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2016/12/19 19:55:07
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
Roknar wrote: Aaaaaand he would still be leadership 10, aka you wound him on a 4+ The only power that would reduce it's leadership and therefore make you wound better, would be terrify. That makes you wound on a 3+. After that you would need leadership debuffs from other places, like formations or relics.
You wouldn't need nothing else other than a couple of blessings and/or maledictions. Take a prescience (primaris so you can definitely get it) and force. I'm giving these buffs because they are primaris and you can have them on demand and multiple times. Let's say that other than that, you rolled the worst dice ever and you have zero other useful blessings. Here's why it's enough:
You have 9 attacks on average. Hitting on a 3+ with rerolls should net you 8 hits. Wounding on 4+ should net you 4 wounds with instant death. A Wraithknight has what, 5++? So he saves one of the wounds and takes 3xd3 wounds without his feel no pain (it's instant death, baby). He is statistically dead in a single strike. And I'm not even counting the rest of the exiles who might put a wound too with their force staves. So you kill a Wraithknight past his defenses in a single turn with average dice, with no useful powers rolled and no warp charges spent on anything other than primaris powers.
I'll say it once more. The Seer's Bane is the best weapon written in the game so far.
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2016/12/19 19:55:45
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
nintura wrote: Not sure how Seer's Bane is really that much better than a regular Daemon Weapon It only has the LD vs LD and using LD as S v T. I mean, it's an obvious advantage, but it's not heads and shoulders better.
It's str 10 against toughness for instant death, and it has force for instant death nonetheless. It's ap2 on itself, while things like the black mace are only ap4 and you need a DP to make them work. It is, really really broken.
The black mace isn't a daemon weapon is it? I thought all DW's were the same. Roll a d6 etc etc, AP 2.
Black mace is a an ap4 dameon weapon. You only think it's ap2 becuase it sucks on everything that isn't a daemon prince, so everybody brings it on a prince, making it Ap2.
Roknar wrote: Aaaaaand he would still be leadership 10, aka you wound him on a 4+ The only power that would reduce it's leadership and therefore make you wound better, would be terrify. That makes you wound on a 3+. After that you would need leadership debuffs from other places, like formations or relics.
You wouldn't need nothing else other than a couple of blessings and/or maledictions. Take a prescience (primaris so you can definitely get it) and force. I'm giving these buffs because they are primaris and you can have them on demand and multiple times. Let's say that other than that, you rolled the worst dice ever and you have zero other useful blessings. Here's why it's enough:
You have 9 attacks on average. Hitting on a 3+ with rerolls should net you 8 hits. Wounding on 4+ should net you 4 wounds with instant death. A Wraithknight has what, 5++? So he saves one of the wounds and takes 3xd3 wounds without his feel no pain (it's instant death, baby). He is statistically dead in a single strike. And I'm not even counting the rest of the exiles who might put a wound too with their force staves. So you kill a Wraithknight past his defenses in a single turn with average dice, with no useful powers rolled and no warp charges spent on anything other than primaris powers.
I'll say it once more. The Seer's Bane is the best weapon written in the game so far.
I know it's awesome. I was just saying that no amount of psychic buffs and/ or debuffs make you wound it better. Except for terrify which is a gamble to get.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/19 19:57:34
2016/12/19 19:57:42
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
nintura wrote: Not sure how Seer's Bane is really that much better than a regular Daemon Weapon It only has the LD vs LD and using LD as S v T. I mean, it's an obvious advantage, but it's not heads and shoulders better.
It's str 10 against toughness for instant death, and it has force for instant death nonetheless. It's ap2 on itself, while things like the black mace are only ap4 and you need a DP to make them work. It is, really really broken.
The black mace isn't a daemon weapon is it? I thought all DW's were the same. Roll a d6 etc etc, AP 2.
Black mace is a daemon weapon. Daemon weapons only get the +d6 attacks/ get screwed on a 1 part. They are not ap2 by default. The black mace is for all purposes a power maul (+2 str , ap4).
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2016/12/19 19:57:58
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
nintura wrote: Not sure how Seer's Bane is really that much better than a regular Daemon Weapon It only has the LD vs LD and using LD as S v T. I mean, it's an obvious advantage, but it's not heads and shoulders better.
It's str 10 against toughness for instant death, and it has force for instant death nonetheless. It's ap2 on itself, while things like the black mace are only ap4 and you need a DP to make them work. It is, really really broken.
The black mace isn't a daemon weapon is it? I thought all DW's were the same. Roll a d6 etc etc, AP 2.
Black mace is a an ap4 dameon weapon. You only think it's ap2 becuase it sucks on everything that isn't a daemon prince, so everybody brings it on a prince, making it Ap2.
