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I've been playing Eldar for a couple years now, and I really like to play casual games with a large variety of units. Unfortunately, everyone I play with likes to play competitive lists. What should I get to make my army stand a chance? The only restriction I have is no Wraithknights.

9 wraithguard/wraithblade
1 war walker
1 avatar
1 wraithlord
1 weapons platform
7 farseers/warlocks w blade
1 farseer w spear
2 eldrad Ulthrans
17 guardians
6 swooping hawks and an exarch
5 avengers and an exarch
5 banshees and an exarch
5 scorpions and an exarch
5 rangers
1 wave serpent
1 falcon
1 vyper
1 crimson hunter/wraithfighter

1 solitare
5 harlequin troupe and leader

Edit: The list is what I have. I'm looking for options to build on what I have. I know the "super meta" is WK/scatter spam, but I don't have the money for a whole new army.

You are asking how to build a competitive Eldar list? My problem is toning the eldar book down so I can have a fun game with friends with less powerful armies.

MSU windriders with scatter lasers are powerful, 4 S6 shots each on a very mobile platform with a 3+ save and jink, with objsc.

Also warp spiders, more S6, wounding against I so good vs MCs and can jump out of range/ into cover whenever they are shot at.

Obviously WKs are powerful but as you can't take them wraithlords are decent, the only reason they aren't taken is their bigger brother works better for the points.

Falcons are a decent tank, and you will want some fire dragons to go in the back, any vehicle gets close and it will melt.

Your go to HQ should be a farseer, probably 2 in a game, with at least 1 on a bike. If you have the points give the bike one the spirit stones. 2 farseers are better than 1 eldrad.

I have a soft spot for dark reapers although they aren't the most competitive unit in the eldar book they are still good compared to other armies. Either kit them out to spam strength 8 shots at lighter vehicles or if there is going to be a lot of 3+ armour saves give the exarch a tempest launcher and keep the others with the S5 shots and watch marines disappear.

Rangers are okay for holding objectives but don't expect them to do any real damage, thy might take out 1 or 2 special weapons in a game.

Fire prisms can be good against horde armies, just avoid shooting the lance unless it has literally no other viable target as it misses 1/3 of the time and just doesn't do enough damage to be worth it.

Hawks were hit quite bad by only 1 grenade per phase so they can't glance stuff down with haywire any more.

There is not really much point in taking assault focused aspects I find.

Even if you are taking a CAD aspect warrior squads should always be in aspect host formations where possible, the only "downside" to getting +1 bs is having to take an exarch which isn't really a problem.

 CynosureEldar wrote:
I've been playing Eldar for a couple years now, and I really like to play casual games with a large variety of units. Unfortunately, everyone I play with likes to play competitive lists. What should I get to make my army stand a chance? The only restriction I have is no Wraithknights.

9 wraithguard/wraithblade
1 war walker
1 avatar
1 wraithlord
1 weapons platform
7 farseers/warlocks w blade
1 farseer w spear
2 eldrad Ulthrans
17 guardians
6 swooping hawks and an exarch
5 avengers and an exarch
5 banshees and an exarch
5 scorpions and an exarch
5 rangers
1 wave serpent
1 falcon
1 vyper
1 crimson hunter/wraithfighter

1 solitare
5 harlequin troupe and leader

Some comptetive enough ideas using your models (I assume, that this is a list of what you have?):

Put two Farseers in a squad with wraithguards and roll for daemonology to jump them forward using Gate of infinity, or put them all in wave serpent. Always use Crimson Hunter/Hemlock with Psychic Shriek, depending on what you face and if you really need those 2 more WC. You can make a decent Seer Council (as alternative to Wraithguard+Farseers), if you do so, put wraithguards in Wave Serpent and go kill the highest value target with D-Scythes. Banshees and Scorpions can somehow perform if you use them alongside Avatar buffs, but that is tricky... You can include your Harlequins (with Solitaire as "count as troupmaster", as there is no option to include him alone and 5 harlequins won't do much...) only in Doom of Mymeara Pale Courts (and there you also have some really nice ways to include some of your units with nice additional rules). Rebuild your Wraithlord as Wraithseer and use Pale Courts or Lord of the Undying Host formation. Falcon with Avengers and Swooping Hawks make for good crowd controll but don't count on them against power armour. Use War Walker's outflank ability to get remote objectives or snipe some backfield units with it, he is almost as good as scatbikes. Don't bother with Vyper or Guardians, use Avengers and Rangers as your troop choices.

