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[SPOILERS BELOW!]
Now We all know Alpharius was Killed by Dorn at the End of the Book (and the Author was pretty sure it was him, NOT an Impostor)

We Also Know that if a Regular Alpha Legion Marine Drinks his Blood, He Basically Turns into him (Even Getting some of his Memories) (And anyway, They are All Alpharius)

Now Couldnt a Skilled Apothecary just Replace an Alpha Legion Praeator/Captains Blood With Alpharius'? I.E Recreating Him in a New Body?

Or would that be advancing the story TOO Far?
(Could Be Plausible way for Alpharius to Return with the Other Primarchs hinted at the end of Wrath of Magnus)

I thought the author was pretty sure, not 100% positive, that it might very well have been him.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I thought the author was pretty sure, not 100% positive, that it might very well have been him.

Well, I Refuse to Believe it, But i am Prepared to Accept it (But i will NOT be Happy)

At this point I almost don't believe alpharius and omegon ever actually existed, and its just the alpha legion pulling tricks over everyone.

But yes, I will be upset if Alpharius is killed off so quickly.

Haha. Such denial. Just let a character die! It's meant to be dramatic.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Haha. Such denial. Just let a character die! It's meant to be dramatic.

That way their triumphant return can be shoehorned into the upcoming edition of 40k.

On another note why doesn't Alpharius just drain a bunch of his blood and pass it around the Legion. 100,000 primarchs sounds like a winning force.

Did you guys think that Dorn was wrong to kill Alpharius? I came away feeling that Dorn shouldn't have done it. But from Dorn's point of view, if Alpharius wanted to sit down and have a chin wag he certainly went the wrong way about it.

Sadly, Alpharius is confirmed dead, indeed. It's added to the list of annoying retcons (ish) that shouldn't have been included. It remains to be seen if they touch Eskrador.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Did you guys think that Dorn was wrong to kill Alpharius? I came away feeling that Dorn shouldn't have done it. But from Dorn's point of view, if Alpharius wanted to sit down and have a chin wag he certainly went the wrong way about it.

Nah, Alpharius was after all trying to prod him with the Necron pig-sticker.

 ChazSexington wrote:
Sadly, Alpharius is confirmed dead, indeed. It's added to the list of annoying retcons (ish) that shouldn't have been included. It remains to be seen if they touch Eskrador.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Did you guys think that Dorn was wrong to kill Alpharius? I came away feeling that Dorn shouldn't have done it. But from Dorn's point of view, if Alpharius wanted to sit down and have a chin wag he certainly went the wrong way about it.

Nah, Alpharius was after all trying to prod him with the Necron pig-sticker.

Then Again when Dorn arrived he was pretty much VERY ANGRY

Black Library are Basically turning the Alpha Legion into the "Worf of 40k"
Basically a Force to be Beaten to show how powerful the Other Force is

Just gimme another Alpha Legion Book that...
A. Retcons the End of PoD, Turns out Alpharius Mind Swapped with Someone so he could go off with his most trusted marines and go mess up something without the shackles of Omegon
B. Expands on the Fluff of Autilon Skorr, Seriously this guy is a BEAST
C. They mess up another legion by destroying their supplies or something

Seriously, its beggining to get annoying with black library

 commander dante wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
Sadly, Alpharius is confirmed dead, indeed. It's added to the list of annoying retcons (ish) that shouldn't have been included. It remains to be seen if they touch Eskrador.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Did you guys think that Dorn was wrong to kill Alpharius? I came away feeling that Dorn shouldn't have done it. But from Dorn's point of view, if Alpharius wanted to sit down and have a chin wag he certainly went the wrong way about it.

Nah, Alpharius was after all trying to prod him with the Necron pig-sticker.

Then Again when Dorn arrived he was pretty much VERY ANGRY

Black Library are Basically turning the Alpha Legion into the "Worf of 40k"
Basically a Force to be Beaten to show how powerful the Other Force is

Just gimme another Alpha Legion Book that...
A. Retcons the End of PoD, Turns out Alpharius Mind Swapped with Someone so he could go off with his most trusted marines and go mess up something without the shackles of Omegon
B. Expands on the Fluff of Autilon Skorr, Seriously this guy is a BEAST
C. They mess up another legion by destroying their supplies or something

Seriously, its beggining to get annoying with black library

I doubt they're gonna retcon it. Autilon Skorr did well during the Great Crusade, then just kept mucking up, like the rest of the Alpha Legion did after Isstvan V.

