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I'm doing a little research up on the Emperor/Imperator Class Titans, because my brother and I had the idea that it would be awesome to run a battle that takes place on the top of a Titan, in the little Cathedral/Monastery that is up there. When you read the fluff, it all seems like that is possible, with the Titans being awe-inspiringly big, with weaponry that would demolish cities in a blink of an eye.
Even in the DOW: Winter Assault game, the Titan Weapon is a monsterous thing, that is taken from an Imperator Titan. This thing dwarfs even Baneblades, making them look like toys.

Yet, according to all sources, it is only around 55m tall. I work in a hotel that is 102m tall, a 30 story hotel. I just went up and looked out from the 15th floor. It's not that big. Big in terms of us, yes, but not in terms of city smashing mega robots. That feels like Warhound territory, not Emperor class!

Emperor class titans feel like they should be the size of the Burj Khalifa, the way they are described! They don't even carry close combat weapons because they just stomp things when they get too close. Something that is only the size of a small building doesn't match the gravitas that comes from the Imperator's description.

Something to bear in mind is that the Imperator Titan in the Epic / Titan Legions games is to a different scale to the other models. Most models were about 1/350, whilst the Imperator was closer to 1/700 - take an epic space marine and compare it to the size of an Imperator's head, for example. This can lead to varying accounts of it's size by different writers - anything from 43 meters to 140 meters.

 Quanar wrote:
Something to bear in mind is that the Imperator Titan in the Epic / Titan Legions games is to a different scale to the other models. Most models were about 1/350, whilst the Imperator was closer to 1/700 - take an epic space marine and compare it to the size of an Imperator's head, for example. This can lead to varying accounts of it's size by different writers - anything from 43 meters to 140 meters.

140m feels right. It's gigantic, huge. Something that is that tall, and most likely half as much wide would strike the fear into the hearts of the Imperium's enemies.

But all the 'official' sources seem to put it at 55m, which seems like it would illicite a "meh" response from any half decent enemy.

Also, not counting the spires. I'm thinking like 100m tall, then the spires on top. The physical warmachine deserves to be that tall, just to even get close to meeting the hype

I wouldn't say they are big enough to have a battle on top of, in space marine (the game) there is a part where you 'ride' on top of an emperor class titan and I would say there is just about enough room for a 1v1 space marine vs chaos space marine on the front parapit. Taking into account it's cathedral, if you had some way of entering and fighting inside them, you would have enough room for maybe a 10v10 fight.

Although sources can vary massively on their size, in some art work and stories they are depicted as the size of mountains and in others they are still smaller than imperial buildings.

It may not be in the video games, bu it honestly feels like the fluff deserves a bigger Titan.

In one of the Horus Heresy books, I can't remember which one, the World Eaters actually siege a Titan, gaining access through the legs and working their way up. Something that is only 55m tall doesn't seem like it would take that much effort to be honest, not when Space Marines can destroy bigger things in their sleep.

Ork Gargents are descibed as being immense skyscraper size, which would dwarf the Emperor. That doesn't seem right to me

 TheoreticalFish wrote:

Ork Gargents are descibed as being immense skyscraper size, which would dwarf the Emperor. That doesn't seem right to me

It seems even less right when some of the earliest art shows an emperor titan and a gargant battling and the titan is depicted as being bigger than the gargant.

if you wanted an imperator in a 40K normal game, it would be easier for you to design an Imperator costume and wear it for close to true scale.

 mrhappyface wrote:
It seems even less right when some of the earliest art shows an emperor titan and a gargant battling and the titan is depicted as being bigger than the gargant.

Just realised I was reading 1d4chan for the "Skyscraper" comparison, so lets just ignore that part...

But my point still stands. 55m~ does not seem nearly big enough for something like an Emperor Titan. 150m~ seems more like it, but that number isn't described anywhere. All I can see from Lexicanum and Warhammer Wiki is the 55m mark. or less, like for the Dies Irae, which is described as 44m.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asterios wrote:
if you wanted an imperator in a 40K normal game, it would be easier for you to design an Imperator costume and wear it for close to true scale.

Well, yeah. Using one in a real game would be ridiculous, the point cost would be more than the Tau Manta. Which is why a game Board could be interesting. Not for tanks or anything, probably Kill Team or small 750 point battles.

If you go off 140m tall, then then shrunk down with the same scale as normal Marines the shoulders/top cathedral would be roughly 4'x2'. Perfect size for a small scale battle

 TheoreticalFish wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
It seems even less right when some of the earliest art shows an emperor titan and a gargant battling and the titan is depicted as being bigger than the gargant.

Just realised I was reading 1d4chan for the "Skyscraper" comparison, so lets just ignore that part...

But my point still stands. 55m~ does not seem nearly big enough for something like an Emperor Titan. 150m~ seems more like it, but that number isn't described anywhere. All I can see from Lexicanum and Warhammer Wiki is the 55m mark. or less, like for the Dies Irae, which is described as 44m.

It isn't just 1d4chan that describes the Garagant as Skyscraper size, I believe it is also described that way in an Ork codex (or supplement). Honestly, the titan being made 55m stinks of GW giving it a random size to just answer the constant question of size rather than a thought out size reflecting it's stature in the fluff.