That is about it. Contrary to what many Eldar haters here claim, you cannot build competetive Eldar list from any codex entry. You should invest in jetbikes and Warp Spiders if you want to be "current meta" or otherwise increase mobility of your army (you have only "single use" War Walker, Falcon, Wave Serpent, Vyper and Swooping Hawks as your fast objective grabbers, all of which are not really "stand alone", universal units...

How to build a competitive Eldar list in a nutshell.

Step 1 - obtain eldar codex.
Step 2 - draw a breath, verify that your heart is still beating.
Step 3 - randomly select units from the codex.

 auticus wrote:
How to build a competitive Eldar list in a nutshell.

Step 1 - obtain eldar codex.
Step 2 - draw a breath, verify that your heart is still beating.
Step 3 - randomly select units from the codex.

Hey that’s not fair! We’ve got... Lets see... Ummmm... Rangers! They are decidedly mediocre. Banshees also need a bit of support to work.

I will agree with the general sentiment that it’s not hard to make a decent Eldar list. The book has a number of horribly broken powerful units, and one or two “meh” units (which are still kinda functional). But the bulk of the book is solid. The greatest flaw most of them have is sharing a book with warp spiders/scatbikes/wraithknights/D-spam.

For the most part, just be sure you have a mix of firepower to deal with varied threats, and you should do OK. To get more competitive, just tweak the ratio of fun stuff to cheese.

 CynosureEldar wrote:
The only restriction I have is no Wraithknights.

And this is where you lost me. I get that some players have a distaste for the WK, but it is the best unit in the codex, possible the game.
Have you looking into the FW WKs? I have been using a Skathach WK with Inferno lances and it is really good and my opponents appreciate that it doesn't have D.
It really is the best compromise for players who want something competitive, but want to avoid most of the negative stigma of the codex WK.

Galef wrote:

 CynosureEldar wrote:
The only restriction I have is no Wraithknights.

And this is where you lost me. I get that some players have a distaste for the WK, but it is the best unit in the codex, possible the game.
Have you looking into the FW WKs? I have been using a Skathach WK with Inferno lances and it is really good and my opponents appreciate that it doesn't have D.
It really is the best compromise for players who want something competitive, but want to avoid most of the negative stigma of the codex WK.

These same people have indicted they do not want WK's in games, or FW for that matter.

auticus wrote:How to build a competitive Eldar list in a nutshell.

Step 1 - obtain eldar codex.
Step 2 - draw a breath, verify that your heart is still beating.
Step 3 - randomly select units from the codex.

You are not contributing to the conversation at all. Go hang out in a Traditio post.

Some comptetive enough ideas using your models (I assume, that this is a list of what you have?):

Put two Farseers in a squad with wraithguards and roll for daemonology to jump them forward using Gate of infinity, or put them all in wave serpent. Always use Crimson Hunter/Hemlock with Psychic Shriek, depending on what you face and if you really need those 2 more WC. You can make a decent Seer Council (as alternative to Wraithguard+Farseers), if you do so, put wraithguards in Wave Serpent and go kill the highest value target with D-Scythes. Banshees and Scorpions can somehow perform if you use them alongside Avatar buffs, but that is tricky... You can include your Harlequins (with Solitaire as "count as troupmaster", as there is no option to include him alone and 5 harlequins won't do much...) only in Doom of Mymeara Pale Courts (and there you also have some really nice ways to include some of your units with nice additional rules). Rebuild your Wraithlord as Wraithseer and use Pale Courts or Lord of the Undying Host formation. Falcon with Avengers and Swooping Hawks make for good crowd controll but don't count on them against power armour. Use War Walker's outflank ability to get remote objectives or snipe some backfield units with it, he is almost as good as scatbikes. Don't bother with Vyper or Guardians, use Avengers and Rangers as your troop choices.

