Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Spending a lot of time on my battlescribe trying to plan out an 1850 pt army that is fluffy and will have a good chance of winning. I don't like Heldrakes so please don't suggest them (Yes I know I'm a fool ) Otherwise all feedback is welcome so thank you in advance!

Force: Night Lords

Murder Talon

Warband: 1105pts

Chaos lord: Warlord,Vox Daemonicus, Bike, Votlw, Power axe, Sigil: 155pts

Sorcerer: Aml x 2, Bike,Votlw,Force Sword.Sigil,Spell Familiar : 170pts

Chosen x 5: 4 x plasma Gun,votlw,Rhino: 185pts

Chaos bikers x 5: votlw,metla gun x 2: 130pts

Chaos bikers x 5: votlw,metla gun x 2: 130pts

Chaos Bikers x 3: votlw, Melta x 2: 90pts

Havocs x 5: votlw,lascannon x 2,rhino: 150pts

Csm x 5: votlw plasma gun,melta bombs: 95pts

Csm x 5: votlw plasma gun melta bombs: 95pts


Raptor Talon

Chaos Lord: Scourging chains,votlw, Jump pack, votlw,powersword: 115pts

WArp Talons x 5 :votlwr :160pts

Raptors x 5: votlw, melta x 2: 115pts

Raptors x 5: votlw, melta x 2: 115pts

Raptors x 5: votlw, melta x 2: 115pts


Aux:

chaos spawn x 1: 30pts

Comes in at exactly 1850 (which is always nice) What do you think?

Coming in exactly is great

There's a lot of footsloggers there. The chosen in particular look horrifically vulnerable.

I would probably cut the spawn and get a few rhinos

It's very satisfying haha

There is indeed I figured the army wide stealth would help reduce the terribleness of that though? Maybe? I was going to use the spawn as meat shields for the bikes. stealth 3 wounds is pretty handy I reckon!

Hmm I guess spawn get the stealth from night fight and the +1 detachment bonus on the first turn, which is pretty good, but one turn only.
(They don't get the army wide permastealth as they aren't VOTLW.)
The bikes don't really need the meatshield as they can jink for a 2+ anyway. although no jinking is better true.

Oh Sh*t son that's right! Turn one is not really the best....hmmm The las cannons firing from a Rhino would be better! As opposed to camping them in cover.

So I made some changes based on some feedback.

Warlord is now the biker lord of the warband as apposed to the jump lord in the raptor talon.

Added melta bombs to the csm squads in case they get close to an enemy tank

Gave sorcerer Spell Familiar

gave chosen Rhino (not sure if I should take one of their plasma guns away to give the rhino a dirge caster??

To pay for all this I subtracted to spawn.

You need reserve manipulation. you can try to pull in either the helldrake formation or a helldrake wing.
Also the chosen without a dreadclaw drop pod is kind of bad. I'd prefer to take termicites and deep strike them instead of chosen with a rhino.

What rules in the helldrake formation or helldrake wing contribute to reserve manipulation? The vox daemonicus takes one from their reserve roll.

100 points in an 1850 game for a transport just seems a little expensive to me, I can't imagine the chosen becoming target priority with bikes and raptors closing in,

Thanks for the feed back though I'd like to hear more!

Dardl wrote:
What rules in the helldrake formation or helldrake wing contribute to reserve manipulation? The vox daemonicus takes one from their reserve roll.

100 points in an 1850 game for a transport just seems a little expensive to me, I can't imagine the chosen becoming target priority with bikes and raptors closing in,

Thanks for the feed back though I'd like to hear more!

Doesn't the vox dominus affect enemy reserve rolls, not your own?

Can I just inquire into the reasoning behind equipping your raptor lord as you have? It just seems like you're going for utility across the board but to me, while it would work, it feels like you could get more for the same price out of him using a different load out of equipment.

The helldrakes are flyers if enemy does not have flyers you get plus 1 to reserve rolls. In air superiority detachment plus one more. Dreadclaw is amazing objective secured fast skimmer that comes down turn 1.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

Dardl wrote:
What rules in the helldrake formation or helldrake wing contribute to reserve manipulation? The vox daemonicus takes one from their reserve roll.

100 points in an 1850 game for a transport just seems a little expensive to me, I can't imagine the chosen becoming target priority with bikes and raptors closing in,

Thanks for the feed back though I'd like to hear more!

Doesn't the vox dominus affect enemy reserve rolls, not your own?

Is that not what I said bro? Regardless that's what I meant


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tristanleo wrote:
Can I just inquire into the reasoning behind equipping your raptor lord as you have? It just seems like you're going for utility across the board but to me, while it would work, it feels like you could get more for the same price out of him using a different load out of equipment.

Well, I once played a slaanesh lord with twin LC and he got locked in combat with the avatar of khaine. He was stuck in combat and couldn't hurt it with his claws making him useless so ever since then I always like to have my lords able to hurt anything!

Regardless I would love to hear your loadout idea!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 fearzffs wrote:
The helldrakes are flyers if enemy does not have flyers you get plus 1 to reserve rolls. In air superiority detachment plus one more. Dreadclaw is amazing objective secured fast skimmer that comes down turn 1.

