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Howdy All,

After contemplating running a Solar Auxilia 30k army with an Ordo Reductor allied contingent, I've instead decided to go pure Ordo Reductor given I already owned enough models to make growing an army relatively simple.

I already own the 2 Minotaurs, 2 Thunderer Siege Tanks (Artillery Battery), Caleb Decima, his Macrocarid Explorator, both squads of Myrmidons and the Lightning Strike Fighter (All NIB still), however am open to changing units around pending peoples feedback

All feedback welcome



HQ
Calleb Decima 235
-Invictus Upgrade
-Cyber Familiar
DT: Macrocarid Explorator 295
-Graviton Imploder
-Irradiation Engines
-Armoured Ceramite
-Flare Shield

Elite
Myrmidon Secutors 230
-Graviton Gun x 2
-Phased Plasma-Fusil x 4
(With Caleb Decima in the Macrocarid Explorator)

Troop
Thallax Cohort x 4 185
-Melta Bombs x 4
-Multi-melta

Thallax Cohort x 4 185
-Melta Bombs x 4
-Multi-melta

Castellax Battle Automata x 2 280
-Frag Grenades
-Darkfire Cannon x 2
-Flamers x 4

Fast Attack
Primris Lightning Strike Fighter 220
-Kraken Penetrator Missiles x 4
-Ramjet Diffraction Grid
-Battle Servitor Control

Heavy Support
Myrmidon Destructors 240
-Graviton Imploder x 3
DT:Triaros Armoured Conveyor 140
-Blessed Auto Simulacra

Minotaur Artillery Battery x 2 450
-Phased Plasma-Fusil
-Armoured Ceramite

Artillery Tank Battery x 2 310
-Medusa Cannon x 2
-Machine Spirit
-Siege Plating

Krios Battle Tank Squadron x 2 250
-Venator Upgrade x 2

Subtotal: 3060

Lords of War
Macharius Vulcan 435
-Autokrator Control
-Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Grand Total: 3495

If only i'd known about those thunderer seige tanks when i was buying my medusas.

Two things:
You missed out the +25 for each of the krios pulsar-fusils
I'm making the total points as 3020 as they are, 3070 with both the krios pulsar-fusils included.

I'd like to pose an alternative to the krios me and a friend discussed, i don't know if you've spotted it already - the tarantula sentry gun battery with TL lascannon.

One unit of them costs 120pts with the guns and gives 6 3 TL shots of the same strength and AP as the krios venator, what do you think?

 SirDonlad wrote:
If only i'd known about those thunderer seige tanks when i was buying my medusas.

Two things:
You missed out the +25 for each of the krios pulsar-fusils
I'm making the total points as 3020 as they are, 3070 with both the krios pulsar-fusils included.

I'd like to pose an alternative to the krios me and a friend discussed, i don't know if you've spotted it already - the tarantula sentry gun battery with TL lascannon.

One unit of them costs 120pts with the guns and gives 6 TL shots of the same strength and AP as the krios venator, what do you think?

Krios Venator is way better than Tarantulas. Fast means that it can get side armour better, its shots are Pinning, so they can be harmful to infantry, its shots are Ordnance, so they roll 2d6 and pick the highest for penetration rather than 1d6, and its shots are AP1, which means a penetrating hit is far more likely to be crippling. AV13 with a Flare Shield is also far more effective than T6 2W at enduring enemy firepower.

Conversely, Tarantulas cannot move once deployed, have limited firing arcs or a cripplingly short range, and have dumb machine-spirits whose fire can be controlled by your opponent rather than yourself, unless you buy them /another/ unit to baby sit them and restrict their deployment heavily. Tarantulas are not durable, not Ordnance, not AP1, and not Pinning. Tarantulas lack Volkite Sentinel secondary weapons and cannot effectively engage infantry, are not scoring in the Matrix of Ruin, and cannot self-repair with blessed autosimulacra.

I like it! Sounds like fun.

As far as Tarantulas go I think BS 3 and the Firing Modes and Targeting rules make them a bit of a crap shoot, but they are cheaper...

page 56 of the mechanicum red book has the pulsar fusil as a 36" S9 AP2 ordinance4 with pinning.