That is about it. Contrary to what many Eldar haters here claim, you cannot build competetive Eldar list from any codex entry. You should invest in jetbikes and Warp Spiders if you want to be "current meta" or otherwise increase mobility of your army (you have only "single use" War Walker, Falcon, Wave Serpent, Vyper and Swooping Hawks as your fast objective grabbers, all of which are not really "stand alone", universal units...

I do like the idea of the Gate, but is that a santic or malfic power? Eldar cant use Malfic in our meta. War walkers seem like a good light points filler, how many would you recommend? I've tried the serpent/wraith trick and it gets blown up turn one every time (losing like 300 points of models in one go hurts. The wraith never survive to hit anything after the serpent gets pooted). We don't use flyers either, unless stated before the battle, but with only one flyer I lose a bunch of points to the inevitable three v one.

roflmajog wrote:You are asking how to build a competitive Eldar list? My problem is toning the eldar book down so I can have a fun game with friends with less powerful armies.

MSU windriders with scatter lasers are powerful, 4 S6 shots each on a very mobile platform with a 3+ save and jink, with objsc.

Also warp spiders, more S6, wounding against I so good vs MCs and can jump out of range/ into cover whenever they are shot at.

Obviously WKs are powerful but as you can't take them wraithlords are decent, the only reason they aren't taken is their bigger brother works better for the points.

Falcons are a decent tank, and you will want some fire dragons to go in the back, any vehicle gets close and it will melt.

Your go to HQ should be a farseer, probably 2 in a game, with at least 1 on a bike. If you have the points give the bike one the spirit stones. 2 farseers are better than 1 eldrad.

I have a soft spot for dark reapers although they aren't the most competitive unit in the eldar book they are still good compared to other armies. Either kit them out to spam strength 8 shots at lighter vehicles or if there is going to be a lot of 3+ armour saves give the exarch a tempest launcher and keep the others with the S5 shots and watch marines disappear.

Rangers are okay for holding objectives but don't expect them to do any real damage, thy might take out 1 or 2 special weapons in a game.

Fire prisms can be good against horde armies, just avoid shooting the lance unless it has literally no other viable target as it misses 1/3 of the time and just doesn't do enough damage to be worth it.

Hawks were hit quite bad by only 1 grenade per phase so they can't glance stuff down with haywire any more.

There is not really much point in taking assault focused aspects I find.

Even if you are taking a CAD aspect warrior squads should always be in aspect host formations where possible, the only "downside" to getting +1 bs is having to take an exarch which isn't really a problem.

I really don't have the cash to trash my entire army and start over (games are 1850). I agree, Dark reapers are cool as all gak.

What kind of competitive lists are we talking?

 CynosureEldar wrote:

I do like the idea of the Gate, but is that a santic or malfic power? Eldar cant use Malfic in our meta. War walkers seem like a good light points filler, how many would you recommend? I've tried the serpent/wraith trick and it gets blown up turn one every time (losing like 300 points of models in one go hurts. The wraith never survive to hit anything after the serpent gets pooted). We don't use flyers either, unless stated before the battle, but with only one flyer I lose a bunch of points to the inevitable three v one.

Gate is Sanctic, and you can roll for Daemonology with everything psychic in your codex, incl. Warlocks and Spiritseers. Your "wraithstar" with Eldrad and Spiritseer should be enough to be priority target for any army you face. It is quite common to build such star around DE Archon, so you don't have to roll for Daemonology at all. And yes, serpent/wraith combo is very "flip-of-a-coin" setup, with either them vanish turn 1 or them destroying the one thing they're after...

Does "no Forgeworld" restriction apply to all Forgeworld rules and models or Wraithknights only? Because with that many Guardians you have, converting them to Corsairs (or using them as "coun as") might also be a solution for you. And Corsairs while fun and VERY fluffy, aren't realy OP, so other than pure "no Forgeworld prejudice", they shouldn't be a problem for anyone to face.

How many War Walkers? That depends - if you intend to use Scout, then you need as many separate squads of them as your CAD allows, to force your enemy to overshoot his targets. But if you want to outflank with them, then you have to use squadrons, so they all can enter from same edge and shoot at the same valuable target before they are inevitably destroyed in retaliation. If I play them, I use two or three usually (but I do like "a bit of everything" lists and avoid competetive metas). Since you have one and they come in packs of three, two squads of two seem to be an optimal choice.