The Alpha Legion really suffers from not having a dedicated author. PoD was written by a IF fanboy, I don't think we could've expected to be anything but a punching bag. Killing the Primarch was bad though.

 commander dante wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
Sadly, Alpharius is confirmed dead, indeed. It's added to the list of annoying retcons (ish) that shouldn't have been included. It remains to be seen if they touch Eskrador.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Did you guys think that Dorn was wrong to kill Alpharius? I came away feeling that Dorn shouldn't have done it. But from Dorn's point of view, if Alpharius wanted to sit down and have a chin wag he certainly went the wrong way about it.

Nah, Alpharius was after all trying to prod him with the Necron pig-sticker.

Then Again when Dorn arrived he was pretty much VERY ANGRY

Black Library are Basically turning the Alpha Legion into the "Worf of 40k"
Basically a Force to be Beaten to show how powerful the Other Force is

Just gimme another Alpha Legion Book that...
A. Retcons the End of PoD, Turns out Alpharius Mind Swapped with Someone so he could go off with his most trusted marines and go mess up something without the shackles of Omegon
B. Expands on the Fluff of Autilon Skorr, Seriously this guy is a BEAST
C. They mess up another legion by destroying their supplies or something

Seriously, its beggining to get annoying with black library

I'm struggling to think of a time when the al actually lost? Sure pod, but all I can think of elsewhere is skirmishes ?

I'm struggling to think of a time when the al actually lost? Sure pod, but all I can think of elsewhere is skirmishes ?

If I remember correctly, in the 6th Horus Heresy book from Forge World, the Alpha Legio force led by Autillion Skorr was defeated by a combined Shattered Legions force at Mezoa.

 Formosa wrote:

 commander dante wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
Sadly, Alpharius is confirmed dead, indeed. It's added to the list of annoying retcons (ish) that shouldn't have been included. It remains to be seen if they touch Eskrador.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Did you guys think that Dorn was wrong to kill Alpharius? I came away feeling that Dorn shouldn't have done it. But from Dorn's point of view, if Alpharius wanted to sit down and have a chin wag he certainly went the wrong way about it.

Nah, Alpharius was after all trying to prod him with the Necron pig-sticker.

Then Again when Dorn arrived he was pretty much VERY ANGRY

Black Library are Basically turning the Alpha Legion into the "Worf of 40k"
Basically a Force to be Beaten to show how powerful the Other Force is

Just gimme another Alpha Legion Book that...
A. Retcons the End of PoD, Turns out Alpharius Mind Swapped with Someone so he could go off with his most trusted marines and go mess up something without the shackles of Omegon
B. Expands on the Fluff of Autilon Skorr, Seriously this guy is a BEAST
C. They mess up another legion by destroying their supplies or something

Seriously, its beggining to get annoying with black library

I'm struggling to think of a time when the al actually lost? Sure pod, but all I can think of elsewhere is skirmishes ?

The Alpha Legion actually has only won one or two battles after the Dropsite Massacre so far...
It is sad to see one of the most interesting legions being abused so much by BL. Also, Alpharius is not dead. I refuse to accept such an incredibly badly written piece of fluff by one of BL most gakky authors as canon. Seriously, even C.S. Goto was not that much of a drooling idiot.
But yeah, as per established AL fluff (like in the FW HH books), any Alpha Legion marine can take on the role of Primarch and be indistinguishable from an actual one. Alpharius is supposed to not really be a single individual, but more of an identity. So lets hope they just come with an (inevitably badly written) twist later on that has Alpharius showing up like nothing ever happened.
Personally, I am kinda giving up on BL's HH series. They seem utterly incapable of writing anything good. I am just sticking with FW's HH series only for canon I guess.

 commander dante wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
Sadly, Alpharius is confirmed dead, indeed. It's added to the list of annoying retcons (ish) that shouldn't have been included. It remains to be seen if they touch Eskrador.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Did you guys think that Dorn was wrong to kill Alpharius? I came away feeling that Dorn shouldn't have done it. But from Dorn's point of view, if Alpharius wanted to sit down and have a chin wag he certainly went the wrong way about it.

