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My primary issue with the Black Legion recursion is the core choice is pretty weak compared to the others. It doesn't take advantage of the deep strike or reserve benefits. My other concerns is that the units are pretty small and susceptible to mass fire a la Tau or Jet bike spam.

+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 7th Edition v2015) (1500pts) +++

++ CSM Black Legion Speartip (Chaos Space Marines: Codex (2012) v2010) (1500pts) ++
Rules: Crusader, Fear, Heralds of the Black Crusade, Speartip Strike, Tip of the Spear

+ Uncategorised +

········Force Options (Supplement options here) [Black Legion]
········Rules: Black Legion, Endless Hatred, First Amongst Traitors

+ Core () +

········The Hounds of Abaddon ()
········Rules: Black Legion, Khorne's Favor, Let Slip the Hounds, The Hounds of Abaddon
············Chaos Bikers () [Mark of Khorne, 2x Meltagun (), Veterans of the Long War]
············Rules: Counter-attack, Rage, Veterans of the Long War
················4x Chaos Biker () [4x Bolt Pistol, 4x Close Combat Weapon, 4x Combi-bolter on Bike, 4x Frag and Krak Grenades]
················Chaos Biker Champion () [Bolt Pistol, Combi-bolter on Bike, Frag and Krak Grenades, Power Axe ()]
················Rules: Champion of Chaos
············Chaos Lord () [Axe of Blind Fury (), Bolt Pistol, Mark of Khorne, Sigil of corruption (), Veterans of the Long War]
············Rules: Blinded, Champion of Chaos, Counter-attack, Daemon Weapon, Fearless, Independent Character, Rage, Veterans of the Long War
················Bike () [Combi-bolter on Bike]
················Power Armour [Frag and Krak Grenades]
············Chaos Space Marines () [Mark of Khorne, Veterans of the Long War]
············Rules: Counter-attack, Rage, Veterans of the Long War
················Aspiring Champion () [Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak Grenades, Melta Bombs (5pts), Power Axe (15pts)]
················Rules: Champion of Chaos
················4x Chaos Marine with Boltgun () [4x Bolt Pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag and Krak Grenades]
················Chaos Rhino () [Combi-bolter, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers]
················4x Swap Boltgun with CCW [4x Close Combat Weapon]
············Khorne Berzerkers () [Mark of Khorne, Veterans of the Long War]
············Rules: Counter-attack, Fearless, Furious Charge, Rage, Veterans of the Long War
················Berzerker Champion () [Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak Grenades, Power Axe (15pts)]
················Rules: Champion of Chaos
················4x Berzerkers () [4x Bolt Pistol, 4x Close Combat Weapon, 4x Frag and Krak Grenades]
················Chaos Rhino () [Combi-bolter, Searchlight, Smoke
+ Command () +

········Cyclopia Cabal ()
········Rules: Black Legion, Shroud of Deceit
············Sorcerer () [2x Additional Mastery Level (), Force Stave, Spell familiar (), Veterans of the Long War]
············Rules: Champion of Chaos, Independent Character, Psyker, Veterans of the Long War
················Bike () [Combi-bolter on Bike]
················Power Armour [Frag and Krak Grenades]
············Sorcerer () [2x Additional Mastery Level (), Bolt Pistol, Force Stave, Spell familiar (), Veterans of the Long War]
············Rules: Champion of Chaos, Independent Character, Psyker, Veterans of the Long War
················Bike () [Combi-bolter on Bike]
················Power Armour [Frag and Krak Grenades]
············Sorcerer (140pts) [2x Additional Mastery Level (), Bolt Pistol, Force Stave, Jump Pack (), Spell familiar (), Veterans of the Long War]
+ Auxiliary () +

········Raptor Talon ()
········Rules: Cacophonic War Cries, Predatory Warriors
············Chaos Lord () [Jump Pack, Lightning Claw (15pts), Power Fist (25pts), Veterans of the Long War, Warlord]
············Rules: Champion of Chaos, Fearless, Independent Character, Veterans of the Long War
················Power Armour [Frag and Krak Grenades]
············Raptors () [2x Meltagun (), Veterans of the Long War]
············Rules: Fear, Veterans of the Long War
················4x Raptor () [4x Bolt Pistol, 4x Close Combat Weapon, 4x Frag and Krak Grenades]
················Raptor Champion () [Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak Grenades, Power Maul (15pts)]
················Rules: Champion of Chaos
············Raptors () [2x Meltagun (), Veterans of the Long War]
············Rules: Fear, Veterans of the Long War
················4x Raptor () [4x Bolt Pistol, 4x Close Combat Weapon, 4x Frag and Krak Grenades]
················Raptor Champion () [Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak Grenades, Power Maul (15pts)]
················Rules: Champion of Chaos
············Raptors () [2x Meltagun (), Veterans of the Long War]
············Rules: Fear, Veterans of the Long War
················4x Raptor 4x Bolt Pistol, 4x Close Combat Weapon, 4x Frag and Krak Grenades]
················Raptor Champion Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak Grenades, Power Maul (15pts)]
················



Automatically Appended Next Post:
My goal is to use the guaranteed first turn deep strike with warlord and sorcerer to shroud, shoot, then charge my opponent's biggest threat while the bike lord and other sorcerers pincer. The Hounds of abandon come up the center to push objectives since even if they run and charge they hit like a wet noodle.