No Forgeworld and no flyers with your set of minis is a bit hard to figure out without any new purchases...

One other question - how do your typical table setup look? How many cover/LOS blocking terrain, what type of deployment zones, what missions?

 auticus wrote:
How to build a competitive Eldar list in a nutshell.

Step 1 - obtain eldar codex.
Step 2 - draw a breath, verify that your heart is still beating.
Step 3 - randomly select units from the codex.

Stormguardians.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 auticus wrote:
How to build a competitive Eldar list in a nutshell.

Step 1 - obtain eldar codex.
Step 2 - draw a breath, verify that your heart is still beating.
Step 3 - randomly select units from the codex.

Stormguardians.

Normal Guardians. Rangers. Vypers.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 auticus wrote:
How to build a competitive Eldar list in a nutshell.

Step 1 - obtain eldar codex.
Step 2 - draw a breath, verify that your heart is still beating.
Step 3 - randomly select units from the codex.

Stormguardians.

Normal Guardians. Rangers. Vypers.

And because this list includes three out of five troop choices in the codex is anyone realy surprised, that most Eldar lists are Windrider based? Take a look at Guardian Battlehost... It is the reason why I like Pale Courts so much - you can actually utilize Craftworld War Host detachment without Windrider Host and not end up with three useless squads of guardians in it.

But what about some Elite and HS choices? Shining Spears or Wraithlord anyone?

nou wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 auticus wrote:
How to build a competitive Eldar list in a nutshell.

Step 1 - obtain eldar codex.
Step 2 - draw a breath, verify that your heart is still beating.
Step 3 - randomly select units from the codex.

Stormguardians.

Normal Guardians. Rangers. Vypers.

And because this list includes three out of five troop choices in the codex is anyone realy surprised, that most Eldar lists are Windrider based? Take a look at Guardian Battlehost... It is the reason why I like Pale Courts so much - you can actually utilize Craftworld War Host detachment without Windrider Host and not end up with three useless squads of guardians in it.

But what about some Elite and HS choices? Shining Spears or Wraithlord anyone?

Spears are fast attack and I wouldn't class a wraithlord as a bad unit objectively. It isn't the best unit in the codex but that is just because of what is around it, not because it is a bad unit in and of itself.


Cyno I wasn't suggesting getting all of them, just general advice. Do you have a specific amount you would be willing to spend on new units? People could then make better suggestions on what to get. And do your models have magnetized weapons on them/ could you switch them out if needed?

 roflmajog wrote:

nou wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 auticus wrote:
How to build a competitive Eldar list in a nutshell.

Step 1 - obtain eldar codex.
Step 2 - draw a breath, verify that your heart is still beating.
Step 3 - randomly select units from the codex.

Stormguardians.

Normal Guardians. Rangers. Vypers.

And because this list includes three out of five troop choices in the codex is anyone realy surprised, that most Eldar lists are Windrider based? Take a look at Guardian Battlehost... It is the reason why I like Pale Courts so much - you can actually utilize Craftworld War Host detachment without Windrider Host and not end up with three useless squads of guardians in it.

But what about some Elite and HS choices? Shining Spears or Wraithlord anyone?

Spears are fast attack and I wouldn't class a wraithlord as a bad unit objectively. It isn't the best unit in the codex but that is just because of what is around it, not because it is a bad unit in and of itself.

Seems bad to me. Slow and not many attacks. But giving it ranged weapons is pretty costly.

It's a carnifex, but better in just about every way. Costs the same too.
To be fair, I wouldn't take a carnifex against a competitive list these days, so the comparison doesn't say much about its worth. Just that it stacks up ahead of its peers.

Arson Fire wrote:
It's a carnifex, but better in just about every way. Costs the same too.
To be fair, I wouldn't take a carnifex against a competitive list these days, so the comparison doesn't say much about its worth. Just that it stacks up ahead of its peers.

It's a Carnifex but with less wounds, weaker attacks, less attacks or equal depending on loadouts, ranged weapons seem comparable if not better on the Carnifex and much worse Hammer of Wrath. On top of that you can get a lot more Carnifexes than Wraithlords in an army if you want.

