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Exactly as the title says. If so, who and why?

Yes. According to the Deathwatch codex, there is only one chapter who willingly does not send marines to the Deathwatch, though it is not named. And we're not counting the Grey Knights.

That said, there are a number of chapters that don't respect the Deathwatch, and essentially use it as a dumping ground for their unwanted marines, in the hopes that they'll either make a name for themselves or die in the process. In either case, they're someone else's headache now. These include the Carcharodons, the Marines Malevolent, the Minotaurs, and even the Space Wolves on occasion.

jareddm wrote:
Yes. According to the Deathwatch codex, there is only one chapter who willingly does not send marines to the Deathwatch, though it is not named. And we're not counting the Grey Knights.

That said, there are a number of chapters that don't respect the Deathwatch, and essentially use it as a dumping ground for their unwanted marines, in the hopes that they'll either make a name for themselves or die in the process. In either case, they're someone else's headache now. These include the Carcharodons, the Marines Malevolent, the Minotaurs, and even the Space Wolves on occasion.

Do we have any idea who that chapter is? And does that chapter still send the recruits, just angrily or do they outright refuse?

Here's the quote from the codex,

"Hundreds of chapters have taken the sacred oath to thie their warriors to the Deathwatch in times of need, and only one of them has been found wanting, its honour forever tarnished."

That's all there is.

jareddm wrote:
Here's the quote from the codex,

"Hundreds of chapters have taken the sacred oath to thie their warriors to the Deathwatch in times of need, and only one of them has been found wanting, its honour forever tarnished."

That's all there is.

Honor forever tarnished.... hmm the most dishonored chapter is the Dark Angels so it must be them!!!!! Those pictures which depict the Dark angel markings and those stories with Dark Angels attached to the DW are incorrect. I'm just putting two and two together. No honor=DA.

RIP Poor Black Templars who were merely trying to help

jareddm wrote:
Yes. According to the Deathwatch codex, there is only one chapter who willingly does not send marines to the Deathwatch, though it is not named. And we're not counting the Grey Knights.

That said, there are a number of chapters that don't respect the Deathwatch, and essentially use it as a dumping ground for their unwanted marines, in the hopes that they'll either make a name for themselves or die in the process. In either case, they're someone else's headache now. These include the Carcharodons, the Marines Malevolent, the Minotaurs, and even the Space Wolves on occasion.

I used to think the same but I had this out with another poster and now I doubt that the Space Wolves 'dump' unwanted marines in the Deathwatch.
Firstly, they have a dumping ground for unwanted brothers in the Wolfblade - called an 'Honour Guard' the Wolfblade is actually a punishment in the eyes of most Wolves, they don't get many chances to chase glory.
Secondly is the matter of Lukas Strifeson.
If the Wolves wanted to dump someone it would be him and Deathwatch would be a perfect place for him
- He'd be spending the rest of his life out of the Wolves' hair.
- He's massacred more Xenos than most Kill Teams could claim in their history so he'd be readily accepted.
- Honour earned in the Deathwatch is reflected back on the tithing chapter, given free reign like he would be in the Deathwatch Lukas would earn the Wolves huge props.
- It is unknown if Lukas actually holds a grudge or not but his run in with the Dark Eldar where his secondary heart got torn out as a trophy and he got booted out an airlock is enough to make any member of the Deathwatch believe he's all for the theme of "Suffer not the alien to live".

But the Wolves refuse to send him there.

As for the original question - My bet is Red Scorpions.
Look them up, it's hard to deny them as the best contenders.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

jareddm wrote:
Yes. According to the Deathwatch codex, there is only one chapter who willingly does not send marines to the Deathwatch, though it is not named. And we're not counting the Grey Knights.

That said, there are a number of chapters that don't respect the Deathwatch, and essentially use it as a dumping ground for their unwanted marines, in the hopes that they'll either make a name for themselves or die in the process. In either case, they're someone else's headache now. These include the Carcharodons, the Marines Malevolent, the Minotaurs, and even the Space Wolves on occasion.

