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So I've decided to make an Imperial Guard Armoured Battlegroup, going by the name, 5th Armour Company of the 912th Regiment(using my personal DoW colour patter, an urban winter colour scheme) . I have a warlord issue though, seeing as it focuses on armour, and I have very little infantry. Is it possible to have a tank (without a tank commander) be the warlord? I want to make my CCT (company command tank) my warlord, but as I have checked I cannot have a tank commander in my CCT, though I plan to put one because it looks cool. I could make my armoured fist commander be the warlord but would rather not. I provided the list to help clear up what units I'm using (and am welcome to suggestions on how to improve it):

Using the Imperial Armour Version 1 Edition 2 point value and the Armoured Battlegroup force orginzation chart (note thanks to magnetization upgrades and varients of LRs will not be provided as they can change on the fly! all leman russes will defualt have sponson bolters though)


HQ:
Company Command Tank
Armoured Fist Command Squad

Elite:
Commissar Tank
Tank Destroyer

Troops:
LR
Armour Fist Vets (+5 more)
Armour Fist Vets (+5 more)

Fast Attack:
Vendetta
Vendetta
Banewolf

Heavy Support:
Basilisk
Basilisk
Hydra (will be replaced with more upgrades if the enemy lacks air support)

I think you're either asking if your Command Tank can be the warlord, and the answer to that is yes, or if you're allowed to model the commander coming out of the cupola, for which the answer is also yes.

I'm not sure exactly what the question is, I'm afraid.

The company command tank has a tank commander inside it already. He can issue any of the Armour Battle Group orders. You can also take any of the other ABG tank commanders that are named ones.

If you are hoping there is a tank commander you can take so you can upgrade to Pask, the answer is nope. Sorry.

BRB pg 124 wrote:
When choosing your army, you must nominate one model to be your Warlord. Unless specified otherwise, this must be a character model. If you don't have any character models in your army, then select any other model in your army...

The ABG tank commander significantly is *not* a character, so unless you remove all other character models from your army - the Fist Command squad and Sgts from your fist squads (which means removing the whole squad) - he can't in fact be your warlord.

If you do remove them all, you can have any tank you like as your warlord. Hell, use a Vendetta. Having never realised this, I am absolutely going to make my Reaver my warlord the next time the ABG takes the field in a big game.

Point of note though, you can only have 1 *squadron* of vendettas/vultures per CAD, and possibly per army. I do not at all recommend running vendettas in squadrons as they die that much easier, and will overkill anything they shoot at in most cases, wasting shots.

Also; if you want to tank your warlord drop the Commisar tank and take a second company command tank - this gives you 2 tank orders per turn.

You don't seem to have taken special ammunition for your HQ and you commissar tank.
Thoses ammo are really important and powerful, you should take some (Beast hunter shells rocks !).
The tank destroyer, IIRC, has only 1 shot/turn, at BS4. That's not great, but as I love the model, I can give him a pass^^

I think you just haven't written the gear/equipment of your soldiers / tanks.

With two vendetta, I don't think you need the Hydra.

Yep, just hunted through the rulebook (had checked the codex, not the rulebook before writing this) most definatly needs to be a character unless there are none. Well, I guess I may be saying good bye to the vets, and say hello to more tanks and upgrades. Sorry for the confusion, the question was simply can my command tank be my warlord. I brought up the tank commander because I think he can count a character, but the CCT does not say it has a Tank Commander. As for Pask, I wasn't asking, but thanks for letting me now, the queation did cross my mind.

As far as I know I can have two vendettas in an ABG, (using the forgeworld Imperial Armour ABG not the CAD)

Drop the commissar tank for more order, ok, except than I lose the commissar (probably will drop him though)

That is correct I haven't written the gear because magnets, didn't know special ammo was very useful, thank-you.

But having played World of Tanks(I know not the best game, but that was my childhood) and being a huge fan of german heavies, russian heavies and german TDs (tank destroyers) it brings back good memories, especially with the leman russes get inspiration from the russian tanks (with a bit of mark WWI british tanks in my opinion)

Drop the hydra Vendettas will take care of it, ok, save some points lose the good omen, and more points for upgrades sounds great! (not scaractic)

As for the Vendetta, would this be tactically superior because it annoys the lore fanatic side of me.