Run footslogging aspect warriors like a boss.

 NInjatactiks wrote:
Run footslogging aspect warriors like a boss.

I did so with my dire avengers when I started playing and I only had the batallion.

Somehow the exarch managed to roll 8 4++ in a row per wound.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 NInjatactiks wrote:
Run footslogging aspect warriors like a boss.

I did so with my dire avengers when I started playing and I only had the batallion.

Somehow the exarch managed to roll 8 4++ in a row per wound.

Wish mine did that. Mine refuse to pass any. Mind you the Dark Reaper Exarch makes up for it with rerolls on the To Hit from BS6.

pm713 wrote:

 roflmajog wrote:

nou wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 auticus wrote:
How to build a competitive Eldar list in a nutshell.

Step 1 - obtain eldar codex.
Step 2 - draw a breath, verify that your heart is still beating.
Step 3 - randomly select units from the codex.

Stormguardians.

Normal Guardians. Rangers. Vypers.

And because this list includes three out of five troop choices in the codex is anyone realy surprised, that most Eldar lists are Windrider based? Take a look at Guardian Battlehost... It is the reason why I like Pale Courts so much - you can actually utilize Craftworld War Host detachment without Windrider Host and not end up with three useless squads of guardians in it.

But what about some Elite and HS choices? Shining Spears or Wraithlord anyone?

Spears are fast attack and I wouldn't class a wraithlord as a bad unit objectively. It isn't the best unit in the codex but that is just because of what is around it, not because it is a bad unit in and of itself.

Seems bad to me. Slow and not many attacks. But giving it ranged weapons is pretty costly.

My bad, Shining Spears are indeed FA. This doesn't change the fact, that they are completely messed up unit without clear purpose. In theory they should be "anti MC" unit, but point-to-point they struggle to kill even Tyranid MCs (by struggle I mean, that they do not even achieve 50% succes ratio against Exocrines or Trygons or similiar MCs, which in turn reliably eat Shining Spears for lunch...)

And Wraithlord reliably die to 6-8 Lascannon/Krak missile shots or a squad of posion Hormagaunts and loses 1-on-1 shooting contest against an Exocrine if he cannot just sit at 36" range all the time. He has practical durability similiar to a War Walker Squadron with half the weaponry on board and worse mobility and even Pale Courts Disciples of Vaul Guardian Defenders are better, more durable point-to-point mobile double heavy weapons platform than him. And he won't ever get into CC. But this flaw is really a consequence of AP mechanics - everything non-poison that can wound him bypasses his save. I like the model and Wraith constructs concept, so I do use him for sentimental/fluff reasons, but he is nothing more than Eldar version of a distraction Carnifex and rarely (like once-in-five games odds) he earn his points back. (As a sidenote: what is most odd about him fluff-wise, he is the only Wraith-anything without acces to any Distortion weaponry, which is really a trademark of Wraith constructs, and historically he was a mobile D-cannon platform).

I was ninja'd by others while typing this reply. I agree, that WL is a bit better than a Carnifex, but Carnifex is a realy, realy bad at being competetive nowadays.

Aren't we forgetting Wraithblades there? They don't have D weaponry either.

Are Shining Spears that bad against MC's? I knew they weren't great but with that many S6 AP3 attacks and the Exarchs S8 AP2 rerolling I would've thought they'd be better than that against MC's.

pm713 wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:
It's a carnifex, but better in just about every way. Costs the same too.
To be fair, I wouldn't take a carnifex against a competitive list these days, so the comparison doesn't say much about its worth. Just that it stacks up ahead of its peers.

It's a Carnifex but with less wounds, weaker attacks, less attacks or equal depending on loadouts, ranged weapons seem comparable if not better on the Carnifex and much worse Hammer of Wrath. On top of that you can get a lot more Carnifexes than Wraithlords in an army if you want.

