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Grey Knight CAD---

HQ---
Librarian - Psyker Lv 3, Nemisis warding stave, Master Crafted Melee weapon.

Elite---
Paladin Squad - 3 x Paladins with Daemonhammers, Apothecary with Daemonhammer

Troops---
Terminator Squad - 5 x Terminator with Daemonhammer

Terminator Squad - 4 x Terminator with Halberd, Justicar with warding stave

Fast Attack---
Intercepter Squad - 4 x Intercepter with Halberd and Justicar with Warding Stave, teleport homers

Intercepter Squad - 4 x Intercepter with Halberd and Justicar with Warding Stave, teleport homers

Stormraven Gunship - Twin-Linked multi melta, twin-lascannon

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The librarian and paladins will be in the stormraven gunship to ensure not getting gunned down before assaulting any vehicle or squad that needs eliminating, hopefully they should be as strong as wulfen but I'm not sure of paladins they seem a tad overcosted. I could possibly take 9 purifyers, half with hammers half with halberds, although they wouldnt be as durable. Im willing to take suggestions to improving a semi-deathstar to keep my list competative.

Also, a lot of people are sceptical of the gunship and its reserve rules, but I find its a great way of getting into combat without taking too much high strength shots.

Also as Im using the intercepters as teleport homers I don't want my reserves to arrive turn one for a reliable deepstrike, so im taking a CAD for the objective secured.

This is my first list of GK and would appreciate any help.

TBH
To be harsh. Take stormraven as assault transport is ok in casual game but never good in tournament. Your Paladins are not going to do their job until T3, or with worse luck (if you face GSC which give you -1 to reserve), they may not see combat till T5.

Even worse thing is, your Stormraven will be shot down by 3 Flyrant, or Tau Firebase Cadre Broadsides, by the time you come in. AND all Paladin and Librarian is instant deathed.

Imho, drop the paladin and stormraven, take a fully kitted Dreadknight or two. Give each of your terminator squad a psycannon and hammer full stop. Then an incinerator and a hammer to each interceptor. Then it may look better.

Neophyte2012 wrote:
TBH
To be harsh. Take stormraven as assault transport is ok in casual game but never good in tournament. Your Paladins are not going to do their job until T3, or with worse luck (if you face GSC which give you -1 to reserve), they may not see combat till T5.

Even worse thing is, your Stormraven will be shot down by 3 Flyrant, or Tau Firebase Cadre Broadsides, by the time you come in. AND all Paladin and Librarian is instant deathed.

Imho, drop the paladin and stormraven, take a fully kitted Dreadknight or two. Give each of your terminator squad a psycannon and hammer full stop. Then an incinerator and a hammer to each interceptor. Then it may look better.

Holy crap that was probably the best advice I've gotten on these forums, I much prefer harsh and useful commentary than pointless ones. In regards to the list, I'm going to have to start from scratch with this advice in mind, but I have a few more questions.

- Should I take a CAD or Strikeforce, DS turn 1 seems amazing but so does Obesc terminators and deepstriking strike forces? If I do take a CAD I can maximize the utility of the teleport homers on the interceptors.

- Where should I put my 1 or 2 librarians? Should I put them in a large unit of purifiers, or keep them with terminators?

- When you say take a hammer and psycannon do you mean 1 hammer or a whole unit with them?

-What are some units to avoid and units that are a must have, I know a Dknight is generally considered one of the best models in the game but I personally don't like the look of the model.

The Paladins actually are good depending on your meta. If there's lots of S8 (thus insta-killing them and negating the 2 wounds you're paying for) they lose a lot of effectiveness.

Their true power is in Psycannon spam. 5 Paladins with 2 Psycannons, a Brother-Captain with a Psycannon and an Inquisitor with a Psycannon gives you 4 Psycannons in one unit with Divination for re-rolls. It's pricey, but it's the closest Great Knights get to scary shooting.

Regarding the hammers, he means take 1. While neat, I don't think most people recommend having a whole unit strike at initiative 1 due to the unwieldy rule on the hammer.

Purifiers needs transportation so they can get in nova range. I'd say if one of your Librarians rolls Gate of Infinity (or you take the Liber Daemonica to give him high odds of getting Gate), that Librarian should go with the Purifiers.

In general, the three most powerful units in the Grey Knight Codex are Librarians, Terminators and Dreadknights. Most competitive lists max out on these in the order of Dreads, Libbies and then Terminators. Khaldor Draigo and Interceptors make up four and five.

The CAD is actually most useful because it lets you take 3 Dreads while the Strike Force only gives 2. That said, the CAD needs an extra troop tax so if you're having trouble fitting your army into the point max it's easier to opt for the Strike Force.

In general, the most avoided units in our Codex are Strike Squads, which are only taken in absolute point-based necessities usually, Purgation Squads and Dreadnoughts.

The Brother-Captain occasionally replaces a Librarian if more killing power is sought and some people like to use Stern for deathstar builds due to his guaranteed Sanctuary.

Psilencers can also replace Psycannons if you're fighting in a meta without a lot of AV. So heavy on Daemons, Tyranids, Tau Battlesuits, stuff like that.

If you are going for a competitive list I would recommend not bothering with Teleport Homers.

They are kind of cool but what you are doing is simply spending more points to get a squad onto the board without scatter. For roughly the same points you could just get another squad of Terminators and drop them in if the first Squad fails.

