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Been wondering about the missing Primarchs, and realised each Primarch is an aspect of the Emperor/Has a role in the Emperors plans (depending on which theory you want the go for), Roboute the Empire Builder/Tactician, Russ the executioner, Magnus the Psyker for the Throne etc.
I was wondering what roles the Emperor envisioned for the two missing Primarchs.
We know that the Emperor was a genius when it came to Genetic Engineering, could one of the Primarchs have been intended to fill that role/be that aspect. Also, the Emperor must have had a pretty good grasp of tech, maybe one of them was meant to fill that role - a disagreement between the Primarch and the Mechanicum could have been part of why they were removed from imperial records.
Also, the Ultramarines seem to have two aspects to them - the tactical that you would expect from Roboute, but also other show a sensitive, humanitarian aspect to them. Could they have come from the other legion and it was something to do with the empathy of the other primarch that brought him into conflict with the Emperor.
Its suggested in one of the HH books that one or both were still loyal and could have been called upon to help. Is that how you guys understood it. To have been wiped out, the transgression must have been worse than the thousand sons flesh change, as the Emperor allowed Magnus to work on it.
The missing Primarchs, and by extension their legions, can have whatever traits you deem cool. That's the point of them: to be whatever the players wish.
Say you want a chapter that stayed loyal and has purple armour and x-ray vision. Or a traitor legion devoted to Chaos and has bat wings. Well go right ahead. GW wants the players to get involved with the narrative, so they leave certain "mysteries" open for interpretation. Have fun with it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/27 21:58:18
Conversely, some people seem to forget that this is a discussion forum. If we all just googled anything we were curious about, there would be no discussion.
Just because you've seen a particular topic before, doesn't mean it's not still a valid topic for discussion. If you're not interested in joining in because you're done it all before, that's fine... just close the thread and move on.
For the original question, it's hard to imagine what rolls they could have filled that weren't already covered by one of the others, although there is some amount of overlap in some cases. Having said that, the varying roles for each of the Legions were really only fleshed out when the Horus Heresy book series started up, and since they clearly had no intention of detailing the lost legions I doubt they considered the roles those legions would have filled when they were working it all out.
For roles that would have been interesting - a Legion adept at taking scavenged tech and turning it against its owners would have been fun (and wouldn't be too heretical since the Mechanicum didn't have their stranglehold on technology use at that point). Or supplementing Corax's genetic dabblings, a Legion that was devoted to flesh enhancement (in a 'make me more powerful' sort of way, as opposed to the later Emperor's Childrens' 'What happens if I put this here?' approach).
Although you could just as easily pick a warzone type, and add that - masters of jungle skirmishes, or aquatic assault, or void warfare.
I believe one of them meant to be the most cultured of all the Primarchs who appreciated the arts and absorbed what it is to be like those around him. To be the humanitarian anchor for the Primarchs who have the noted defect of generally being giant man children demi gods so far detached from humanity that they can't truly understand humanity. The only problem was this Primarch ended up on an Ork planet and took on Ork Kulture to the extreme.
"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise"
insaniak wrote: Just because you've seen a particular topic before, doesn't mean it's not still a valid topic for discussion. If you're not interested in joining in because you're done it all before, that's fine... just close the thread and move on.
Exactly, so many times I've Googled something only to find thread after thread of sourpusses telling the OP to Google it.
That said, neither the Emperor nor GW had any vision for the missing legions, they simply do not exist and have never existed. That's all there is to them.
Personally, in my own headcanon, I've always thought that one legion's primarch was killed early on in the Crusade and said legion's entire existence was quietly swept under the rug for face saving purposes while the other legion got a bit too friendly with xenos and was Monarchia'd for it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/16 09:05:39
Blackhair Duckshape wrote: Exactly, so many times I've Googled something only to find thread after thread of sourpusses telling the OP to Google it.
That said, neither the Emperor nor GW had any vision for the missing legions, they simply do not exist and have never existed. That's all there is to them.
Personally, in my own headcanon, I've always thought that one legion's primarch was killed early on in the Crusade and said legion's entire existence was quietly swept under the rug for face saving purposes while the other legion got a bit too friendly with xenos and was Monarchia'd for it.
I am pretty sure the Founding Legions were originally laid out in the 2nd edition rulebook, and it stated the missing legions were there to allow players to define their own chapters. There was no such thing as Chapter Tactics at the time, or any variances between Loyalist armies.
So this is not a topic GW has published a lot about. The only real references I have seen to them is in the Horus Heresy books, where it's implied the Space Wolves killed both legions.
techsoldaten wrote: I am pretty sure the Founding Legions were originally laid out in the 2nd edition rulebook, and it stated the missing legions were there to allow players to define their own chapters. There was no such thing as Chapter Tactics at the time, or any variances between Loyalist armies.
Pretty much. It's funny how nowadays making your homebrew chapter be descended from the 2nd/11th is pretty much the biggest heresy you can commit.