I used to think the same but I had this out with another poster and now I doubt that the Space Wolves 'dump' unwanted marines in the Deathwatch.
Firstly, they have a dumping ground for unwanted brothers in the Wolfblade - called an 'Honour Guard' the Wolfblade is actually a punishment in the eyes of most Wolves, they don't get many chances to chase glory.
Secondly is the matter of Lukas Strifeson.
If the Wolves wanted to dump someone it would be him and Deathwatch would be a perfect place for him
- He'd be spending the rest of his life out of the Wolves' hair.
- He's massacred more Xenos than most Kill Teams could claim in their history so he'd be readily accepted.
- Honour earned in the Deathwatch is reflected back on the tithing chapter, given free reign like he would be in the Deathwatch Lukas would earn the Wolves huge props.
- It is unknown if Lukas actually holds a grudge or not but his run in with the Dark Eldar where his secondary heart got torn out as a trophy and he got booted out an airlock is enough to make any member of the Deathwatch believe he's all for the theme of "Suffer not the alien to live".

But the Wolves refuse to send him there.

As for the original question - My bet is Red Scorpions.
Look them up, it's hard to deny them as the best contenders.

Drenn Redblade. His story makes it crystal clear that he was not wanted and the Deathwatch was an out. Even if he was tricked into it.

Note the, "On occasion."

And it's not the Red Scorpions. They have an apothecary, Kregor Thann, serving in the fight against the Tyranids. Most likely there is no specific chapter in mind, or if there is, I doubt it's one that is known beyond a name. I just like it as a little bit more mystery added back into 40k.

jareddm wrote:
Here's the quote from the codex,

"Hundreds of chapters have taken the sacred oath to thie their warriors to the Deathwatch in times of need, and only one of them has been found wanting, its honour forever tarnished."

That's all there is.

This quote is interesting. Stating that Hundreds of Chapters took an oath about the deathwatch would to me imply that a chapter that opposes the deathwatch could just not take the oath. No idea about the single chapter who took the oath and then refused.

jareddm wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

jareddm wrote:
Yes. According to the Deathwatch codex, there is only one chapter who willingly does not send marines to the Deathwatch, though it is not named. And we're not counting the Grey Knights.

That said, there are a number of chapters that don't respect the Deathwatch, and essentially use it as a dumping ground for their unwanted marines, in the hopes that they'll either make a name for themselves or die in the process. In either case, they're someone else's headache now. These include the Carcharodons, the Marines Malevolent, the Minotaurs, and even the Space Wolves on occasion.

I used to think the same but I had this out with another poster and now I doubt that the Space Wolves 'dump' unwanted marines in the Deathwatch.
Firstly, they have a dumping ground for unwanted brothers in the Wolfblade - called an 'Honour Guard' the Wolfblade is actually a punishment in the eyes of most Wolves, they don't get many chances to chase glory.
Secondly is the matter of Lukas Strifeson.
If the Wolves wanted to dump someone it would be him and Deathwatch would be a perfect place for him
- He'd be spending the rest of his life out of the Wolves' hair.
- He's massacred more Xenos than most Kill Teams could claim in their history so he'd be readily accepted.
- Honour earned in the Deathwatch is reflected back on the tithing chapter, given free reign like he would be in the Deathwatch Lukas would earn the Wolves huge props.
- It is unknown if Lukas actually holds a grudge or not but his run in with the Dark Eldar where his secondary heart got torn out as a trophy and he got booted out an airlock is enough to make any member of the Deathwatch believe he's all for the theme of "Suffer not the alien to live".

But the Wolves refuse to send him there.

As for the original question - My bet is Red Scorpions.
Look them up, it's hard to deny them as the best contenders.

Drenn Redblade. His story makes it crystal clear that he was not wanted and the Deathwatch was an out. Even if he was tricked into it.

Note the, "On occasion."

And it's not the Red Scorpions. They have an apothecary, Kregor Thann, serving in the fight against the Tyranids. Most likely there is no specific chapter in mind, or if there is, I doubt it's one that is known beyond a name. I just like it as a little bit more mystery added back into 40k.

He was tricked there by his Wolf Lord, not dumped there by his Chapter, still, fair call.
Had to look up Thann, they even used the term 'tithed' so I haven't got a leg to stand on in that argument.

Chapters may not spite there oath. And may honour it.