I'm not saying "take tarantulas instead of krios venators because they are better" (it only has 3 shots compared to the 4 of the krios) im saying that it's a little different and can offer an interesting alternative which isn't that different in firepower and costs less points which the op is going to need to find. he has a spare fast attack slot and taking this option instead of one of the krios can save the points needed to pay for the venator upgrade on the other. swings and roundabouts i recon.

It's not anywhere close to the mobility of a moving vehicle, but they can take upgrades to gain the scout rule and can even pay to deepstrike which is a bit unorthodox and will probably get rear armour shots with clever placement. Only the minotaur has rear facing flare sheilds!
Also; If you have a model with the battlesmith rule within 6" then the 'anima override' rule allows it to ignore the 'firing protocols' rules.


edit: i get where you're coming from, but in this case the reduction in points needed for the venator upgrades makes it a viable step-down - The op needs to trim 45 points from somewhere to do both krios upgrades but i don't see much fat to trim in this list.
Dropping one krios and upgrading the other to a venator leaves 100pts which could get two tarantula TL lascannons and some spare points, but the op could avoid using them and simply remove one thallax and it's melta-bomb from one of the cohorts to get the points, but when you have tank hunter enabled kraken missiles and meltabombs on every thallax, four lascannon shots are more a distraction than a serious anti-tank option imo.
If the op is cool running 3 unit thallax cohorts then doing the same to the other squad could fund most of an explorator augury web for the macrocarid giving rerolls on the aircraft and potential thallax deepstrike reserve rolls etc.

Did the math and I think I'm actually at 3110 after including the Krios Venator, upgrade.

I think the simplest thing to do would be to drop one Krios, to claw back the 110 points.

That would leave me with 40 points, or 60 if I also drop the Ramjet Diffraction Grid or 90 total if I also ditch the siege Plating on the Artillery.

The explorator augury web would probably be the best bet if I free up 60 points.

Also I'll back up SirDonald here, I run a unit of 3 twin-linked Lascannon Tarantulas in my D-99 army, while not outstanding they are pretty good for their points and are never someones prime target, letting them get off a few rounds of shooting. While out-shined by most other units they can be surprisingly useful for the points.

How WYSIWYG is your gaming group? Thunderers definitely have Demolisher cannons on them, which is a valid option for Reductor Artillery, but you've chosen to count them as Medusas. That's potentially confusing for the opponent.

Would your gaming group be ok with that?

 ArbitorIan wrote:
How WYSIWYG is your gaming group? Thunderers definitely have Demolisher cannons on them, which is a valid option for Reductor Artillery, but you've chosen to count them as Medusas. That's potentially confusing for the opponent.

Would your gaming group be ok with that?

Yeah, valid point. They are pretty good like that as long as its clear before the game starts, and its not like I have multiple Artillery Batteries they can confuse it with, however just to be sure I'm replacing the demolisher cannons with the Medusa Barrels from the Solar Auxilia Artillery model.

Also what are peoples thoughts on the Dominus Armoured Siege Bombard?

300 points brings 2 lascannons and a S10 ap3, ordnance barrage large blast or apocalyptic barrage 3 weapon if it remains stationary. Background wise it fits the Ordo Reductor theme well and also allows enough room to add a in a Vultarax Stratos-Automata for 4000 point games.

However I'd have to convert one, and does this list need more ordnance weapons? I Feel it might struggle against drop pod or outflanking armies.

I think it sounds really fun and fits with the Ordo Reductor perfectly but the whole having to build your own will probably keep me from ever using one.

Unfortunately, I think Ordo Reductor lists usually struggle against drop pod/ outflanking by nature of being fairly tank heavy.

 Sol Invictus wrote:
I think it sounds really fun and fits with the Ordo Reductor perfectly but the whole having to build your own will probably keep me from ever using one.

Unfortunately, I think Ordo Reductor lists usually struggle against drop pod/ outflanking by nature of being fairly tank heavy.