But, on the other hand, the ABG hydra is the most powerful hydra of the Guard: it still has the old "ignore cover" rule.

An example:
My two last games: my vanquisher with beast hunter shells killed a Trygon with only one shoot, and last game, he killed a dreadknight, with one shot, too (unfortunately, the dreadnight was my friend 's dreadnight, and the shot deviated on it ! ).
(I only tried beast hunter shells, but I will test infernus shells soon).


Don't overlook commissar tanks: a BS4 is valuable, it can be useful.

Don't bother with cyclops: even if I had fun with them, they aren't a good unit, at all.

(be aware that your armored wall of AV14 isn't very resistant in fact: with so many grav, melta, haywire, lance... And assault (assault = AV10 for your poor Russes), a lot of things can hurt badly your tanks).

 godardc wrote:
But, on the other hand, the ABG hydra is the most powerful hydra of the Guard: it still has the old "ignore cover" rule.

An example:
My two last games: my vanquisher with beast hunter shells killed a Trygon with only one shoot, and last game, he killed a dreadknight, with one shot, too (unfortunately, the dreadnight was my friend 's dreadnight, and the shot deviated on it ! ).
(I only tried beast hunter shells, but I will test infernus shells soon).

Better to have fun with a friend and lose than to crush a friend and lose them. Well, at least "we die standing".

Don't overlook commissar tanks: a BS4 is valuable, it can be useful.

Commissar Tanks are cool, but CCTs have bs4 and can give an order, while Commissar Tanks give infantry a buff, which I said bye to.

Don't bother with cyclops: even if I had fun with them, they aren't a good unit, at all.

Never heard of cyclops, what are they?

(be aware that your armored wall of AV14 isn't very resistant in fact: with so many grav, melta, haywire, lance... And assault (assault = AV10 for your poor Russes), a lot of things can hurt badly your tanks).

I know tanks are worse than infantry and Guard aren't top tier, doesn't change why I started playhing them, their look and feel.

CommanderRednaxela wrote:
Yep, just hunted through the rulebook (had checked the codex, not the rulebook before writing this) most definatly needs to be a character unless there are none.

Maybe by strictest RAW, but remember that IA1 was released in 6th edition so this is just a minor edition problem. The obvious RAI is that the HQ tanks have a "this unit may be your warlord" rule much like codex HQ tanks, and you can always taken one (and have a warlord trait) regardless of the presence of non-vehicle characters in your army. It doesn't make any sense for a random infantry squad sergeant to be forced to be your warlord over the company command tank.

The simpliest thing you can do is to take another CAD with regular Guard with command squad (this will be your warlord) and two troos. If you do not have enough troops, deploy a infantry platoon (or 2) or deploy 2 more mechanised veterans.

But using common sense, if something's called "Company command tank" it should be able to be a warlord.
Check the codex carefully, if it's stated there.
Codex rules are superior to BRB.
I remember thet there was the same issue with tank commander, where some claimed that regular tank commander can't be a warlord or give orders due to lack od Ld stat.

// It's also worth to mention that ABG Executioner does not have the Get's hot! rule. But it's also considerably more expensive.

 Hawky wrote:

But using common sense, if something's called "Company command tank" it should be able to be a warlord.

Oh it can be the warlord, just so long as you only have vehicles. 6th's requirement for the warlord was that it A. be a HQ choice and B. have the highest leadership, with a tie going to whoever. With the leadership value of '-' you could still choose the CCT if there were no other choices. It's the ABG rules which allow for a model with the Company Command Tank to take those (and only those) warlord traits which allows *basically* the same thing as the IG/AM version, but through a different rule path.

Given that forgeworld rules are obsolete but have a happy legacy of being resilient and often vastly more fluff based, this actually makes sense. In several fluff pieces, Gaunts Ghost's for example, a big deal is made of Tank regiment commanders being subordinate to Infantry regiment staff, so I have the distinct impression this was actually intentional, but implemented in a way that's now obsolete.

 Hawky wrote:

// It's also worth to mention that ABG Executioner does not have the Get's hot! rule. But it's also considerably more expensive.