Some thoughts.

1) Hounds of Abaddon - love them. What about Icon of Wrath on the CSMs and Berzerkers to reroll charge rolls? This way, you get a better chance to get that +1 S.

2) Cyclopeia Cabal - Why does one have a jump pack and the others are on bikes?

3) Cyclopeia Cabal - Would be more interesting if they were in Terminator armor and using Shroud of Deceipt in the first turn.

 techsoldaten wrote:
2) Cyclopeia Cabal - Why does one have a jump pack and the others are on bikes?

To take advantage of the Fleet from the jump pack's six inch movement. You stretch the unit out with most models going 12 inches, meanwhile the jump pack moves six and just barely stays with the unit, BAM, you have a re-roll to charge because he didn't use his jumppack.

Yes that's legal and how the deathstar works.

That a been changed in the latest faq. Only the jump packer gets the reroll, and is unlikely to get closer if only moving 6". Still possibly worth it to save 5pts at a push.

What are everyone's thoughts on changing the bikers to raptors? I am a fan of bikers but this would allow them to group up with the raptor talon. This would give me another deep strike unit for the spear tip rule.

The jump pack for the one sorcerer was so he could group up with the warlord for a guaranteed turn 1 deep strike for deceit.

So ideally first turn would go deep strike, psychic phase deceit a unit, shoot phase melta's away, then charge.

This also gives me a nice beta strike with a nul deployment if needed.

Hey CDShaddock,

I've been trying to come up with a decent Speartip list as wel. My best try to date is something like this:

Hounds of Abaddon
95 Lord, Jump pack, Power Maul
110 5 Khorne Berzekers, Champion: Meltabombs
85 5 CSM, Meltagun
95 3 Bikers, 2 Meltagun

Chosen of Abaddon
145 Sorcerer, ML2, Last Memory, Jump Pack, Spell Familiar
110 3 Terminators, 3 Combi-Melta (1st turn DS)
125 Sorcerer, ML3, Jump Pack
110 3 Terminators, 3 Combi-Plasma (1st turn DS)

Cult of Destruction
110 Warpsmith (with Berzekers or Spawn)
228 3 Obliterators, Mark of Nurgle (1st turn DS with Lord)
55 Mutilator (1st turn DS)
55 Mutilator (1st turn DS)

Spawn
180 5 Spawn, Mark of Nurgle

1498 points, 6 ML, 5 possible 1st turn DS-units with Spawn and Bikers supporting. Possible 1st turn Last Memory.

The trick is - IMO - to get as much units as possible to benefit from the first turn deep strike option. Your list has three (Raptor) units that benefit, with some character support. In my experience that means that 2/3 units will show up first turn. I'm afraid that it doensn't make for a first turn strike that has enough impact to last you untill the Hounds of Abaddon will come in to support. I think that in 1500 points the Cabal is to expensive. It is great to strengthen and support other existing units, but not enough to cary a game by its self. In 1500 points you struggle to come up with units worth supporting with 350+ points of Sorcerers.

To keep your Raptor theme I'd suggest a mix between out lists where you'd replace the Cult of Destruction by your Raptor Talon. Pointswise it will fit more or less.

Could luck, let us know how you fare.

Cilithan

CDShaddock wrote:
What are everyone's thoughts on changing the bikers to raptors? I am a fan of bikers but this would allow them to group up with the raptor talon. This would give me another deep strike unit for the spear tip rule.

The jump pack for the one sorcerer was so he could group up with the warlord for a guaranteed turn 1 deep strike for deceit.

So ideally first turn would go deep strike, psychic phase deceit a unit, shoot phase melta's away, then charge.

This also gives me a nice beta strike with a nul deployment if needed.

Yes, change them to Raptors, the ability to assault on DS is important for Speartips. With regards to the Sorceror, it may be more useful to give him terminator armor to improve survivability.

I don't really hate jump packs, it's just that I like psykers surviving more than 1 round.

Inwas thinking of neating the three sorcerers with jump packs in the groups of raptors for oblative wounds. If the sorcerors seem like overkill in 1500 then perhaps putting in a terminator annihilation force with meltas for more deep strike spam. The hounds of abaddon is more of tax and doesnt really offer much to the force.