However it does not mean they might send there very best talents or refuse to let a marine take the most values relics on there watch.

Serve but keep there very best for there own planned progression.

Drenn brings up an interesting question.
Was it Rainbow Warriors who were found wanting?

There may be a few times tgry may be able to refuse.

Say like crimson fists after the losses and deathwatch come on regular recruitment run

Saying. We cannot spare the marines is valid.

Forgive me if im wrong, but there (maybe) used to be fluff about the Space Wolves only ever allowing a single marine to serve in the deathwatch at once? It might have been something someone made up that i heard but just thought I'd throw it out incase it helps.

 HANZERtank wrote:
Forgive me if im wrong, but there (maybe) used to be fluff about the Space Wolves only ever allowing a single marine to serve in the deathwatch at once? It might have been something someone made up that i heard but just thought I'd throw it out incase it helps.

Not so much...retconned at a guess.
Drenn Redblade
Watch Captain Greymane
Hengir Stormhowl
Franrir Blackfang
Jaegrel Goldentorc

All currently serving according to the Deathwatch codex.
In the novel there's more, damned if I can remember their names, let alone spell them.

A good definitely answer is my old standby 'it depends'.

Chapter Masters answer only the Emperor so we imagine they have a lot of personal say in how a chapter is run. Chapter Master Adam might love the Deathwatch and send his best and brightest, a century later Master Barl thinks it's a waste and refuses to even speak to their envoys, two centuries after that Master Cirol sends a few nar'do'wells to get rid of them, and a a century after him Master Damnus says he'd love to send troops, but only after this anti-Ork Crusade is done.

It's the sort of answer which opens lots of possibilities. Within a DW squad you might have a straight arrow send because he's the best of the best, and a half insane bezerker sent to get him out of the way.

I like that line about 100s of chapter have sworn their oaths, which means anywhere from 1 to 800 chapters have not. maybe they were never asked, maybe they never could, maybe they refuse. Lots of potential stories there too.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
A good definitely answer is my old standby 'it depends'.

Chapter Masters answer only the Emperor so we imagine they have a lot of personal say in how a chapter is run. Chapter Master Adam might love the Deathwatch and send his best and brightest, a century later Master Barl thinks it's a waste and refuses to even speak to their envoys, two centuries after that Master Cirol sends a few nar'do'wells to get rid of them, and a a century after him Master Damnus says he'd love to send troops, but only after this anti-Ork Crusade is done.

It's the sort of answer which opens lots of possibilities. Within a DW squad you might have a straight arrow send because he's the best of the best, and a half insane bezerker sent to get him out of the way.

I like that line about 100s of chapter have sworn their oaths, which means anywhere from 1 to 800 chapters have not. maybe they were never asked, maybe they never could, maybe they refuse. Lots of potential stories there too.

That sounds more interesting.

And maybe also batering and imperial politics.
In a time of need a chapter may offer 10 marines. In exchange for a oath for death watch to come to there aid in the future.
Maybe return of a relic taken to deathwatch and the marine fell in battle.

All manner of internal and little micro events in the wider vaster universe.

It amuses me that one of the most common answers on this forum is something along the lines of "We just don't know enough about the internal politics of superman brainwashed psychopaths who owe allegiance to nothing but a pathetic corpse emperor (sorry, the IW in me leaked out there)".

Having said that, it is commonly the correct answer, including in this case. Every chapter master will have different opinions, which may also be affected by his chapters previous senders to the deathwatch, how they were treated, any perceived favouritism etc.

jareddm wrote:
Here's the quote from the codex,

"Hundreds of chapters have taken the sacred oath to thie their warriors to the Deathwatch in times of need, and only one of them has been found wanting, its honour forever tarnished."

That's all there is.

This quote has a lot there for so few words. To me I dial in on times of need. That implies to me that many chapters might go centuries of sending recruits or may not do so unless begged, that one chapter in the hour of need said No. That sounds like a great premise for a black library novel.

Could it be the blood angels, with the red thirst and all? I thought the Deathwatch was a voluntary thing

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Could it be the blood angels, with the red thirst and all? I thought the Deathwatch was a voluntary thing

The idea of swearing oaths implies that yes it's up to chapters whether or not they sign up, and not mandated by the Emperor (remember Chapters answer directly to him, not to the high lords).

