Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Greetings, Dakka!

So.... Who do you think is actually "winning" in the 40k universe?

I've given multiple choice answers if you can't decide between the two.

Kinda hard to decide. Everyone has a difference definition or 'Winning"

Imperium's goal is conquering the galaxy for mankind, which they have not/are not in the process of doing, not even close, so no to them.

Chaos is to kill the Empire and cause genuine Chaos, so kinda winning?

Tau Empire's goal is the expand and convert the whole galaxy to the Greater Good, which they aren't even fething close. Or their goal could be not to annoy the Imperium enough so they won't stomp them.

Eldar's goal is survive, which they are doing rather well actually, with the whole redirecting the Orks away from a craftworld straight at Armageddon.

Necron's goal is the utter annihilation of all Life, which yeah, nadda.

Dark Eldar's goal is survival too, while also having fun, so kinda winning too.

Orks goal is to have a jolly good fight, which they are most definitely doing, and doing well.

Tyranids goal is to eat everything in existence. They are making solid progress.


So, scale of 1-7

1. Orks
2. Tyranids
3. Eldar/Dark Eldar
4. Necrons
5. Chaos
6. Imperium
7. Tau Empire

Agreed. Everyone's 'winning' for a given explanation of winning.

However, if you boil it down I'd say the Orks are winning the most at the moment. Shortly to be overtaken by the Tyranids when their main swarm arrives...

I can see your points, you two.

The only thing I'd disagree with is the full expanse of what the Imperium is. Sure, in the universe there are more tyranids than anything I believe, and inevitably they have a high chance of winning, and I suppose Orks will win simply because as long as there's fighting it's fun for them. However, just in the galaxy alone, nobpody has such a massive, united empire to that standard, I'm afraid, as the Imperium is incredibly numerous yet has the capacity for good technology. They have a bit of everything, and although there's a chance it will crumble as... According to some spoilers there's a lot of drama in a few millennia to do with the Emperor, Imperium and things get a lot worse for everybody.... Swallowing planets and.... I probably shouldn't ruin it.

But yeah, as of now I'd count in the imperium as they see more victory and additions to their ranks than anything else.

This poll might have slighty different results in the summer once 8th ed has rolled out...

Probably Chaos.

Tzeentch thrives on this kind of setting, where everyone's planning against each other. As long as 40k continues to exist, Tzeentch is in a perpetual state of winning, but never gets to actually win.

The mortal servants may have some other goals that they could win or lose at, but the Great Game will always be played.

Chaos has been winning for the last 10 thousand years.

Do not confuse Chaos with Chaos Space Marines or Chaos Cultists. They are not the same.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheoreticalFish wrote:

Chaos is to kill the Empire and cause genuine Chaos, so kinda winning?

This is the opposite of what Chaos wants. It needs the Imperium to exist exactly how it currently exists.

The imperium is on the decline; we are, after all, in the Time of Ending

The Tyranids are just starting to reach the galaxy, the heart of the swarm has not yet arrived. Mankind blanches at the thought they have not seen their full wrath yet.

The Necrons are just awakening; we have only see the tip of a very dark iceberg with them.

The Eldar are dying as they lose world after world as they are pushed to floating mausoleums of their past glory. It will not be long before those not devoured by Slaanesh will exist only in an infinity circuit - is such a fate any different from the soulless metal of their necron foes?

Da Orks, dey always win - if they wins they wins, if dey retreat dey get ta fight anovver day, and if dey die dat don't count.

The Tau are just beginning and winning on the fronts they are engaged in ... yet it's such a small pool they're fighting in.

Chaos has already lost - slaves to mad gods and their wild whims. The only question is, who will they drag down with them?

 Stormonu wrote:
Chaos has already lost - slaves to mad gods and their wild whims. The only question is, who will they drag down with them?

Chaos will always exist, as long as there are beings of emotion in the universe the gods will have their feed, and as for the mad followers of chaos and their enemies? It matters not who dies or what is destroyed, it is all in service to chaos!

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Chaos has already lost - slaves to mad gods and their wild whims. The only question is, who will they drag down with them?

Chaos will always exist, as long as there are beings of emotion in the universe the gods will have their feed, and as for the mad followers of chaos and their enemies? It matters not who dies or what is destroyed, it is all in service to chaos!

Provided the Chaos Gods aren't endemic to our galaxy.