The extra toughness more than makes up for the wound in my opinion, doesn't die to spam S4 shots. Better WS/BS and I on WL. Also just did a little mathhammer in my head and pretty sure that a WL beats a carnifex in combat even if you give the fex the charge when both have standard loadout.
Just stick a WL on an objective with a toe in cover and he is gonna be hard to shift. He is good area denial.
I'm not saying they are a super competitive unit but they aren't exactly bad either.

pm713 wrote:
Aren't we forgetting Wraithblades there? They don't have D weaponry either.

Are Shining Spears that bad against MC's? I knew they weren't great but with that many S6 AP3 attacks and the Exarchs S8 AP2 rerolling I would've thought they'd be better than that against MC's.

Wraithblades aren't shooty constructs, so were out of scope of my comparison - are there any infantry-grade D CC weapons in the game, that aren't Relics?

And about Shining Spears - do the math against T6 W5/6 creatures that have either six s7ap2 or 12 S5/S6 shots (incl. Overwatch) and mind the 6" range on Shining Spears shooting and having S6 in CC only when charging. If they don't go "guns blazing" at MCs and succeed, they die to Smash. I play mainly against Tyranids and Shining Spears are realy, realy bad at their work. Harlequin Skyweavers are what Shining Spears were supposed to be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 roflmajog wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:
It's a carnifex, but better in just about every way. Costs the same too.
To be fair, I wouldn't take a carnifex against a competitive list these days, so the comparison doesn't say much about its worth. Just that it stacks up ahead of its peers.

It's a Carnifex but with less wounds, weaker attacks, less attacks or equal depending on loadouts, ranged weapons seem comparable if not better on the Carnifex and much worse Hammer of Wrath. On top of that you can get a lot more Carnifexes than Wraithlords in an army if you want.

The extra toughness more than makes up for the wound in my opinion, doesn't die to spam S4 shots. Better WS/BS and I on WL. Also just did a little mathhammer in my head and pretty sure that a WL beats a carnifex in combat even if you give the fex the charge when both have standard loadout.
Just stick a WL on an objective with a toe in cover and he is gonna be hard to shift. He is good area denial.
I'm not saying they are a super competitive unit but they aren't exactly bad either.

That is true, 1-on-1 WL vs Carnifex is almost certain WL victory. WL vs Stonecrusher is more of a 50-50 match if you can deliver Stonecrusher to CC.

But WL T8 doesn't compensate for fourth wound in army-vs-army practice because of what I wrote earlier - what can wound WL on 4+ usually does bypass his save just fine. And antyhing else that can wound him usually generates enough hits for 3+ save to fail enough times.

 roflmajog wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:
It's a carnifex, but better in just about every way. Costs the same too.
To be fair, I wouldn't take a carnifex against a competitive list these days, so the comparison doesn't say much about its worth. Just that it stacks up ahead of its peers.

It's a Carnifex but with less wounds, weaker attacks, less attacks or equal depending on loadouts, ranged weapons seem comparable if not better on the Carnifex and much worse Hammer of Wrath. On top of that you can get a lot more Carnifexes than Wraithlords in an army if you want.

The extra toughness more than makes up for the wound in my opinion, doesn't die to spam S4 shots. Better WS/BS and I on WL. Also just did a little mathhammer in my head and pretty sure that a WL beats a carnifex in combat even if you give the fex the charge when both have standard loadout.
Just stick a WL on an objective with a toe in cover and he is gonna be hard to shift. He is good area denial.
I'm not saying they are a super competitive unit but they aren't exactly bad either.

S4 spam is hardly a huge threat. The BS3 is offset by the fact you can take twin linked weapons very easily and WS is hardly the most important stat and neither is the Init. From what I got in my head it's a pretty close thing but someone should probably do it properly.

Well you need to be 25% obscured for cover and that's 120pts on nothing considering it takes a long time to reach objectives not in your deployment zone. There are much better ways to spend points in most books really. I'm not saying they're the worst thing ever or anything just that they aren't very good.

One more "fun way to kill a WL with Tyranids in 1-on-1 duel" is to take three Hive Guards and watch how they obliterate WL from behind LOS blocking terrain while he desperately tries reach any angle on them moving 6+d6" per turn... And current Codex Tyranids is absolutely properly treated as a thrash tier codex with a single competetive build...

OP:

Here's my preliminary thought:

1. Why do you have a group of 9 wraithguard/wraithblades?

My first recommendation is to get one more wraithguard/wraithblade so that you can break them up into 2 squads.