Of course once an oath is sworn (probably accompanied by a mile long scroll detailing what it means) the chapter is obliged to live by its terms. But there's probably lots of wiggle room with terms like 'hour of need' or 'to the best of their ability' which Space Marine lawyers can point to.

Now that would be a fun novel, a room full of chapter serf and Inquisition lawyers arguing whether or not the genestealer cult really, really counts as an 'hour of need' worthy of sending the chapters bottom 10-ranked battle brothers or not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mudrat wrote:
It amuses me that one of the most common answers on this forum is something along the lines of "We just don't know enough about the internal politics of superman brainwashed psychopaths who owe allegiance to nothing but a pathetic corpse emperor (sorry, the IW in me leaked out there)".

I think it's more "the culture and policy of 1000 warrior brotherhoods over the course of 10,000 years composed of brainwashed psychopathic supermen who worship an immortal psychic hooked up to a planet-sized life support system vary too much to make sweeping statements".

But yes.

And that's one reason I really like the 40k universe.

Mudrat wrote:
It amuses me that one of the most common answers on this forum is something along the lines of "We just don't know enough about the internal politics of superman brainwashed psychopaths who owe allegiance to nothing but a pathetic corpse emperor (sorry, the IW in me leaked out there)".

I think it's more "the culture and policy of 1000 warrior brotherhoods over the course of 10,000 years composed of brainwashed psychopathic supermen who worship an immortal psychic hooked up to a planet-sized life support system vary too much to make sweeping statements".

But yes.

And that's one reason I really like the 40k universe.

Now I need to find an even more over-complicated way to say this.

jareddm wrote:
Here's the quote from the codex,

"Hundreds of chapters have taken the sacred oath to thie their warriors to the Deathwatch in times of need, and only one of them has been found wanting, its honour forever tarnished."

That's all there is.

For some reason that quote makes me think the Marines sent were found wanting...

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
A good definitely answer is my old standby 'it depends'.

Chapter Masters answer only the Emperor so we imagine they have a lot of personal say in how a chapter is run. Chapter Master Adam might love the Deathwatch and send his best and brightest, a century later Master Barl thinks it's a waste and refuses to even speak to their envoys, two centuries after that Master Cirol sends a few nar'do'wells to get rid of them, and a a century after him Master Damnus says he'd love to send troops, but only after this anti-Ork Crusade is done.

It's the sort of answer which opens lots of possibilities. Within a DW squad you might have a straight arrow send because he's the best of the best, and a half insane bezerker sent to get him out of the way.

I like that line about 100s of chapter have sworn their oaths, which means anywhere from 1 to 800 chapters have not. maybe they were never asked, maybe they never could, maybe they refuse. Lots of potential stories there too.

I like this as a generic answer to the question, but I think it falls short a little. There may be a lot more than the unnamed one Chapter that would not send their Astartes to serve as part of the Deathwatch irrespective of factors such as differing Chapter Masters or their current circumstances that would otherwise affect the decision on this point for another Chapters.

My answer to the original question would be a combination of the above quote and the following:

There would be a few, but the number of Chapters that would refuse to send their Astartes into the service of the Deathwatch as a blanket rule would be very limited indeed and - to my knowledge - there are none that are named.

I'd say its the Lamenters chapter. Yes, the whole chapter.

IIRC the whole chapter was wiped out except for one marine, who is now a Deathwatch dreadnought that no one likes and they can't get rid of as he has no chapter to be sent back to.

That said, there is room for lots of different ways to interpret this line. The fuzzy edges are the best thing about 40k. It allows interpretation and creativity.

nareik wrote:
I'd say its the Lamenters chapter. Yes, the whole chapter.

IIRC the whole chapter was wiped out except for one marine, who is now a Deathwatch dreadnought that no one likes and they can't get rid of as he has no chapter to be sent back to.

The Lamenters have not been wiped out. As of IA2: 2nd ed., the Lamenters came out of their engagement with Hivefleet Kraken with a little under 300 marines, though a marine in the Deathwatch wouldn't know this.