This unit hates drop pods. Especially the black ones with Ravenguard in them.
*Binary curses!*

 Ankhalagon wrote:

 Sol Invictus wrote:
I think it sounds really fun and fits with the Ordo Reductor perfectly but the whole having to build your own will probably keep me from ever using one.

Unfortunately, I think Ordo Reductor lists usually struggle against drop pod/ outflanking by nature of being fairly tank heavy.

This unit hates drop pods. Especially the black ones with Ravenguard in them.
*Binary curses!*

Thats a valid point and I've been thinking about it all week, so far the only solution I've thought of would be to bring another Castellex or Dominatar with Paragon of Metal to guard my backfield artillery units or possibly a 20 strong Adsecularis Covenant with right of pure thought and Revenant Alchemistry might also do the trick. This would require a significant reshuffle to my current list though.

Also to free up the points for the Krios Venator upgrade, I might drop one castellex and give the solo one paragon of metal, (due to having no cortex controllers); bringing the total to 3440 points.
Leaving me another 60 points to spend.

Also any other suggestions on how I could upgrade this list to 4000 points? A Thanatar-Calix and Dominatar, both with Paragon of metal seem like they would be fun, but a Vultarax Stratos-Automata also appeals, but really I don't know much about any of them.

I love it, but don't get the Thanatar-Calix because it's a lot of points and will not get them back unless it gets to a 'primus redoubt' - my own tactics revolved around getting it into assault range of the enemy spartan, but the quad-lascannon sponsons always kill it before it gets anywhere.

The Thanatar-Cynis is properly useful - it gets ignored for a while because of the short range of it's primary weapon but it makes terminators run away!

The Vultarax is as schizophrenic as the Thanatar-Calix with one good anti-troop weapon linked to one with the haywire rule, forcing you to choose between troops or vehicles and ultimately wasting one of the weapons each time.
They should give it PotMS imo.

The Vultarax's antitank gun is sooooo good and it's anti-infantry gun so abysmal that it is clearly an antitank platform. Saying one is wasting havoc launchers when it shoots at tanks is lIke saying the Venator is wasting its pintle mounted heavy bolter when it fires its neutron laser at tanks.

 Johnson101 wrote:


Also any other suggestions on how I could upgrade this list to 4000 points? A Thanatar-Calix and Dominatar, both with Paragon of metal seem like they would be fun

I believe only 1 unit may have paragon of metal per detachment??

For 560 points, I'd stick in:

1 Arlatax
w/ Paragon of Metal
[210]

1 7-man Thallax
w/ Ferrox and Chainblades
[355]

Do need to drop the Blessed Autosimulacra on the Triaros for 5 spare points; I can count on one hand how many times I've gotten a HP back from BA.

This'll give you a rapid response unit, in the form of a mini deathstar, I suppose. Map pressure from these guys is crazy.

Also, keep in mind, you can only have one Paragon of Metal per detatchment.
(I was writing this as Vulkan gave his reply)

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The Vultarax's antitank gun is sooooo good and it's anti-infantry gun so abysmal that it is clearly an antitank platform. Saying one is wasting havoc launchers when it shoots at tanks is lIke saying the Venator is wasting its pintle mounted heavy bolter when it fires its neutron laser at tanks.

I disagree, the 'setheno pattern havoc launchers' are good inti-infantry - YMMV and all, but i see four TL S5 AP5 small blasts that force rerolls of successful cover saves while worsening the cover save by 1 as 'wyvern++' - and it's regarded as one of the best infantry shredders in 40k; naturally the prevalence of 3+ armour in 30k drops the effectiveness somewhat but four templates that wound infantry on a 2+ 3+ is going to get wounds through.

Hold on a sec - aren't the setheno pattern havoc launchers basically a more accurate and twin linked quad mortar?

Yeah, i think thats a damn good anti-infanry weapon.

It's str 5 and small blast. You will get 4 hits on a spread out squad, and str 5, so only 3+ to wound, and then they get saves (which Solar Auxilia and breachers re-roll).