Nah, Alpharius was after all trying to prod him with the Necron pig-sticker.

Then Again when Dorn arrived he was pretty much VERY ANGRY

Black Library are Basically turning the Alpha Legion into the "Worf of 40k"
Basically a Force to be Beaten to show how powerful the Other Force is

Just gimme another Alpha Legion Book that...
A. Retcons the End of PoD, Turns out Alpharius Mind Swapped with Someone so he could go off with his most trusted marines and go mess up something without the shackles of Omegon
B. Expands on the Fluff of Autilon Skorr, Seriously this guy is a BEAST
C. They mess up another legion by destroying their supplies or something

Seriously, its beggining to get annoying with black library

What about the time they crapped all over the Raven Guard and made a fool of Corax?

Alpharius was expendable ever since they introduced Omegon.

 Formosa wrote:


I'm struggling to think of a time when the al actually lost? Sure pod, but all I can think of elsewhere is skirmishes ?

The Alpha Legion's military record is much like the stereotypical French (but spurious) military record. While the French could only win if the Americans did most of the fighting (Honestly, I think they meant arrive late) or were led by a Corsican, the Alpha Legion only win, post-Dropsite, if they're fighting themselves (mostly).

Defeats:
Scars. Get their asses spanked by the White Scars
Wolf King. Lose spectacularly after gaining a massive advantage against the Space Wolves
Praetor of Dorn. Massive plot to get rid of the Sol's system outer defences fails spectacularly in this fanfiction tale by Imperial Fists fanboi John French (see his interview in that month's WD). The Alpha Legion's supposedly amazing plans sees their fleet annihilated by the Phalanx and the loss of their Primarch at the hands of Dorn. Slow clap ensues.

Draws:
Deliverance Lost. It's not a win when you fail to achieve your goals - which was to continue the cloning programme the Raven Guard had initiated for their Legion. As in the prelude to this, they had the chance to kill Corax, but opted for this, thus it's an utter failure (see the short story Face of Treachery).

Wins:
The Harrowing. They take over an AdMech ship.

Fighting themselves:
Seventh Serpent. Admittedly, the Primarch-sniping, best swordsman of all the legions (he beat Lucius), stealth master without equal, and all-round Mary Sue Nykona is required to notice something's up.
Serpent Beneath. The purportedly Loyal Alpha Legionnaires under Omegon (who was Traitor in Deliverance Lost) take out the station shrouding the White Scars communications at the cost of

These are all the Alpha Legion BL publications post-Dropsite. You could possibly include Paramar as a Pyrrhic Victory, and the defeat at Epsilon-Stranivar IX if you stretch to FW publications.

Animus wrote:


What about the time they crapped all over the Raven Guard and made a fool of Corax?

Alpharius was expendable ever since they introduced Omegon.

See above.

Was the defeat at the hands of the White Scars an intentional defeat, I mean, they didn't really do much did they and they let the Scars get away.

Did you not enjoy PoD Chaz?

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Was the defeat at the hands of the White Scars an intentional defeat, I mean, they didn't really do much did they and they let the Scars get away.

Did you not enjoy PoD Chaz?

From what I understood, they were meant to keep them in place for long enough for Dorn's message to reach them, i.e. until Omegon could take down the Tenebrae station. However, from reading it, it didn't seem like they intended to lose that many ships and men. I mean, they did lose quite a few ships and men.

I thought PoD was awful. While my more nitpicky criticism was minor fluff stuff, like the changing of the Alpha Legion's lenses from red to green, my main issue was I guessed the plot half-way through. It was just waaaay too obvious, similar to why Seventh Serpent was rather boring. I just ended up wading through adjectives (though he wasn't into James Swallow territory) until Alpharius kicked the bucket. I'm paraphrasing, but ADB said he didn't want to write about the Alpha Legion because of the difficulties inherent to writing about the Legion.