I am pretty sure the Founding Legions were originally laid out in the 2nd edition rulebook, and it stated the missing legions were there to allow players to define their own chapters. .
No GW rulebook has ever said this. And it wouldn't make any sense for them to say that... The 40K background already allows players to create a effectively unlimited number of Chapters without ever having to refer back to the lost Legions.
The idea that they were put in there for fans to develop is something that the fans came up with on their own.
I am pretty sure the Founding Legions were originally laid out in the 2nd edition rulebook, and it stated the missing legions were there to allow players to define their own chapters. .
No GW rulebook has ever said this. And it wouldn't make any sense for them to say that... The 40K background already allows players to create a effectively unlimited number of Chapters without ever having to refer back to the lost Legions.
The idea that they were put in there for fans to develop is something that the fans came up with on their own.
I am pretty sure the Founding Legions were originally laid out in the 2nd edition rulebook, and it stated the missing legions were there to allow players to define their own chapters. .
No GW rulebook has ever said this. And it wouldn't make any sense for them to say that... The 40K background already allows players to create a effectively unlimited number of Chapters without ever having to refer back to the lost Legions.
The idea that they were put in there for fans to develop is something that the fans came up with on their own.
Correct. The reason the missing legions exist is because the authors had originally written they there were 20 legions, but when it came time to publish, they realized they only had 18 descriptions written.
Blackhair Duckshape wrote:Pretty much. It's funny how nowadays making your homebrew chapter be descended from the 2nd/11th is pretty much the biggest heresy you can commit.
For the vast majority of cases where the missing legions are used for a chapter, it has indicated a need to be different just for the sake of being different. It offers nothing more than saying the geneseed was unknown, while opening up numerous plot holes.
That said, fleshing out the legions themselves rather then a successor chapter is a whole different ball game. The recent detailing of the Great Crusade provided by FW has opened up the perfect period for people to experiment with who the missing legions and their primarchs were, in a time period where it makes sense for them to exist. There's a whole project on the subject dedicated to people's ideas on B&C.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/16 23:35:44
I am pretty sure the Founding Legions were originally laid out in the 2nd edition rulebook, and it stated the missing legions were there to allow players to define their own chapters. .
No GW rulebook has ever said this. And it wouldn't make any sense for them to say that... The 40K background already allows players to create a effectively unlimited number of Chapters without ever having to refer back to the lost Legions.
The idea that they were put in there for fans to develop is something that the fans came up with on their own.
Correct. The reason the missing legions exist is because the authors had originally written they there were 20 legions, but when it came time to publish, they realized they only had 18 descriptions written.
Blackhair Duckshape wrote:Pretty much. It's funny how nowadays making your homebrew chapter be descended from the 2nd/11th is pretty much the biggest heresy you can commit.
For the vast majority of cases where the missing legions are used for a chapter, it has indicated a need to be different just for the sake of being different. It offers nothing more than saying the geneseed was unknown, while opening up numerous plot holes.
That said, fleshing out the legions themselves rather then a successor chapter is a whole different ball game. The recent detailing of the Great Crusade provided by FW has opened up the perfect period for people to experiment with who the missing legions and their primarchs were, in a time period where it makes sense for them to exist. There's a whole project on the subject dedicated to people's ideas on B&C.
Wasn't it the 'Purged' and 'Forgotten' legions for a few editions?
That still left a bit of wiggle room for custom chapters.
Purged - Chaos Marines like Thousand Sons, Warp Ghosts, Zombies.
Forgotten - Disappeared under questionable circumstances, could still be Loyalists like the 13th Company. Could be Chaos or converted to an alien cause like 'The Greater Good'.
I am pretty sure the Founding Legions were originally laid out in the 2nd edition rulebook, and it stated the missing legions were there to allow players to define their own chapters. .
No GW rulebook has ever said this. And it wouldn't make any sense for them to say that... The 40K background already allows players to create a effectively unlimited number of Chapters without ever having to refer back to the lost Legions.
The idea that they were put in there for fans to develop is something that the fans came up with on their own.
Correct. The reason the missing legions exist is because the authors had originally written they there were 20 legions, but when it came time to publish, they realized they only had 18 descriptions written.
Blackhair Duckshape wrote:Pretty much. It's funny how nowadays making your homebrew chapter be descended from the 2nd/11th is pretty much the biggest heresy you can commit.
For the vast majority of cases where the missing legions are used for a chapter, it has indicated a need to be different just for the sake of being different. It offers nothing more than saying the geneseed was unknown, while opening up numerous plot holes.
That said, fleshing out the legions themselves rather then a successor chapter is a whole different ball game. The recent detailing of the Great Crusade provided by FW has opened up the perfect period for people to experiment with who the missing legions and their primarchs were, in a time period where it makes sense for them to exist. There's a whole project on the subject dedicated to people's ideas on B&C.
Wasn't it the 'Purged' and 'Forgotten' legions for a few editions?