The reason quad mortars are good is the number of blasts for the points, not anything else. You could get 12ish quad mortar blasts for the price of a Vultarax - that's why they're good - and that's without mentioning the Pinning, -1 LD, and the fact that they get access to phospex.

But the points cost is irrelevant to this choice though!

People have been doing the spreading out thing in 40k for years and the wyvern still got that reputation - In my experience people just don't spread squads out like that, they might after the first strike but the time and effort is beyond most people and there are tactical repercussions to having your units take up large areas.

This is of course assuming that these enemy units wont get pushed together to escape lines of fire from other units.

On the vultarax anti-tank ability: in my experience haywire doesn't mean a lot until you hit; 3 shots at BS4 and coversaves after is not a reliable antitank choice in my book, but YMMV as usual.

 SirDonlad wrote:
But the points cost is irrelevant to this choice though!

People have been doing the spreading out thing in 40k for years and the wyvern still got that reputation - In my experience people just don't spread squads out like that, they might after the first strike but the time and effort is beyond most people and there are tactical repercussions to having your units take up large areas.

This is of course assuming that these enemy units wont get pushed together to escape lines of fire from other units.

On the vultarax anti-tank ability: in my experience haywire doesn't mean a lot until you hit; 3 shots at BS4 and coversaves after is not a reliable antitank choice in my book, but YMMV as usual.

Points costs are relevant if you say "it is as good as a quad mortar" because quad mortars are only good since they are so cheap.

It comes stock with an enhanced targeting array, meaning BS5 and -1 to the already-difficult-to-claim-from-flyers cover save. This also means a Maniple of 3 will kill a Baneblade in one shooting phase fairly reliably, while the same Maniple will kill max 12 Marines if they are spread out, wounded with every hit, and fail every armour save.

 Buddingsquaw wrote:
For 560 points, I'd stick in:

1 7-man Thallax
w/ Ferrox and Chainblades
[355]

Do need to drop the Blessed Autosimulacra on the Triaros for 5 spare points; I can count on one hand how many times I've gotten a HP back from BA.

This'll give you a rapid response unit, in the form of a mini deathstar, I suppose. Map pressure from these guys is crazy.

Also, keep in mind, you can only have one Paragon of Metal per detatchment.
(I was writing this as Vulkan gave his reply)

I can imagine how brutal that unit of Thallax could be, very tempting especially as my mate plays Sons of Horus with plenty of CC units.

Dam that Paragon of Metal Limitation stuffs up any plans of bringing more robots. How feasible is it to run Automoto without cortex controllers? The rules seem to make them unpredictable without support from Magos or Techpriest Auxillia; both a hefty points tax.

I think I might have a go of rejigging this list tomorrow, I'd probably keep my Heavy Support and Caleb Decima intact but will play around with everything else.

 Johnson101 wrote:

 Buddingsquaw wrote:
-snip-

-snip-
How feasible is it to run Automoto without cortex controllers? The rules seem to make them unpredictable without support from Magos or Techpriest Auxillia; both a hefty points tax.

Not such a problem with long-range shooty ones that sit at the back; programmed behaviour is only a bugger if the bot gets within a foot of an enemy.
However, Domitar seem to be pretty happy working on their own. Very rare that they bowl into something that can deal with them. I use them as terrifying tarpits.

The Thanatar Callix and Cynis definitely need a cortex controller. You absolutely do not want them getting tied up with flak units, and given their short ranges (who gets a Callix just for that 1-shot lascannon?), it's likely they'll go "Oooh! Shiny!" and blast to pieces that blob of tech thralls that wandered close.
But a Domitar (or better against techies: Arlatax) won't be fussed. Only 1 turn dealing with that.

Can't do Cyberthurgy on a bot outside of cortex range, though. That can be a problem.
You can get a single Cynis to plant 8 plasma blasts on something in a single turn; the target will die. (And also possibly the Cynis, pfft)
(Imagine that with a Haemotrope reactor...)