If you have the bits, make them all wraithguard. Put each in a transport, if you have the transports.

A squad of 5 wraithguard is plenty for any given thread. 9 is overkill and a points sink.

2. Bunch the farseers up into seer councils. Depending on how competitive your meta is, cast invisibility on the wraithguard transports. One of your farseers will probably end up getting it if you take enough farseers.

Caveat:

I don't know how competitive your meta is. I personally would turn down a game with an eldar player running a seer council. Eldritch storm is an unfair power. Feth it. Feth it to the warp. If your opponent are running teleporting grav centurions, different story.

Gate is Sanctic, and you can roll for Daemonology with everything psychic in your codex, incl. Warlocks and Spiritseers. Your "wraithstar" with Eldrad and Spiritseer should be enough to be priority target for any army you face. It is quite common to build such star around DE Archon, so you don't have to roll for Daemonology at all. And yes, serpent/wraith combo is very "flip-of-a-coin" setup, with either them vanish turn 1 or them destroying the one thing they're after...

Does "no Forgeworld" restriction apply to all Forgeworld rules and models or Wraithknights only? Because with that many Guardians you have, converting them to Corsairs (or using them as "coun as") might also be a solution for you. And Corsairs while fun and VERY fluffy, aren't realy OP, so other than pure "no Forgeworld prejudice", they shouldn't be a problem for anyone to face.

How many War Walkers? That depends - if you intend to use Scout, then you need as many separate squads of them as your CAD allows, to force your enemy to overshoot his targets. But if you want to outflank with them, then you have to use squadrons, so they all can enter from same edge and shoot at the same valuable target before they are inevitably destroyed in retaliation. If I play them, I use two or three usually (but I do like "a bit of everything" lists and avoid competetive metas). Since you have one and they come in packs of three, two squads of two seem to be an optimal choice.

No Forgeworld and no flyers with your set of minis is a bit hard to figure out without any new purchases...

One other question - how do your typical table setup look? How many cover/LOS blocking terrain, what type of deployment zones, what missions?

Ahh, forgot about DE. Can you do the same teleporting trick with a wraith gate? Better question, is it technically "legal" to bring the wraithgate? What's the most cost effective, Archon, Gate, or Deamonology? My meta is competitive Tau/SM, so my WG literally never make it (sometimes I get the IG player, and those are 100% about if it's hammer and anvil. His strategy is 9001 pie plates. I still lose).

It's a prejudice. So the WW aren't useless? I just liked building it, but the one time I got to field one, it just kinda died.

Table setup - looks kinda like this -> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/TGYL75OV6p8/maxresdefault.jpg -> but only two big-ish buildings, a few rocks about as big as a WG, and some scattered rubble. The
FLGS "average" table has the same idea, but like 2 more big buildings.

I can spend about $250 on new models. That doesn't rule out the future.

And because this list includes three out of five troop choices in the codex is anyone realy surprised, that most Eldar lists are Windrider based? Take a look at Guardian Battlehost... It is the reason why I like Pale Courts so much - you can actually utilize Craftworld War Host detachment without Windrider Host and not end up with three useless squads of guardians in it.

But what about some Elite and HS choices? Shining Spears or Wraithlord anyone?

Guardians are useful, 2 editions ago. They kick infantry a$$, but when everyone just takes tanks/MC/GMC......

Cyno I wasn't suggesting getting all of them, just general advice. Do you have a specific amount you would be willing to spend on new units? People could then make better suggestions on what to get. And do your models have magnetized weapons on them/ could you switch them out if needed?

I'm sorry roflmajog, on further read, I sounded really snappy, and that was not my intention. About 250$ for now, but someday I want to be able to have several units of each space elf model. I magnetize 95% of my models. The only exceptions so far are the metal models, and a plastic Dire Avenger.

Run footslogging aspect warriors like a boss.

Lol, it works about 1/33 games. (In ~100 games, I've won 3 times with my elves, and once with a borrowed DA army.)

Just stick a WL on an objective with a toe in cover and he is gonna be hard to shift. He is good area denial.
I'm not saying they are a super competitive unit but they aren't exactly bad either.