That still left a bit of wiggle room for custom chapters.
Purged - Chaos Marines like Thousand Sons, Warp Ghosts, Zombies.
Forgotten - Disappeared under questionable circumstances, could still be Loyalists like the 13th Company. Could be Chaos or converted to an alien cause like 'The Greater Good'.
The "Forgotten and the Purged" moniker was introduced in The First Heretic. It has not appeared anywhere else.
I am pretty sure the Founding Legions were originally laid out in the 2nd edition rulebook, and it stated the missing legions were there to allow players to define their own chapters. .
No GW rulebook has ever said this. And it wouldn't make any sense for them to say that... The 40K background already allows players to create a effectively unlimited number of Chapters without ever having to refer back to the lost Legions.
The idea that they were put in there for fans to develop is something that the fans came up with on their own.
Correct. The reason the missing legions exist is because the authors had originally written they there were 20 legions, but when it came time to publish, they realized they only had 18 descriptions written.
Blackhair Duckshape wrote:Pretty much. It's funny how nowadays making your homebrew chapter be descended from the 2nd/11th is pretty much the biggest heresy you can commit.
For the vast majority of cases where the missing legions are used for a chapter, it has indicated a need to be different just for the sake of being different. It offers nothing more than saying the geneseed was unknown, while opening up numerous plot holes.
That said, fleshing out the legions themselves rather then a successor chapter is a whole different ball game. The recent detailing of the Great Crusade provided by FW has opened up the perfect period for people to experiment with who the missing legions and their primarchs were, in a time period where it makes sense for them to exist. There's a whole project on the subject dedicated to people's ideas on B&C.
Wasn't it the 'Purged' and 'Forgotten' legions for a few editions?
That still left a bit of wiggle room for custom chapters.
Purged - Chaos Marines like Thousand Sons, Warp Ghosts, Zombies.
Forgotten - Disappeared under questionable circumstances, could still be Loyalists like the 13th Company. Could be Chaos or converted to an alien cause like 'The Greater Good'.
The "Forgotten and the Purged" moniker was introduced in The First Heretic. It has not appeared anywhere else.
I wonder if one Primarch became a follower of something older than Chaos, Cthulhu!
The forgotten The primarch Clueless who made a wrong turn with his expedition fleet, and is now between galaxies
icn1982 wrote: Been wondering about the missing Primarchs, and realised each Primarch is an aspect of the Emperor/Has a role in the Emperors plans (depending on which theory you want the go for), Roboute the Empire Builder/Tactician, Russ the executioner, Magnus the Psyker for the Throne etc.
I was wondering what roles the Emperor envisioned for the two missing Primarchs.
We know that the Emperor was a genius when it came to Genetic Engineering, could one of the Primarchs have been intended to fill that role/be that aspect. Also, the Emperor must have had a pretty good grasp of tech, maybe one of them was meant to fill that role - a disagreement between the Primarch and the Mechanicum could have been part of why they were removed from imperial records.
Also, the Ultramarines seem to have two aspects to them - the tactical that you would expect from Roboute, but also other show a sensitive, humanitarian aspect to them. Could they have come from the other legion and it was something to do with the empathy of the other primarch that brought him into conflict with the Emperor.
Its suggested in one of the HH books that one or both were still loyal and could have been called upon to help. Is that how you guys understood it. To have been wiped out, the transgression must have been worse than the thousand sons flesh change, as the Emperor allowed Magnus to work on it.
This idea about them seems interesting. However, what if the lost Primarchs were not aspects of the Emperor that he had but were missing in the actual Primarchs, but instead represented qualities that the Emperor himself lacked but sorely needed during the Horus Heresy? For example, one of them might have been a caring, thoughtful, and respectful parent to contrast with the Emp's mediocre parenting skills. (Not sure how parenting works when you're a Primarchs though.)
40k drinking game: take a shot everytime a book references Skitarii using transports.
Now that is interesting I suppose 'Diplomacy' would cover enough of the bases of what's missing, both with external factions and between the Primarchs.
Not sure what else is missing though.
It's my personal headcanon that the purged legion was lead by a Primarch that specialised in genetic engineering, with a flair for innovation. They were purged because he'd gone so far to create the perfect warrior that his marines were unrecognisable as human, being attacked by the Wolves and written into history as yet another purging of a minor xeno race.
The few initiates and neophytes not yet irreversibly altered were mind-wiped and spread among the rest of the legions. One of which turned out to be our own lovable Fabulous Bill anyone else wondered why he's so different to all the other Emperor's Children? Almost as if he was an Emperor's Child at all...
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ 
+ 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
Necrons: 4000+ pts
Tyranids: 1000+ pts
Word Bearers: 1500+ pts
Emperor's Children: 1500+ pts
Custodes: 1000+ pts 
I suppose 'Diplomacy' would cover enough of the bases of what's missing, both with external factions and between the Primarchs.