It's Ryza Pattern


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CommanderRednaxela wrote:

As for the Vendetta, would this be tactically superior because it annoys the lore fanatic side of me.

Ask the folks who can have Flyrants.

But in lore side, give it a giant radar dish to function as an armed AWACS field command.

Ok thanks for all the feedback, I've decided against the infantry (5th Armoured Company will be a fully mechanized force!!) and shall be replaced with, more tanks!! Meaning, MORE DAKKA!!!!!! Anyway, my CCT shall be my warlord, Vendetta just seems off to me (and boeing's air command plane thing looks like they strapped a radar to a commericial plane and called it a day, so GO MURICA!, *sarcasm*)

Except the 912th is tanith, so they operate slightly differently (like all regiments will).


Thank-you all, and may the Emperor bless you.

To the OP the best use for your commissar and command tank is bolting on coaxil stubber, hull lascannon, sponson heavy bolters and beast hunter shells. You now have effectively a unit that can do decent damage to horde units, a reliable AT platform and something that will make MC's cry salty tears.

Your AA seems a little over the top. You already have two vendetta's so the hydra seems pretty pointless. Also I'd recommend adding a vulture to the list with punisher cannons for extremely OP ground support that will shred all light/medium infantry and vehicles. Maybe magnetize for the HK Missile Vulture AT which actually is more reliable at knocking all but the heaviest tanks out than a vanilla BS3 Vanquisher for it's points (from both lists).

 malamis wrote:

 Hawky wrote:

But using common sense, if something's called "Company command tank" it should be able to be a warlord.

Oh it can be the warlord, just so long as you only have vehicles. 6th's requirement for the warlord was that it A. be a HQ choice and B. have the highest leadership, with a tie going to whoever. With the leadership value of '-' you could still choose the CCT if there were no other choices. It's the ABG rules which allow for a model with the Company Command Tank to take those (and only those) warlord traits which allows *basically* the same thing as the IG/AM version, but through a different rule path.

Given that forgeworld rules are obsolete but have a happy legacy of being resilient and often vastly more fluff based, this actually makes sense. In several fluff pieces, Gaunts Ghost's for example, a big deal is made of Tank regiment commanders being subordinate to Infantry regiment staff, so I have the distinct impression this was actually intentional, but implemented in a way that's now obsolete.[/size]

Nah I think it's obvious in the book what the intention was, it's also from the era where characters being warlords had the HQ requirement. Also forge world books rely heavily on RAI, main reason fan FAQ's have to give the Trojan 'towing' vehicle the artillery tractor rule.

Also using your Gaunts ghosts example, it's based on real world regiments where tank regiments are usually smaller and main role is to support infantry divisions which are larger formations. This is represented in the core dex as all the tanks, artillery, specialists etc in the core Astra Militarum come from separate regiments which are then attached to a core unit where their leaders would indeed be subordinate. Even then the salamander command vehicle represent an infantry commander.

However the ABG represents either A) Mechanised Regiments with integrated Tank support (aka panzer divisions) or B) Tank regiments mobilized as the main force with infantry support (aka Operation desert storm, Battle of 73 Easting).

So, not expected this to turn into a full discussion of my list rather than just an answer to a question(but what the Hell, I get to to read more 40k!!),

If I ran this:
HQ:
CCT:
Vanquisher
Heavy Bolters
Coaxil stubber
Hull Lascannon
Beast Hunter Shells


CCT:
Vanquisher
Heavy Bolters
Coaxil stubber
Hull Lascannon
Beast Hunter Shells

Elite:
Tank Destroyer
Heavy stubber
Dozer blade

Troops:
Leman Russ
Eradicator
Heavy bolters


Leman Russ
Varient can be whatever I feel like (of course I can change all my tanks but this one is paticular I'm not sure what to make, an Exterminator maybe?)
Heavy Bolters


Siege Tank Squadron
Excutioner
Heavy Bolters
Lascannons

Fast Attack:
Vendetta (planning on using the two flyers in a pack, not a swuadron but operating near by to hunt down and elimate high value targets)
Vulture: Punisher Gatling Cannon
Banewolf: with Multi Melta

Heavy Support
Hydra
Basilisk
Basilisk