He's one of the few units that always helps, even just a little, that I have. Auto pick for me.

Shining Spears

Trash. Don't bother. Tried proxying these several times, never do anything. At all.




Thanks for everyone's feedback so far. You guys have been super helpful, and my desire to play is slowly returning.

I think if I was you I would go for:
Start Collecting! Eldar - $85 (1 Bike Farser, 3 bikes and a fire prism)
Eldar Windriders - $41
Eldar Windriders - $41
Fire Dragons - $41.25
and either
Dark Reapers - $41.25
or
Warp Spiders - $41.25

Total: $249.50

Then try to get another wraithguard from ebay to make 2 squads of 5.

What are common ruins rules in your area? Are they movement blocking or just "walk through" 5+ cover?

War Walkers will inevitably die, that is out of the question. But with scout/outflank you can always find a target for them, no matter if you go first or second, and two of them with four scatter lasers cost only 10pt more than a naked Wraithlord. That is 12 s6 shots that can get shoot side armour of enemy back line tanks/artilery/whatever. Of course, scatterbikes can do better, but WW are next best thing in terms of firepower-per-point.

Just to straighten things up: Archon is used as a bearer for Webway Portal. You must use DE Allied Detachment, so he comes with a tax of two DE Troop choices, but you can use them a bit more effective than current iteration of Guardians (they have exactly same stats and cost the same, but come in packs of 5 and basic weapon has 24" Rapid Fire and poison 4+). You can also put them in Deep Striking Venoms and still be in point cost range of typical Guardian Defenders. Proxy them with guardians, and if you decide this setup is usefull, there are nice Ebay sales on them. Daemonology Gate of Infinity isn't guaranteed and scatter normally (that is why some people include Baharroth in this setup), but with two Farseers in it, a "Wraithstar" of 9 D-Scythes with Fortune cast on them will destroy everything IG has on the backfield in just a couple of turns. To sum up - Archon is the best choice if you're comfortable with DE allies, Daemonology is a bit less reliant but Baharroth is a bit cheaper than necessary DE Allies to make this star not scatter on arrival.

If you have 250$ to spend, two Start Collecting boxes and one additional bike squad comes at 211$ straight from GW and give you enough bikes, farseers and tanks to become "instantly competetive". 9 bikes total give you the best compulsory troops in the game, you already have a Vyper, so you'll be able to build Windrider Host and Fire Prisms are next best tank when you cannot use FW Warp Hunters. But be warned: you will become a "cookie cutter, typical Eldar player" this way...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 roflmajog wrote:
I think if I was you I would go for:
Start Collecting! Eldar - $85 (1 Bike Farser, 3 bikes and a fire prism)
Eldar Windriders - $41
Eldar Windriders - $41
Fire Dragons - $41.25
and either
Dark Reapers - $41.25
or
Warp Spiders - $41.25

Total: $249.50

Then try to get another wraithguard from ebay to make 2 squads of 5.

That is also a valid "shopping list", but IMHO go with two squads of Warp Spiders instead of Dark Reapers and Fire Dragons, WS are far more universal choice and Fire Dragons really double up their purpose with Wraithcannon Wraithguards you already have and require the same "(Falcon or) Wave Serpent delivery service" that have failed you.

nou wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 roflmajog wrote:
I think if I was you I would go for:
Start Collecting! Eldar - $85 (1 Bike Farser, 3 bikes and a fire prism)
Eldar Windriders - $41
Eldar Windriders - $41
Fire Dragons - $41.25
and either
Dark Reapers - $41.25
or
Warp Spiders - $41.25

Total: $249.50

Then try to get another wraithguard from ebay to make 2 squads of 5.

That is also a valid "shopping list", but IMHO go with two squads of Warp Spiders instead of Dark Reapers and Fire Dragons, WS are far more universal choice and Fire Dragons really double up their purpose with Wraithcannon Wraithguards you already have and require the same "(Falcon or) Wave Serpent delivery service" that have failed you.

Yes it has failed him in the past and will continue to fail him in the future which is why you build redundancy into the list, when one goes down the other reaches the target. He can't rely on just the one thing in his list which usually dies early to take out something like an imperial knight.