Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Why not, he's pretty decent. Remember, he can be taken in a CAD - no need for super expensive 1k sonurion. We don't know yet, maybe you'd be able to take him, some hq and a bunch of pink dollars.

xlDuke wrote:
A "Waaagh! Ghazghkull supplement CAD" doesn't exist, so no MFF without using one of the terrible Waaagh! Ghaz detachments/formations, Shogun.

A Eldar Cad also doesn't exist but people seem to use it. Which rules prevent me from using this? You can take a CAD form a source, right?

 koooaei wrote:
Why not, he's pretty decent. Remember, he can be taken in a CAD - no need for super expensive 1k sonurion. We don't know yet, maybe you'd be able to take him, some hq and a bunch of pink dollars.

Pink dollars are not in the thousands sons troop choice. Only Tzaangors and CSM/Rubric boyz.

Can still use cultists (with moT).
Chepeast Magnus tax is probably Sorceror + 2 tzcultists for around 190points

xlDuke wrote:

xlDuke wrote:
A "Waaagh! Ghazghkull supplement CAD" doesn't exist, so no MFF without using one of the terrible Waaagh! Ghaz detachments/formations, Shogun.

A Eldar Cad also doesn't exist but people seem to use it. Which rules prevent me from using this? You can take a CAD form a source, right?

The Orkimedes Kustom Gubbinz rules only allow you to take one of the items only in detachments/formations presented in the W!G supplement, the CAD isn't in the book so you can't use any of the Gubbinz in one. There's also no rule saying we can make a detachment a W!G detachment, unlike the Crimson Slaughter supplement, for example. You're also limited to one relic per character.

Ah, guess thats right. Ah wel, you can still do it with a waaagh-band or a normal Kustom Force Field.

 thenewgozoku wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Why not, he's pretty decent. Remember, he can be taken in a CAD - no need for super expensive 1k sonurion. We don't know yet, maybe you'd be able to take him, some hq and a bunch of pink dollars.

Pink dollars are not in the thousands sons troop choice. Only Tzaangors and CSM/Rubric boyz.

Magnus can be taken with a Daemon detachment as a LoW. You don't have take Thousand Sons to take Magnus.

That would be great. Do you have the book?

Traktor Kannons really seem like they should do the trick, honestly. For 195 points, you get 5 rerollable 4+s to hit (Well, you get 5 rerolls, so you'll probably have 5 rerollable hits for the first couple turns, and then just 5 hits) that wound on 3s and will ground the crap out of Magnus. Assuming he has a 4++ with rerolls on 1, you're looking at a little over one wound per shooting phase, assuming he has a 3++, you're looking at a little less than one wound. The precise number of wounds doesn't matter, though, because you're not trying to kill him, you're trying to knock him from the sky.
From there? Why, our good friend Biker Nobz can come back from the grave to save the day. (Or just bring tons of regular Bikers, I guess.) Magnus is pretty good in combat, but 6 attacks hitting on 3s and wounding on 2s, blocked by a 5+ FNP means he's only causing two wounds against you in Close Combat. (The reason I recommend Biker Nobz is because he won't ID them without bringing Force, and you can add more PKs or just a bunch of Big Choppas. Plus, your HoW will actually hurt him.)

12 Bikers (Including a biker Nob), plus a Painboy, plus a Warboss, plus I'm going to assume a Big Mek, is going to put a lot of hurt on Magnus. Assuming Magnus does kill two of your bikers it's 10 wounds, which gets cut down to three and a half wounds if he has a 4++ and two wounds if he has a 3++.

So... Not an overwhelming amount of damage, but Magnus will be half dead in one turn, for about the same point cost he has. Better than that, though? He's going to be stuck in combat, and incapable of getting off any of his Witchfires until someone comes along to get him unstuck.
(And lets be honest, most Ork players are going to be running around with some kind of Bikerstar to begin with, so you're not really going out of your way here.)

I would absolutely never use biker nobz against magnus, because he does have force. Anything with force weapons is a bad time for nobz.

Traktor Kannons are great for squeezing in wounds and grounding any flyer. I think they solve a great problem that orks have in general as their AA is very poor. However, I don't think landing Magnus is the answer. Even without a single defensive spell, he's pretty durable against anything we throw at him. He casts all of his powers on a 2+ and is ML5. That's like 2 maybe 3 dice (into Force) to make it undeniable with Ork psychic dice.