TL;DR
If you don't want to take Cortex Controllers, you can do fine with shooty Castellax and Domitar. Might cheese it with a standard Thanatar, but that could go tits-up against a sensible opponent.
Remember - You maintain full control of the robot until it gets within a foot of an enemy.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:


Points costs are relevant if you say "it is as good as a quad mortar" because quad mortars are only good since they are so cheap.

It comes stock with an enhanced targeting array, meaning BS5 and -1 to the already-difficult-to-claim-from-flyers cover save. This also means a Maniple of 3 will kill a Baneblade in one shooting phase fairly reliably, while the same Maniple will kill max 12 Marines if they are spread out, wounded with every hit, and fail every armour save.

Ah, i see. you're having difficulty trying to invalidate my opinion so rather than accepting it you're looking to colour the quad mortar as a poor anti-infantry weapon that was only 'good' because it was cheap - good luck with that!!

I was comparing weapon profile only - i'm talking about making a choice between what the vultarax already has; you don't pay to get the havoc launchers.

Three wouldn't kill a baneblade reliably because they've inevitably decided to shoot another unit thats gotten within 12".


The baneblade player only needs to dump some conscripts 12" in front of it and programmed behavior diverts those three Vultarax before they even get within the arc weapons 24" range; and tbh it's a solar auxillia player, they will have a selection of other units scattered across the table which will divert the Vultaraxs' shooting and assaulting.

And again, they need to hit before haywire does anything and GW dice produce ~30% ones. http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/That's_How_I_Roll_-_A_Scientific_Analysis_of_Dice

I'm getting the feeling you've never used units with programmed behavior before.

I've found that people only space units out for my medusas or irradiation engine myrmidons, never for my base spec quad-mortars - four blasts at AP5 just doesn't scare the opponent like you're insinuating.

edit: people also space out units for my thanatars.

The army I am using them with is Cybernetica with a 24" radius bubble. 3 magos dominuses (well one is Scoria) each with a bodyguard can move to center field and the entire board is covered 100% in cortex control range, since standing at midboard the circle is 48" in diameter. (Well 48.5" including the base of the Dominus, 51.25" if they have abeyants).

I have lots of units that have Programmed Behavior - a whole Cybernetica army in fact. I just am careful not to move out of the (frankly huge) circle of cortex control.

And I also use chessex dice, not GW.

I was just about to ask for pics of the army

The Iron Warriors scheme look amazing!!!

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The army I am using them with is Cybernetica with a 24" radius bubble. 3 magos dominuses (well one is Scoria) each with a bodyguard can move to center field and the entire board is covered 100% in cortex control range, since standing at midboard the circle is 48" in diameter. (Well 48.5" including the base of the Dominus, 51.25" if they have abeyants).

I have lots of units that have Programmed Behavior - a whole Cybernetica army in fact. I just am careful not to move out of the (frankly huge) circle of cortex control.

And I also use chessex dice, not GW.

Fair play, thats a whole different level of cortex freedom! But the OP is doing an Ordo Reductor force so it's not useful to him/her/it/they.

My apologies, i didn't know about your cybernetica assets, just a huge armoured column and the centurio ordinatus list - you don't have any pictures of your robots on dakka or feature it in the sig section of your posts was what threw me.

Unfortunately the chessex dice have the same issue, that article states later on that the design of hollowed pips and rounded edges were what gave the effect; i spent £fartoomany on 40 casino dice cause of this sort of thing...


That was armour saves for a thallax cohort from a wyvern.

A few points:

The Thanatar variants are hot garbage. In the running along with Domitar for worst units in the book.

Calleb sucks. Either take a super Archmagos that rides with Myrmidons and punches the crap out of things, or a regular Magos Reductor with a conversion beamer and still them with some adepts and servitors for tank-hunting AP0 conversion beaming goodness.

Vultarax Stratos-Automata are not able to take Paragon of Metal.

Ordo Reductor is better off focusing on tanks and infantry rather than automata, especially in Matrix of Ruin.

Mechanicum as a whole does not care about drop pod lists, because we can take cyber-occularis which grant interceptor to nearby units. Our phosphex Medusas and Krios venators can intercept your pods and dreadnoughts. Resistance is futile.