)

I would argue terminators are more competitive than scarabs.
I agree on the rest. The ability to make them jump gives possessed and mutilators a boost, but not enough.

Oblitorators can gain a lot from blessings, so definitely a good option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spawns are coming out possibly the best option for a bodyguard to disc sorcerers.
(Tho thematic terrible, I prefer flesh hounds )

Keep in mind you've got a few psychic abilities that get you to a 3++ without an innate Invul.

Forewarning (Divination)
--> This is a no-brainer on Cultists, Tzaangors, or Spawn (3++)
--> Daemon Princes go to a 3++

TK Dome (Telekinesis)
--> Limited to a 12" radius but it's a 4++ on Marks, 3++ on VotLW units
--> 4++ on a Daemon Prince

Cursed Earth (Malefic)
--> All Daemon units to a 3++

Empyric Shield (Ectomancy)
--> Brings a DP to a 2++

Armour of Hatred (Sinistrum)
--> Limited to Witchfires but it's functionally an area 3++ with Adamantium Will as a freebie.

The bigger question is where and when it's worth fishing on these tables, especially since you can't rely on generating any single power.

Forewarning is awesome on MoN Spawn and I ALWAYS fish for that and Iron Arm.

Nobody has said much about the Daemon Princes, but that TS staff relic makes them absolute monsters.

Once you activate Force they're already on a 4++.

Yoyoyo wrote:
Nobody has said much about the Daemon Princes, but that TS staff relic makes them absolute monsters.

Once you activate Force they're already on a 4++.

Actually, the staff (Seer's Bane, I assume, that wounds on Leadership) is actually better on Exalted Sorcerers. They are Leadership 10, as opposed to a Prince's 9. So Sorcerers double out T5, whereas Princes don't.

Wrong relic... it is the "Staff of Arcane Compulsion".

Ah. What's that one do?

Yoyoyo wrote:
Of course not, you'd need more than one.

Can Opener (192pts) :

Sorc w/ML3
TDA, Chainfist
Mark/VotLW/Familiar
1x Tzeentch power, 2x Heretech power

The 3x Haywires in Heretech are pretty effective at HP scrubbing, you've also got Doombolt/Devolution/Siphon which could help. Treason and Corrupt Machine seem more situational, they might be very good if you're firing with Ignores Cover Grav or Avenger Cannons.

And what if you get Machine Curse and Warpmetal Armor? now your left with nothing to take out tanks except a 200 point chainfist. On that point how many of these should I take 2? 3? 4? Even in you take only 2 your just dropped 20% of a 2k army into 2 models that may not be able to do anything they are supposed to do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BoomWolf wrote:
The benefits of being psyker heavy-you can choose your powers AFTER seeing what the enemy brought to the table.

Flexibility has value.

Flexibility has value if you can reliably put the unit out there at a reasonable cost. The problem comes when you look at the prices they are so much that having a CHANCE at getting what you NEED, is not worth it.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

Spawns are coming out possibly the best option for a bodyguard to disc sorcerers.
(Tho thematic terrible, I prefer flesh hounds )

As a tau player I can safely say, the best bodyguard for disc sorcerers is none at all.

T5 is cute, but the real defense comes from being able to move out, throw your spells, than turboboost to safty of LOS blockers.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Ah. What's that one do?

Gives anything that charges the bearer or his unit -2 to charge, so that's -4 going through terrain unless you've got MtC and since you're an MC, there's very little reason for you not to finish your move in terrain. Also hands out +2 str ap4, so your prince is now str 8 base and also AP2 because smash. It's a pretty good deal for 10 points.

 MinscS2 wrote:
It feels like everything without a innate Invulnerable Save is best left on the shelf when playing pure Thousand Sons, while units with a innate Invuln synergises so much that they all more or less seem fieldable.

Units best left on the shelf/without innate IV;

*Regular CSM's.
*Chosen.
*Bikers.
*Raptors.
*Havocs.

Units which synergises well with MoTz;
*Possessed.
*Terminators.
*Mutilators.
*Warp Talons.
*Obliterators.

Jury is out;
*Cultists. Doesn't really synergise with MoTz, but are still the cheapest unit we can bring. Tzaangors are +2ppm for +1WS and +1T. Time will tell what's the best fodder-unit/objective holder.

*Spawns. Also doesn't really synergise with MoTz, but spawns are, and have been for many years, very cost-effective. Either way, due to Transmogrify, any TS-player worth his...dust...should have a couple of these.

On the units best left out point if you can get TK dome you can have 3 units of raptors with a 3++ against shooting, that goes for every thing else in that list, but the raptors/bikers would benefit the most from it from what I can see. In fact if you could get TK dome relibly you could have an entire army of models with 3++ saves and pay WAYYYYYYYY less then you would have to for TS and SOT

Just a point on possessed. TSons can still take Traitor's Hate formations so have access to the favoured of chaos formation. That makes possessed 3+/3++ (with blessing), jump with the artfiact and gives them all mutations. You still have to deal with the other 2 possessed units so as a whole it's still kinda meh, but that one possessed unit is pretty scary. It combines the best results from the CS possessed table with all the damage from the normal table. with no random elements involved except for terrain, for which you also have a warlord trait.

 Roknar wrote:
Not sure what the complaints about those formations are. Traitor's hate is still valid. It has the renegade knight which wasn't listed in legions and it has the Black Crusade detachment, which also wasn't listed.
So any legion, including TSons, can still make a black crusade detachment and can still use the formations with their legion benefits on their own.
TSons just don't get these in a grand coven detachment or whatever their decurion is called.

Actually from the leaks, granted they aren't verified, all of the legion detachments in traitor legions are the black crusade detachment. They may be called something different but the core and aux formations that make them up are the same ones from traitors hate exactly. I'm confused and still trying to figure it out but it seems like you take the black crusade detachment and get to add a legion specific rule on top of it.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:
Nobody has said much about the Daemon Princes, but that TS staff relic makes them absolute monsters.

Once you activate Force they're already on a 4++.

Actually, the staff (Seer's Bane, I assume, that wounds on Leadership) is actually better on Exalted Sorcerers. They are Leadership 10, as opposed to a Prince's 9. So Sorcerers double out T5, whereas Princes don't.

A prince gets +1 Ld from VotLW.