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Hey all,

I'm wondering if a lot of the Empire lists have been missing an opportunity with Vessery in the Defender with the D title.

Don't get me wrong, the x7 is a powerful (and very survivable) choice... but I think I'm finding that Vessery (D, Tractor) is a pretty potent ship. And with Palpatine he becomes almost as survivable as an x7. And I'm thinking that there are combinations to take advantage of this that haven't been seen much.

For example:

100 points
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Colonel Jendon (37)
Lambda-Class Shuttle (26), Emperor Palpatine (8), ST-321 (3)

“Omega Leader” (26)
TIE/fo Fighter (21), Comm Relay (3), Juke (2)

Colonel Vessery (37)
TIE Defender (35), Tractor beam (1), Veteran Instincts (1), TIE/D (0)

-----
There's almost always 1 ship that Omega Leader will want to have a TL on for defense, and with this setup he can get it early and have focus and evade for defense.

Against Dengaroo, for example, Jendon gets a TL on Dengar, passes it to Omega Leader, then grabs another so Vessery can definitely get one on an alpha strike even if there's countermeasures

I suspect that there are other combinations that work well ...

What do you think?

It works.

My favorite alternative list is this

TIE Defender: Onyx Squadron Pilot (34)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/D (0)
Tractor Beam (1)

TIE Defender: Onyx Squadron Pilot (34)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/D (0)
Tractor Beam (1)

Lambda-Class Shuttle: Omicron Group Pilot (32)
Ion Projector (2)
Collision detector (0)
Tractor Beam (1)
•Emperor Palpatine (8)

Total: 100/100

Maybe but I wouldn't bother with Jendon as whilst there is some merit to the title / Vessery combo his ability is too short range and you'd end up putting the Shuttle in danger, I'd drop to a normal shuttle

I don't see Jendon as a problem... his purpose is to give Omega Leader a TL on Dengar/ Rey/whatever other big threat is out there on T1/2 so Omega can approach with TL/ evade and focus token (instead of being down a focus on the turn of the TL).

Then he stays at range taking TLs on whatever Vessery is going to shoot at and Palpatine does his thing.

Apostasus wrote:
I don't see Jendon as a problem... his purpose is to give Omega Leader a TL on Dengar/ Rey/whatever other big threat is out there on T1/2 so Omega can approach with TL/ evade and focus token (instead of being down a focus on the turn of the TL).

Then he stays at range taking TLs on whatever Vessery is going to shoot at and Palpatine does his thing.

Fair enough, it's most likely worth a go it's just I feel its a fair few points over a regular Palp-Wagon and I'm not sure the pay-off is worth the extra points, I think some tableplay over theory might be the best call on it

The main problem with TIE/D is that it's a high-variance option in a game that rewards removing the dice as much as possible. Some games you'll absolutely wreck your opponent by tractor beaming a ship onto a rock and annihilating it with the rest of your list, some games the extra points you spent over the x7 title and the lack of a free evade token will get your very expensive ship killed before it can accomplish much. The x7 option is cheaper (very relevant when you're starting at 30+ points for a ship) and removes a lot of dice variance by giving you a free evade token every turn, even when you lose your actions to stress/bumping/whatever. And the x7 title also has massive synergy with juke, since it's the only way to get an evade token on a defender.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Fair enough, it's most likely worth a go it's just I feel its a fair few points over a regular Palp-Wagon and I'm not sure the pay-off is worth the extra points, I think some tableplay over theory might be the best call on it

It's a bit of a response to my efforts with the standard Palp mobile (with Vessery/ D and Maarek x7) where I kinda want to have the TL from the shuttle as well. And the ps2 and range restrictions make the shuttle a less than ideal platform.

So if I make the choice to upgrade the shuttle with the title, I don't have the points for a second Defender. And my experience with Omega Leader is that he's especially vulnerable in the turn he takes the TL. So with Jendon and title i can guarantee that the shuttle impacts the game beyond just Palpatine.

I know 8 points is a lot, but it is kind of a wash because Omega Leader is so strong and there's not a lot of other places to put the points...

And yeah, some table top time is probably the only way to get a definite answer, but I (to use a 40k term) am a fluff player and it bugs me to use Palpatine with first order TIEs


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:
The main problem with TIE/D is that it's a high-variance option in a game that rewards removing the dice as much as possible. Some games you'll absolutely wreck your opponent by tractor beaming a ship onto a rock and annihilating it with the rest of your list, some games the extra points you spent over the x7 title and the lack of a free evade token will get your very expensive ship killed before it can accomplish much.

Yeah, there may be some confirmation bias here. The games I win tend to be epic (in my mind) but the ones I lose i blame the dice

The x7 option is cheaper (very relevant when you're starting at 30+ points for a ship) and removes a lot of dice variance by giving you a free evade token every turn, even when you lose your actions to stress/bumping/whatever. And the x7 title also has massive synergy with juke, since it's the only way to get an evade token on a defender.

I agree with everything you say here Hellbird, I just wonder if people are maybe not seeing the forest for the trees... missing some powerful options because of the obvious choice.

If I win the CT regionals, maybe I will take my crazy theories to nationals

Apostasus wrote:
I agree with everything you say here Hellbird, I just wonder if people are maybe not seeing the forest for the trees... missing some powerful options because of the obvious choice.

I don't think so. TIE/D Vessery has seen some use, and was actually the standard at first until the juke/crack x7 lists started showing up. Maybe there is a good list out there to be found and it isn't just a second-tier option, but I don't think it's been an overlooked thing that nobody is bothering to test.

TIE D Vessery was the first thing I tried when Imperial Veterans came out, along with a TIE D Maarek. The problem is it's a title that doesn't help with the Defenders biggest weakness - survivability vs point cost. If you want a D dead you can kill it with any decent list. The same is not so true of an x7.

Adding Palp really doesn't make a D just as survivable as an x7. Even if that was the case you could save points and take a more survivable x7. Those points are important when it comes to the other ships it allows you to buy (mainly more Defenders!)

Like Peregrine says, low-variance is the most effective winning strategy and x7 is pretty much the king of that at the moment, especially combined with Palp.