For all intents and purposes, I'm most likely just going to assume they thought 55m was bigger, and go with the 140m size. Hell, its unlikely they will ever make an Imperator Model. Going off Heroic sizing the Imperator would be roughly 6ft 6inches. Which is a hellova lot of plastic

If you go back and look at the origins of the artwork around the Imperator Titan you can do some math.


In this image (taken from the Epic box art complete piece, seen below) you see the Tech Guard (there used to be dedicated Imperial Guard/Adeptus Mechanicus troops called Tech Guard who rode inside Titans and were the infantry support/defense against boarding actions etc.) pouring out of one of the legs. The top area with the shrine looking stuff could be maybe football field sized (so big enough for a decent skirmish --- more so if you add some elevation). Not a city, perhaps, but reasonable.


The original Epic box art shows the Imperator and the Greater Gargant (larger, but shorter/squatter). Note the Baneblade-esque tank by its foot...for scale.

Art following this original Epic/Titan Legions stuff is incredibly inconsistent. Particularly when titans are shown in the background of box cover art or codices (where Warlord Titans appear to be 500 feet tall, etc.) You won't find much consistency.

In this later art, the Warlord (now the largest model they'd produce) appears to be as big if not bigger.


I think it's safe to say that a full scale Imperator based on the old artwork would be perhaps 10-12' tall (some of that being the tall spires), and far too big to really use in a 40K game. I think you could fight an interesting battle atop one (easily a 4'x4' area, maybe more with vertical space added.

I think one reason "official" stuff is probably listing it around 55 meters or whatever is that they may consider trying to build one (or they want future Adeptus Titanicus models to be scaled down etc.). Keep in mind that even the old Imperator plastic model was a bit out of scale compared with the art work.

Umm the scratch built are 3-4 feet tall by most apoc designs.

There not exactly small...

 mrhappyface wrote:
I wouldn't say they are big enough to have a battle on top of, in space marine (the game) there is a part where you 'ride' on top of an emperor class titan and I would say there is just about enough room for a 1v1 space marine vs chaos space marine on the front parapit. Taking into account it's cathedral, if you had some way of entering and fighting inside them, you would have enough room for maybe a 10v10 fight.

Although sources can vary massively on their size, in some art work and stories they are depicted as the size of mountains and in others they are still smaller than imperial buildings.

That was a lucius pattern warlord. Honestly I like it better than the mars pattern they make.
Still we probably won't get more details on it until they finally release a model for the emperor class... which would be a nightmare really in terms of size, money and transportation.

Based on the heights if the Warhound, Reaver, and Warlord Titans, an Imperator Titan would stand 36" from table to carapace, and up to 12" more for the carapace weapons/cathedral.

SJ

 Elbows wrote:


In this later art, the Warlord (now the largest model they'd produce) appears to be as big if not bigger.

See, that is what I think a Titan should look like. A literal god of War, like they are described in many many books. Makes me wish Games Workshop would wise up and give some consistency to the sizes, and fluff in general

48 inch high "miniature"

We are looking slightly a oxymoron when the small model is the size of a child!

Be epic though!

In the old fluff on the Imperator Titans, I remember something about not being able to put more than 3 or 4 on a planet at any given time, as their size and weight could crack the planet. Then there is the transposrt capacity, each leg was a citadel that could hold 100 troops in it. Then there is the Top Citadel, that area alone mounts 6 weapons from the following list.

Apocalypse Missile Launcher
Gatling Blaster
Inferno Gun
Laser Blaster
Melta Cannon
Plasma Destructor
Quake Cannon
Volcano Cannon
Vortex Support Missile
Vulcan Mega Bolter

So that may help some with scaling the upper area if you are looking to build that, from there you should be able to also get a better idea of its size. You also have this image taken from the old 40 Apocalypse book,

Yep, the scaling I mentioned is from that picture.

SJ

 Elbows wrote:

Based on this picture, if the guys coming out of the legs are roughly 2 metres tall, then up to the hip alone is probably about 50 metres, maybe more.

In Honour to the Dead, imperators are described as firing shells the size of super heavy tanks. Looking forward to seeing the FW one when it finally comes out.

Based on the scale and size comparison used by Forge World for their Titan models, I consider this chart to be closest to being "accurate" (for what that's worth in 40k):

Yep, which place the Imperitor between 36"-48" at current 40k scale. The Warlord standing next to it is 32" tall.

SJ

problem with those scales is my knights stand taller then 6"

Asterios wrote:
problem with those scales is my knights stand taller then 6"

Which ones? The "hunchback" Knight models (without the carapace weapons pod option mounted) or the tall/lanky Cerastus type models?


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-aab5ulHW0Hk/U0QAUHv3rlI/AAAAAAAACiE/hxEkrAly2kI/s1600/Lancer+scale.JPG



The last time I checked, the iconic "hunchback" style knights averaged between 6 and 7 inches, depending on base, pose, etc.


However, regardless of the correctness of the Knight's scale, the Titans' scale in that image is pretty spot on.