And unless you're fearless, boyz aren't much help either. If you ground him and surround him, he can most likely find another spot to fly to within 24". He's a bigger issue than what is being said.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is a real answer. Just Fateweaver alone did work to MSU Orks. Now with another flying psyker with multiple AoE effects - the matchup just got a lot harder. I know both of those models are 1000+ pts, but they are brilliant models. Expect to see a lot of lists running both. The ground army with the remaining 800 pts only needs to hold objectives and harass here and there. The new splitting pinks is more than enough to be a pain in the butt for most armies.

What About this:

1850

Chaos CAD
Chaos Sorcerer (need to see how much left to put stuff on him)

10 Cultists
10 Cultists

Magnus

Omniscient Oracles (the ability to reroll the seize the initiative roll, as well as any reserve rolls. reroll 1s for all your to hit, and to wound rolls as well as all of your psychic test)
Fateweaver
Lord Of Change - Grimoire

Heralds Anarchic(generate one additional warp dice in each psychic phase per model on the battlefield)
Herald of Tzeentch ML3 - Disc- Pandemonium
Herald of Tzeentch ML3 - Disc
Herald of Tzeentch ML3 - Disc

This would be very capabale on defending Magnus and being very offensive on the same time, Heralds could summon a ton of Horrors as well... How would you counter this?

Not exactly the best ork counter to Magnus is it.

 Valek wrote:
What About this:

1850

Chaos CAD
Chaos Sorcerer (need to see how much left to put stuff on him)

10 Cultists
10 Cultists

Magnus

Omniscient Oracles (the ability to reroll the seize the initiative roll, as well as any reserve rolls. reroll 1s for all your to hit, and to wound rolls as well as all of your psychic test)
Fateweaver
Lord Of Change - Grimoire

Heralds Anarchic(generate one additional warp dice in each psychic phase per model on the battlefield)
Herald of Tzeentch ML3 - Disc- Pandemonium
Herald of Tzeentch ML3 - Disc
Herald of Tzeentch ML3 - Disc

This would be very capabale on defending Magnus and being very offensive on the same time, Heralds could summon a ton of Horrors as well... How would you counter this?

That's easy, 10 Culexus Assassins

Looted wraithknights? Orks may need to get creative.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Valek wrote:

Spoiler:

What About this:

1850

Chaos CAD
Chaos Sorcerer (need to see how much left to put stuff on him)

10 Cultists
10 Cultists

Magnus

Omniscient Oracles (the ability to reroll the seize the initiative roll, as well as any reserve rolls. reroll 1s for all your to hit, and to wound rolls as well as all of your psychic test)
Fateweaver
Lord Of Change - Grimoire

Heralds Anarchic(generate one additional warp dice in each psychic phase per model on the battlefield)
Herald of Tzeentch ML3 - Disc- Pandemonium
Herald of Tzeentch ML3 - Disc
Herald of Tzeentch ML3 - Disc

This would be very capabale on defending Magnus and being very offensive on the same time, Heralds could summon a ton of Horrors as well... How would you counter this?

That's easy, 10 Culexus Assassins

Or several packs of Sisters of Silence and a handful of Culexus Assassins.

As for Orks, TKs seem like the right way to deal with him.

10 culexxuses and several packs or sisters is an answer, but it wont win you any other game in a tournament.

 Valek wrote:
10 culexxuses and several packs or sisters is an answer, but it wont win you any other game in a tournament.

Why? They may make his psychic powers useless but he is still a daemon primarch supported by daemon princes, in cc he would wipe the floor with a culexus or sisters of silence seeing as though culexus' wound on 6's against Magnus and sisters can't even hurt him in cc.

also true!

Like how orks deal with most big stuff multiple small threats from multiple sources.

Get your shootas in range and try and get 40-60 shots in
Try and drop him out the sky with lootas
Send some rokkits in
Hold him up with chaff if you can drop him

and more importantly play the mission, let him fly around killing 20-30 orks a turn from the sky, you'll have more boyz left and you are on the ground scoring tactical objectives XD

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Valek wrote:
10 culexxuses and several packs or sisters is an answer, but it wont win you any other game in a tournament.

Why? They may make his psychic powers useless but he is still a daemon primarch supported by daemon princes, in cc he would wipe the floor with a culexus or sisters of silence seeing as though culexus' wound on 6's against Magnus and sisters can't even hurt him in cc.