I think I'm thinking of previous versions where you could buy generic daemon weapons, they were all AP 2.
Best part? I believe 1k sons should be played like Hero Hammer. When you think about it, CSM is all about the strongest making everyone else follow them. You think Abaddon puts up with someone elses gak? Of course not. You think that Exalted Sorc is going to let an aspiring sorcerer tell him what to do? Hell nah! Homie don't share! Make him the hero he was meant to be.
Got another game in with my full cabal list against a riptide wing, double stormsurges, and small tau cad with some marker drones. I didn't get any death hexes this time and rolled a depressing 3 boon of mutations and 4 breath of chaoses...
Shrouding was my hero this game keeping my units in two tight groups so they had rerollable 2+ cover saves (reroll on a 4 because of ITC) and he couldn't fit in many markerlights to strip that. Keeping the units tight to give everyone shrouding and the +1 invul was scary with all the Str9 and Str 10 ap2 blasts he had, but I was able to weather the storm well by limiting LOS as best I could.
I got the side of the table with more objectives (playing ITC mission 2) so I was able to kind of sit on them and cast blessings to accrue points.
Wasn't able to close on the riptides with more than a couple shrieks and doombolts so I only got a few wounds on them but I did take out both stormsurges with a combo of one occult term squad, one rubric squad, and one level 3 sorc. Force and diabolic strength helped me cut through them quickly. He only got 1 stomp of a 6 though and I was able to easily look out sir that away.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/19 23:50:12
2016/12/19 23:59:48
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
Even with some of the weakest spells you pulled off victory through points and smart play? Great job and good to hear.
Do you play your opponent often?
What have been reactions from other players, guys?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Has anyone had any luck with the Silver Tower strike?
Most of the lists I have written include 3 exalted sorcerers and this attack seems best to unload on a turn 1 alpha strike unless night fighting is in effect.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/12/20 00:05:44
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2016/12/20 01:13:16
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
My opponents have been different every time so far, but it's usually one of the same 6-8 players I'm going against. I haven't gotten to play any exalted sorcs or magnus yet unfortunately, but I'll remedy that this Friday.
My next game will probably actually be the cabal detachment with the following
Chaos Cultists [Cultist Champion , 9x Cultists, Mark of Tzeentch ]
Chaos Cultists [Cultist Champion , 9x Cultists, Mark of Tzeentch ]
+ Fast Attack +
Chaos Spawn [Mark of Tzeentch, 2x Spawn]
+ Lord of War +
Magnus the Red
Cultists camps out...
E.Sorc with super-sword goes with the TzSpawns to hunt characters and MC.
TzHeraled will probably be Maelific to summon daemons and try for cursed earth.
Fatey does what he does...
LoC is my beatstick (with Grimore... I should prolly move that to one of my TzHerald)...
Maggie does his thing.
Thoughts?
My initial inclination is you don't have nearly enough WC to support Fatey and Magnus both in this list. Either one can easily burn 10+ charges individually and I assume the goal with the Paradox herald is summoning so there goes another 5. That is 25 charges and you only guarantee 21. Of course you can choose to do less with your big models, but if you are only going to use them for small stuff why pay for the big guys?
2016/12/20 03:26:37
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
Nobody really runs a WK with sword/shield at the top level anymore, just a bunch of Skataknights. Seersbane will rip through those and almost every non-MC characters that does not have EW in this game. The problem is TS alone doesn't really have a efficient way to run a deathstar with enough models to tank wounds in order to protect the key ICs. And TS Sorcerers has less chance to get Warp Fate.
2016/12/20 03:42:02
Subject: Re:My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
Chaos Cultists [Cultist Champion , 9x Cultists, Mark of Tzeentch ]
Chaos Cultists [Cultist Champion , 9x Cultists, Mark of Tzeentch ]
+ Fast Attack +
Chaos Spawn [Mark of Tzeentch, 2x Spawn]
+ Lord of War +
Magnus the Red
Cultists camps out...
E.Sorc with super-sword goes with the TzSpawns to hunt characters and MC.
TzHeraled will probably be Maelific to summon daemons and try for cursed earth.
Fatey does what he does...
LoC is my beatstick (with Grimore... I should prolly move that to one of my TzHerald)...
Maggie does his thing.
Thoughts?
My initial inclination is you don't have nearly enough WC to support Fatey and Magnus both in this list. Either one can easily burn 10+ charges individually and I assume the goal with the Paradox herald is summoning so there goes another 5. That is 25 charges and you only guarantee 21. Of course you can choose to do less with your big models, but if you are only going to use them for small stuff why pay for the big guys?