Killing off Alpharius was an unnecessary move from the author's side. Incarnus' death was utterly bizarre and made zero sense. The idea that lots of sabotage and the XXth's presence in the Sol system would lead to Dorn heading out to systems that have gone black is ludicrous. I'm not even sure of how that is even remotely logical. The whole idea that Dorn would outsmart Alpharius at his own game reeked of fanboy-ism, and how it resulted in the death of the Primarch and the annihilation of the XXth's fleet. I mean, you don't see Guilliman losing to Russ at secretarial work; Alpharius is meant to be the master of non-conventional warfare, Dorn is meant to be straight-thinking lego-builder. Alpharius has so far always been extremely wary of combat - Russ even states it's not in his nature in Scars- but he suddenly wants to try poking Dorn's insides with the Necron spear.

In the end, it boiled down to it seeming very out of character to me.

I see, thank you. I've found the AL to be a bit more of a threat in PoD then they have been in other stories and I feel they are handled better.

I don't necessarily agree with you but I can understand the way you dislike it.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
I see, thank you. I've found the AL to be a bit more of a threat in PoD then they have been in other stories and I feel they are handled better.

I don't necessarily agree with you but I can understand the way you dislike it.

I quite like discussing wh40k with you, it's always a much nicer tone

I thought, up to a point, the Alpha Legion seemed like a credible threat. I did enjoy the part where they were aware their plan may fail (like their botched assassination attempt which would have been much easier to solve earlier) and which backups to go to; I really dislike the infallible approach.

It wasn't all bad, but on the whole, I thought the plot was plain bad. Characters and such were pretty alright, mind. I liked the Crimson Walkers, Luna Witches and the other little background tidbits

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
I see, thank you. I've found the AL to be a bit more of a threat in PoD then they have been in other stories and I feel they are handled better.

I don't necessarily agree with you but I can understand the way you dislike it.

I quite like discussing wh40k with you, it's always a much nicer tone

I thought, up to a point, the Alpha Legion seemed like a credible threat. I did enjoy the part where they were aware their plan may fail (like their botched assassination attempt which would have been much easier to solve earlier) and which backups to go to; I really dislike the infallible approach.

It wasn't all bad, but on the whole, I thought the plot was plain bad. Characters and such were pretty alright, mind. I liked the Crimson Walkers, Luna Witches and the other little background tidbits

Were certainly some interesting bits, always nice to find out new details about the obscure.

I'll buy the Imperial Fists would kill them in a straight up fight. That raises two questions from me and I hope someone answers them as I hate the Imperial Fists and fanboyism.

1. How often was Alpharius being outsmarted in the book and what was the absolute worst example?
2. Why would Alpharius ever go pick a fight in person?
3. How did he get a Necron weapon?

I don't know... I can understand the criticism of the book but after finishing it this week (without reading any spoilers or reviews) I came away with a good impression of it. I liked the way the AL were portrayed, and it was good that the weakness of the legion (pride) was displayed for the sake of balance.

The death of Alpharius had me reeling though... I'm still coming to terms with it. I'm glad he wasn't easily taken out by Dorn at least. Dorn needed help to win a fight that wasn't going too well for him (but who knows what would have happened). I suppose if Alpharius' death can be explained by hubris (Alpharius being convinced Dorn was there for the taking) I can live with it. I don't mind the XX being a legion that form intricate plots but occasionally lose when they get cocky.

On the other hand I'd be open to Alpharius returning if there's a good enough (very good) explanation for it. I don't know though... it's good for the series to have primarch fights ending in actual deaths. There aren't enough of them.

Maybe future releases will better explain the book. If psychic trickery can make any XX legionnaire Alpharius it would neatly explain Eskrador and allow the primarch to live on, but I have a bad feeling that isn't the case given the Omegon epilogue

 Iron_Captain wrote:

The Alpha Legion actually has only won one or two battles after the Dropsite Massacre so far...

Spare a thought for the VIII legion, AL has them beat hands down. They lose every campaign they're involved in. They get a few lines of fluff in the drop site massacre then it's off to the Eastern Fringe. Thramas goes well for a while but the DA eventually catch up to them and crush them. They fail spectacularly at Sotha (even the Tyranids take notice of this failure). Eventually a handful of them arrive at Terra in time to get smoked at the palace. It doesn't end there, after the heresy an 'unknown force' purges the Nostramo sector of all remaining Night Lords.