All attacks against Culexus is down-graded to BS1 and WS1, so even a Primarch will be hitting on 5s.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Valek wrote:
10 culexxuses and several packs or sisters is an answer, but it wont win you any other game in a tournament.

Why? They may make his psychic powers useless but he is still a daemon primarch supported by daemon princes, in cc he would wipe the floor with a culexus or sisters of silence seeing as though culexus' wound on 6's against Magnus and sisters can't even hurt him in cc.

All attacks against Culexus is down-graded to BS1 and WS1, so even a Primarch will be hitting on 5s.

And your Culexus will have 4 (?) attacks hitting on 3s wounding on 6s and trying to go through a 4++ w/ 7 wounds and IWND. Magnus is still a beast in cc even without psychic buffs and at WS1.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Valek wrote:
10 culexxuses and several packs or sisters is an answer, but it wont win you any other game in a tournament.

Why? They may make his psychic powers useless but he is still a daemon primarch supported by daemon princes, in cc he would wipe the floor with a culexus or sisters of silence seeing as though culexus' wound on 6's against Magnus and sisters can't even hurt him in cc.

All attacks against Culexus is down-graded to BS1 and WS1, so even a Primarch will be hitting on 5s.

And your Culexus will have 4 (?) attacks hitting on 3s wounding on 6s and trying to go through a 4++ w/ 7 wounds and IWND. Magnus is still a beast in cc even without psychic buffs and at WS1.

I actually didn't expect a single Assassin will kill an overpower Primarch, I just need to nullify what that list is strongest at. In combat even Magnus is only killing at most one Assassin per turn, at the time rest Assassins are going to threaten the rest of that psychic army, I suppose Magnus and Fateweaver have Eternal Warrior, but the Sorceror, LoC, and Heralds don't have that, right? so any unsaved scratch on them will put them down.
Considering the broad control of 10 Culexus. The only "counter the counter" I can think about is having all the LoC Fflying, join any psykers who cannot fly in the Cultist Squad and cast Grimore on them. But even then, they cannot last long in a prolonged combat.

10 Culexi are also 1400 points. That's the vast majority of your army right there.

And Magnus can split his attacks, so he'll kill (with 7 attacks, 2.33 hit a turn, 2 wound, and 1 makes it through the saves... Huh, only about one per turn, actually) one per turn, but POTENTIALLY can kill many more with lucky rolling.

 JNAProductions wrote:
10 Culexi are also 1400 points. That's the vast majority of your army right there.

And Magnus can split his attacks, so he'll kill (with 7 attacks, 2.33 hit a turn, 2 wound, and 1 makes it through the saves... Huh, only about one per turn, actually) one per turn, but POTENTIALLY can kill many more with lucky rolling.

Spread out the Culexus Assassins make Magnus not able to multi charge. So he at most kills one per turn. And reserve two to three on board ready to die against the evil shining Primarch in next three game turns. And throw the rest on those ground base chaos and daemon psykers.


Ok now I have to admit that I talked in vacuum against a vacuum list too much. Have to admit that in reality, Tournament settings would not allow 10 detachments, thus there won't be that many Culexus to stop Magnus's psychic onslaught, meanwhile, the Chaos player can easily spam flying Tz DP and LoC to support Magnus, and they can all easily fly around the at most 2 Culexus on board to keep raining SD witchfire at anyone who oppose them.

Magnus already can't multicharge because he is a single model unit

 CrownAxe wrote:
Magnus already can't multicharge because he is a single model unit

Faq changed that.

 koooaei wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
Magnus already can't multicharge because he is a single model unit

Faq changed that.

Official FAQ unchanged that

Oh, nice.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Okay, so you spent 650 (Magnus) and 3*295 (The princes) 1535 points on that. That's pretty much your entire list there. No objective grabbers. No ground presence at all, really. And I'm pretty sure you're unbound, with Magnus there.

Hey, how do you deal with this list?

Spoiler:

1510 Points

CAD-530
230-Typhus
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies

CAD-360
60-Srocerer
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies

CAD-360
60-Srocerer
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies

CAD-260
60-Srocerer
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies

That's 22 Fearless blobs on the table. How do you beat them?

Simple: you don't have to beat them since you'll never see an army like on the table. It's pretty terrible / totally harmless. And even if you do face that crazy zombie list, Magnus and his friends can easily chew up multiple dozens of light bodies per turn.

What powers do you have to kill dozens of zombies a turn? Actual examples, please.