As I stated in the opening line I don't like helldrakes. They don't work well with my play style. I never get the points back for them. For the price of that drop claw I really feel I could do better!

Dardl wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tristanleo wrote:
Can I just inquire into the reasoning behind equipping your raptor lord as you have? It just seems like you're going for utility across the board but to me, while it would work, it feels like you could get more for the same price out of him using a different load out of equipment.

Well, I once played a slaanesh lord with twin LC and he got locked in combat with the avatar of khaine. He was stuck in combat and couldn't hurt it with his claws making him useless so ever since then I always like to have my lords able to hurt anything!

Regardless I would love to hear your loadout idea!

Yeah I get that reasoning, but it still seems kind of moot. The things you are going to be wanting to punch to death with the power fist (a la Khaine) are going to want to do the same to you first and probably have the clout to do so before you get a chance. I can't really get behind taking the lightning claw as it dampens overall attacks and, as you have done, forced you to take another expensive specialist weapon just to benefit if you do want those attacks.

Curze's orb is the stickler here for me personally (If I remember it correctly), while I can see the utility of it, it sticks out like a sore thumb. in the formation you are running, the raptor lord likely won't be running and you can reroll the charge distance with the murder talon benefit anyway so getting into combat isn't the problem. Shred is better than rerolling 1's to wound which you have from the lightning claws or taking the scourging chains for half the cost so you are in effect paying a lot for worse rerolls.

My type of raptor lord would be to drop Curze's orb, the power fist and the lightning claw, take a standard power weapon that works best on what you plan to fight and take the scourging chains so now all your melee attacks have shred. This costs 25pts when before you were spending about 60pts and means you can potentially take a plasma pistol for a shot before charging and melta charges for tank hunting if need be. otherwise you now have 35pts spare for another rhino to add more push against your opponents lines and draw attention of those big nasties that might otherwise try to tie up the lord.

Tristanleo wrote:

Dardl wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tristanleo wrote:
Can I just inquire into the reasoning behind equipping your raptor lord as you have? It just seems like you're going for utility across the board but to me, while it would work, it feels like you could get more for the same price out of him using a different load out of equipment.

Well, I once played a slaanesh lord with twin LC and he got locked in combat with the avatar of khaine. He was stuck in combat and couldn't hurt it with his claws making him useless so ever since then I always like to have my lords able to hurt anything!

Regardless I would love to hear your loadout idea!

Yeah I get that reasoning, but it still seems kind of moot. The things you are going to be wanting to punch to death with the power fist (a la Khaine) are going to want to do the same to you first and probably have the clout to do so before you get a chance. I can't really get behind taking the lightning claw as it dampens overall attacks and, as you have done, forced you to take another expensive specialist weapon just to benefit if you do want those attacks.

Curze's orb is the stickler here for me personally (If I remember it correctly), while I can see the utility of it, it sticks out like a sore thumb. in the formation you are running, the raptor lord likely won't be running and you can reroll the charge distance with the murder talon benefit anyway so getting into combat isn't the problem. Shred is better than rerolling 1's to wound which you have from the lightning claws or taking the scourging chains for half the cost so you are in effect paying a lot for worse rerolls.

My type of raptor lord would be to drop Curze's orb, the power fist and the lightning claw, take a standard power weapon that works best on what you plan to fight and take the scourging chains so now all your melee attacks have shred. This costs 25pts when before you were spending about 60pts and means you can potentially take a plasma pistol for a shot before charging and melta charges for tank hunting if need be. otherwise you now have 35pts spare for another rhino to add more push against your opponents lines and draw attention of those big nasties that might otherwise try to tie up the lord.

You make serious sense. I will take your advice and give him a power sword. I don't have enough faith in him to make him solo an unwieldy weapon.

What's you opinion the chosen?

I find them to be kind of a marmite unit, you either love them or you hate them. You' re effectively paying an extra 3 points over a standard marine with ccw for +1 leadership and the ability to take more special weapons in a squad which is actually not that bad. Whether they are better entirely depends on the army you are facing as they also become priority targets because they can cripple expensive units with minimal effort and your opponent will always look to stop that.
Thanks to night Lord bonuses, if you take them, always look for a decent piece of cover to hunker down in, that +2 to cover first turn really helps blunt the fire you take.

Wasn't there a lightningclawz artifact for raptor lord? Or is it bad option?

Tristanleo wrote:
I find them to be kind of a marmite unit, you either love them or you hate them. You' re effectively paying an extra 3 points over a standard marine with ccw for +1 leadership and the ability to take more special weapons in a squad which is actually not that bad. Whether they are better entirely depends on the army you are facing as they also become priority targets because they can cripple expensive units with minimal effort and your opponent will always look to stop that.
Thanks to night Lord bonuses, if you take them, always look for a decent piece of cover to hunker down in, that +2 to cover first turn really helps blunt the fire you take.

Yeah I think I will hang onto them. Terminators aren't very night lord anyway! Thanks for all the help man!

Any more suggestions?

I have began building this list, any last minute advice from anyone?