There might be other warp predators out there in the depths of the universe that make our lovecraftian entities look like goldfish...

Wherever there are beings within the warp chaos is sure to follow, whether that be in our galaxy or in one a billion light years away.

In the grim darkness of the future there is only war. Orks are in heaven. I don't think there is a happier race in the galaxy.

Orks are the true winners. They are already in heaven.

I'm throwing my lot in with the Harlequins. They survived the fall, they're running some sort of end game that's just coming to fruition.

Exactly as planned.

I think the Imperium deserves high marks.

Everyone's talking about the creeping doom approaching from all sides. Because every incursion runs into their massive empire.

It's all falling on the Imperium because they're the existing head honchos. Even if they fall they are already on the podium, so to speak.

The Imperium is currently by far the first galactic superpower. Remove all threats and let them concentrate on one opponent at a time and they have no match. Their weakening come from the multiplications of these opponents. Nevertheless, this status could change if the Necrons continue to awaken or if more and more Hive Fleets enter the galaxy (which will appearently happen).

Engrenages wrote:
The Imperium is currently by far the first galactic superpower. Remove all threats and let them concentrate on one opponent at a time and they have no match. Their weakening come from the multiplications of these opponents. Nevertheless, this status could change if the Necrons continue to awaken or if more and more Hive Fleets enter the galaxy (which will appearently happen).

The first galatic superpower? What about the Eldar, Necrons, Old ones, etc.? The imperium isn't the first to become a galactic superpower and they won't be the last; they have already had their peak of their empire and now it is slowly crumbling.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Engrenages wrote:
The Imperium is currently by far the first galactic superpower. Remove all threats and let them concentrate on one opponent at a time and they have no match. Their weakening come from the multiplications of these opponents. Nevertheless, this status could change if the Necrons continue to awaken or if more and more Hive Fleets enter the galaxy (which will appearently happen).

The first galatic superpower? What about the Eldar, Necrons, Old ones, etc.? The imperium isn't the first to become a galactic superpower and they won't be the last; they have already had their peak of their empire and now it is slowly crumbling.

True. The Imperium is far from the first galactic superpower. Old Ones, Necrons, Eldar and DAoT Humans all came before it. But the Imperium the only one currently in existance in 40k.
The Old Ones are dead, the Eldar nearly wiped out and that the Necron empire is a mere memory. The Imperium is the only galactic superpower and it is in an incredibly strong position. Sure, it has lost some of its power since the Horus Heresy, but to say that it is slowly crumbling is just plain wrong. In fact, it is still expanding, wins the vast majority of battles and campaigns it commits to and is still increasing its power. The Imperium has yet to reach its absolute peak.

If there currently is any faction in the 40k universe that is winning it is the Imperium. Unless dominating the entire galaxy and winning virtually all important battles for some reason does not count as winning to someone.

Chaos. The veil between reality and the warp is now thin and almost ready to be broken completely.

I'd have to agree that currently in 40k the Imperium is the most powerful, though I believe the same will happen in 40k as what happened in fantasy, especially as they are reflections of each other, where the "good" guys lose.

The only thing is.... Who to? The necrons are coming back and bloody hell are they mightily pissed off at how "their empire" has turned out. Eldar hate necrons and (like DA and HA in WHFB) I believe Dark Eldar/Eldar may unite with the Tau and Imperium to survive. Sure, they hate each other, but they hate the necrons, chaos, orks and tyranids and like survival a lot more.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

True. The Imperium is far from the first galactic superpower. Old Ones, Necrons, Eldar and DAoT Humans all came before it. But the Imperium the only one currently in existance in 40k.
The Old Ones are dead, the Eldar nearly wiped out and that the Necron empire is a mere memory. The Imperium is the only galactic superpower and it is in an incredibly strong position. Sure, it has lost some of its power since the Horus Heresy, but to say that it is slowly crumbling is just plain wrong. In fact, it is still expanding, wins the vast majority of battles and campaigns it commits to and is still increasing its power. The Imperium has yet to reach its absolute peak.

If there currently is any faction in the 40k universe that is winning it is the Imperium. Unless dominating the entire galaxy and winning virtually all important battles for some reason does not count as winning to someone.

If rumours are to be believed, the 40k 'end times' will include the completion of the crimson path and the fall of Terra. This will most likely be acompanied by; the return of the Necrons and the slow rebuild of their empire; the Tyranids' fleets finally arriving in full force and devoiring the 'east' of the galaxy; the Tau taking advantage of the weakened imperium to expand their empire; and the Orks just having lots of fun with all these new things to fight.