 Snake Tortoise wrote:
I don't know... I can understand the criticism of the book but after finishing it this week (without reading any spoilers or reviews) I came away with a good impression of it. I liked the way the AL were portrayed, and it was good that the weakness of the legion (pride) was displayed for the sake of balance.

The death of Alpharius had me reeling though... I'm still coming to terms with it. I'm glad he wasn't easily taken out by Dorn at least. Dorn needed help to win a fight that wasn't going too well for him (but who knows what would have happened). I suppose if Alpharius' death can be explained by hubris (Alpharius being convinced Dorn was there for the taking) I can live with it. I don't mind the XX being a legion that form intricate plots but occasionally lose when they get cocky.

On the other hand I'd be open to Alpharius returning if there's a good enough (very good) explanation for it. I don't know though... it's good for the series to have primarch fights ending in actual deaths. There aren't enough of them.

Maybe future releases will better explain the book. If psychic trickery can make any XX legionnaire Alpharius it would neatly explain Eskrador and allow the primarch to live on, but I have a bad feeling that isn't the case given the Omegon epilogue

I get Alpharius getting killed by hubris, but I have sneaky suspicion it would have been more in character to have gotten the Hell outta Dodge when the Phalanx appeared. Being cocky when your plan has failed on a galactic scale, and have a Legion and the entirety of the Sol system's defences bearing down on you, strikes me as an odd moment to wax lyrical. His weird monologue was too tacky it couldn't be saved by him sitting in a wheelie chair, stroking a cat. What was he even trying to do? Make Dorn believe being sneaky would help? I think Dorn failed that lesson centuries ago.

I mean, Alpharius' beef was even with Guilliman, for crying out loud.

 MarsNZ wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

The Alpha Legion actually has only won one or two battles after the Dropsite Massacre so far...

Spare a thought for the VIII legion, AL has them beat hands down. They lose every campaign they're involved in. They get a few lines of fluff in the drop site massacre then it's off to the Eastern Fringe. Thramas goes well for a while but the DA eventually catch up to them and crush them. They fail spectacularly at Sotha (even the Tyranids take notice of this failure). Eventually a handful of them arrive at Terra in time to get smoked at the palace. It doesn't end there, after the heresy an 'unknown force' purges the Nostramo sector of all remaining Night Lords.

Word Bearers are the ones I feel the most sorry for. The Night Lords at least have a great author writing them up! Our Primarchs are even portrayed with inconsistent personalities :(

Legion was a great book, but it was where it all went wrong for the Alphas.

I've been quite impressed with the Word Bearers. They were handled well in the majority in Mark of Calth, ADB has done a fine job in The First Heretic. I'll admit that I have even enjoyed Narek by my least favourite of the HH authors. Even in BftA I enjoyed the portrayal of Kor Phaeron. Ok, the other Word Bearers were stink bums in it though. Most of the book stunk like poo feet as well. But then Counter did a great job of describing void warfare and Skraal was a boss.

Let's face it, all the chaos legions get hit with turns of sucking arse from the plucky loyalists. Personally I feel most for the night lords (MarsNZ summed them up), as well as the Iron Warriors and World Eaters. The two of them don't win terribly much either, and when they do its through simply overrunning the enemy with numbers/firepower.
Just because the World Eaters/Iron warriors tend to fight in that style, doesn't mean they always have to. I want my workhorse legion back.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Legion was a great book, but it was where it all went wrong for the Alphas.

I've been quite impressed with the Word Bearers. They were handled well in the majority in Mark of Calth, ADB has done a fine job in The First Heretic. I'll admit that I have even enjoyed Narek by my least favourite of the HH authors. Even in BftA I enjoyed the portrayal of Kor Phaeron. Ok, the other Word Bearers were stink bums in it though. Most of the book stunk like poo feet as well. But then Counter did a great job of describing void warfare and Skraal was a boss.

I thought Legion was a decent book. The two-page conversion of Alpharius/pacing was the only issue as far as the writing was concerned. Not a fan of Perpetuals though, but otherwise I enjoyed it! It did an exciting job of the describing how the Alpha Legion operates.