I can see 10+ WC for maggie... but I almost never do that with Fatey... :shrug:
I tend to be really aggressive with MC too... so, it's not a given that Maggie + LoC is flying. (Fatey flies period)
If I need WC, I can shoot for summoning a horror squad every turn...
Hmmm...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SonsofVulkan wrote: Nobody really runs a WK with sword/shield at the top level anymore, just a bunch of Skataknights. Seersbane will rip through those and almost every non-MC characters that does not have EW in this game. The problem is TS alone doesn't really have a efficient way to run a deathstar with enough models to tank wounds in order to protect the key ICs. And TS Sorcerers has less chance to get Warp Fate.
That's why I wanna try the E.Sorc + TzSpawns...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/20 03:43:09
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2016/12/20 05:01:07
Subject: Re:My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
TS aren't necessarily best played as a deathstar, though.
They specialize in psychic shooting and judo throws. Invisible? Beam weapons. Scary shooting units? Treason of Tzeentch. Layered saves? Not for long. Multiple wounds + FNP? Try Instant Death. High toughness? Wound on LD. ICs vulnerable to shooting? Psychic shunts and 24" turbo into LOS cover. Slow-moving infantry? Lend them a 12" jump.
Honestly, it seems.... inelegant... to make Exalted Sorcerers into a second-rate Cabalstar, when they can simply Doombolt rival deathstars into oblivion straight through their puny psychic defenses.
2016/12/20 06:59:08
Subject: Re:My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
Yoyoyo wrote: TS aren't necessarily best played as a deathstar, though.
They specialize in psychic shooting and judo throws. Invisible? Beam weapons. Scary shooting units? Treason of Tzeentch. Layered saves? Not for long. Multiple wounds + FNP? Try Instant Death. High toughness? Wound on LD. ICs vulnerable to shooting? Psychic shunts and 24" turbo into LOS cover. Slow-moving infantry? Lend them a 12" jump.
Honestly, it seems.... inelegant... to make Exalted Sorcerers into a second-rate Cabalstar, when they can simply Doombolt rival deathstars into oblivion straight through their puny psychic defenses.
Well a exalted sorcerer on disk with a seer bane, is like 250+ pt he needs to be in combat to make his it's back. If you send him up with a small unit, he's not gonna last long since any S8 will ID him.
TS is too expensive to run MSU efficiently, and there is a mobility issue. Astral grim will help one unit jump 12", but the rest of your army are foot slogging.
SM deathstars all have 3 or 4++, T5 and fnp. If they have tear of veil, you'll need to pray you roll deathhex
2016/12/20 08:09:39
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
disk of tz only grants +1 attack and the jet bike rule
And jet bikes add +1 T. Hence why they're so expensive (cause not eldar).
I was wondering what the correct stats are for discs. My brother was telling me it was just +1 attack and jetbike USR. But I thought it was +1 T as well. I'm not a competitive daemon player, more of a casual atm.
2016/12/20 14:38:26
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
Another neat thing about Discs is that you get that wonderful 12" move, then shoot all you want in the Psychic Phase, then turbo-boost 24" away out of reach during your shooting phase. It can be quite annoying to play against
nintura wrote: Another neat thing about Discs is that you get that wonderful 12" move, then shoot all you want in the Psychic Phase, then turbo-boost 24" away out of reach during your shooting phase. It can be quite annoying to play against
...and relentless, so you can drop your silver tower bomb without having to forgo movement.
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2016/12/20 14:56:56
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
nintura wrote: Another neat thing about Discs is that you get that wonderful 12" move, then shoot all you want in the Psychic Phase, then turbo-boost 24" away out of reach during your shooting phase. It can be quite annoying to play against
...and relentless, so you can drop your silver tower bomb without having to forgo movement.
I didnt realize you had to forgo your movement? Isn't it done in your movement phase? I dont have my book on-hand though.
nintura wrote: Another neat thing about Discs is that you get that wonderful 12" move, then shoot all you want in the Psychic Phase, then turbo-boost 24" away out of reach during your shooting phase. It can be quite annoying to play against
...and relentless, so you can drop your silver tower bomb without having to forgo movement.
I didnt realize you had to forgo your movement? Isn't it done in your movement phase? I dont have my book on-hand though.
No, it's a shooting attack and it's heavy so...
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2016/12/20 16:27:28
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
At least. And I would recommend Seer's Bane on at least one. Im pretty sure to be the most effective, Thousand Sons needs to be built like the old Hero Hammer days. Though I did have a foot slogging one, he didn't have the disc but I gave him the astral grim so the rubrics with warpflamers could move faster and get in better flaming positions.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/20 16:38:02
The only power that would reduce it's leadership and therefore make you wound better, would be terrify. That makes you wound on a 3+. After that you would need leadership debuffs from other places, like formations or relics.
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It only has the 
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can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now.