To think that the imperium, as it is, will survive the coming wars is naive: at best the imperium will relocate it's world capital to Macragge and hold out until the new invaders have torn each other to shreds.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Engrenages wrote:
The Imperium is currently by far the first galactic superpower. Remove all threats and let them concentrate on one opponent at a time and they have no match. Their weakening come from the multiplications of these opponents. Nevertheless, this status could change if the Necrons continue to awaken or if more and more Hive Fleets enter the galaxy (which will appearently happen).

The first galatic superpower? What about the Eldar, Necrons, Old ones, etc.? The imperium isn't the first to become a galactic superpower and they won't be the last; they have already had their peak of their empire and now it is slowly crumbling.

CURRENTLY [...] the first galactic superpower. Why are you talking about the Old Ones who are no longer around, the Eldar who are on the verge of extinction, the Necrons who are just awakening ?

Engrenages wrote:
CURRENTLY [...] the first galactic superpower. Why are you talking about the Old Ones who are no longer around, the Eldar who are on the verge of extinction, the Necrons who are just awakening ?

I feel like there is a language barrier here because "currently the first" makes no sense. You could say "The Imperium is the current galactic superpower" without "first", then it would make sense.

Necrons are just awakening for now but think about it....

The warp is about to collide with our faces, tyranids are most likely coming in such large numbers we won't believe it, the Tau Empire is rapidly expanding... That with our already existing enemies, an awakening of a robot empire is pretty scary and bad for business. They'll probably be awkward as hell and awaken at the worst time, like when chaos and tyranos are at full strength and at our doorstep.

 blood ravens addiction wrote:
Necrons are just awakening for now but think about it....

The warp is about to collide with our faces, tyranids are most likely coming in such large numbers we won't believe it, the Tau Empire is rapidly expanding... That with our already existing enemies, an awakening of a robot empire is pretty scary and bad for business. They'll probably be awkward as hell and awaken at the worst time, like when chaos and tyranos are at full strength and at our doorstep.

... and yet, the Imperium getting votes despite losing in the grand scheme of things and damned near every other faction is strengthening.

True, though the same happens to all empires. All empires fluctuate in size and do sometimes get split into sections, invaded in many areas, lose ground.... But all these soldiers being bred in the centre of the Imperium's strength have to go somewhere, and I believe that there will eventually be a border where nobody can break through any further, and then they will expand/unite again. I mean sure they'll fall, but spoilers suggest events that are 5-6 millennia in the future, so it's not anytime soon, at least.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Engrenages wrote:
CURRENTLY [...] the first galactic superpower. Why are you talking about the Old Ones who are no longer around, the Eldar who are on the verge of extinction, the Necrons who are just awakening ?

I feel like there is a language barrier here because "currently the first" makes no sense. You could say "The Imperium is the current galactic superpower" without "first", then it would make sense.

Currently the : "first galactic power" as in most powerful, foremost galactic power, etc.

First is still not the best word to use.

But yes you are right: currently the Imperium is the strongest empire but that also makes them the biggest target.

The Tau are winning, because they are the only faction that continues to advance in technology. Every day the Tau survive is one day closer to the point where their weapons are unstoppable, and the galaxy falls effortlessly before their Empire. Every other faction can, at best, hold on to what they already have and fight desperately to keep things from getting any worse.

 Peregrine wrote:
The Tau are winning, because they are the only faction that continues to advance in technology. Every day the Tau survive is one day closer to the point where their weapons are unstoppable, and the galaxy falls effortlessly before their Empire. Every other faction can, at best, hold on to what they already have and fight desperately to keep things from getting any worse.

They're still a long way away from going toe to toe with the Imperium, in terms of sheer power at least. Would be good to know how many Eldar remnants there roughly are in the galaxy too, or Necron dynasties - I doubt they'd be too keen on the Empire expanding any further than it has already.

Apart from voting for myself, I voted Tyranids, in the sense that they are truly becoming an unstoppable force that will most likely forge incredibly unlikely alliances if GW ever progresses the storyline; some of the Imperium's most famous and greatest warriors fought a single Hive Fleet and barely came out of it alive and intact... gak's getting real with them if you ask me.

G.A