I would recommend the Nemesis Strike Force for 2 reasons.

The first and most obvious is Turn 1 Deep Strike.

The second and less obvious is reason is the ability to run and shoot after deep striking in. Being able to run means that you no longer are going to lose all of your Terminators to a single shot from an AP blast. Or better yet you can shoot something then run behind LOS bloking terrian.

If you are worried about losing guys after Deep Strike roll for Invisibility. It makes your squad so much more durable. It is a ridiculous power but honestly GK's need something like that to be competitive.

As for the Limit of only getting 2 HS slots. Just take a second Nemesis Strike Force. You need to take 2 HQ's and 2 Troops then you get 4 HS slots to play with.

Here is one of my lists to give you an idea of what a tough GK list looks like.

1850pts ***(2+ Force D) GREY KNIGHTS

-GREY KNIGHTS NEMESIS STRIKE FORCE-
HQ- Librarian, ML3, Daemon Hammer
140pts

HQ- Librarian, ML3, Daemon Hammer
140pts

T- Grey Knight Terminator Squad
1x GK Justicar Storm Bolter & Sword
2x GK Psycannon & Sword
2x GKs Storm Bolters & Hammer
5x GKs Storm Bolters & Sword
390pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight
Personal Teleporter, Heavy Psycannon, Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword
225pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight
Personal Teleporter, Heavy Psycannon, Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword
225pts

-GREY KNIGHTS NEMESIS STRIKE FORCE-
HQ- Librarian, ML2, Daemon Hammer
115pts

T- Grey Knight Terminator Squad
1x GK Justicar Storm Bolter & Sword
2x GK Psycannon & Sword
2x GKs Storm Bolters & Hammer
5x GKs Storm Bolters & Sword
390pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight
Personal Teleporter, Heavy Psycannon, Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword
225pts

1850pts

I like taking my Terminator Squads in blobs of 10 so before game I can either Combat Squad them or take them as a 10 man blob.

Sometimes foot slogging a 10 man blob can actually be a viable option.

As said in small point games you need numbers.
Here larger units are harder to remove.

Get an imperial Knight and a Dreadknight or 2 for to create an excellent target priority problem for your opponent.

Grey Knight CAD---

HQ---
Librarian - Psyker Lv 3, Nemisis warding stave, Domina Liber Daemonica


Troops---
Terminator Squad - 4 x Terminators with Halberd, 1 x psycannon and daemonhammer

Terminator Squad - 4 x Terminator with Halberd, 1 x psycannon and daemonhammer

Fast Attack---
Intercepter Squad - 3 x Intercepter with Halberd and Justicar with Warding Stave, teleport homers, 1 x incinerator

Intercepter Squad - 3 x Intercepter with Halberd and Justicar with Warding Stave, teleport homers, 1 x incinerator

Heavy Support---
Nemesis Dreadknight - Personal Teleporter, Heavy Psycannon, Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword

Nemesis Dreadknight - Personal Teleporter, Heavy Psycannon, Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword

-----------------------

Made some huge changes to my list, what is everyone thoughts?

I would exchange the interceptors, for something more scary and survivable, but its much better x


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I find Grey Knights lack many scary options to make opponents struggle to face them. You either have too few models or a lack of heavy hitters, thus i find you have to commit to just one of those approaches. Heres my fairly new list.

[1848]

HQ Captain-195
(psycannon, mastercrafted Hammer, Cuirass)


Troops Terminator Squad-194
(5 man, 2 halberds, 2 swords 1 Hammer, 1 psilencer)


Troops Terminator Squad-184
(5 man, 2 halberds, 3 swords, 1 psilencer)

Heavy Support Dreadknight-215
(Teleporter, h psycannon, incinerator)

Heavy Support LandRaider-250
(flamestorm cannons, mm)

Heavy Support Dreadnought-145
(assault cannon)

Formation Custodian Guard-290
(3 stormshields, 3 swords, 2 spears)

Imperial Knight Warden-375
(gatling cannon, chainsword)

Reavas wrote:
Grey Knight CAD---

HQ---
Librarian - Psyker Lv 3, Nemisis warding stave, Domina Liber Daemonica


Troops---
Terminator Squad - 4 x Terminators with Halberd, 1 x psycannon and daemonhammer

Terminator Squad - 4 x Terminator with Halberd, 1 x psycannon and daemonhammer

Fast Attack---
Intercepter Squad - 3 x Intercepter with Halberd and Justicar with Warding Stave, teleport homers, 1 x incinerator

Intercepter Squad - 3 x Intercepter with Halberd and Justicar with Warding Stave, teleport homers, 1 x incinerator

Heavy Support---
Nemesis Dreadknight - Personal Teleporter, Heavy Psycannon, Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword

Nemesis Dreadknight - Personal Teleporter, Heavy Psycannon, Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword

-----------------------

Made some huge changes to my list, what is everyone thoughts?

This one sounds much better. A minor adjustment is maybe exchange the warding stave in interceptor squad with Daemon Hammer. Also, generally I don't think halbred are that good, unless you face T5 / T6 models or AV11rear vehicles or AV11front Walkers often. So maybe either take Falchions for volume of attacks or keep the default swords to save points.

Think about Purifiers and Gates!!!!

@Reevas what part of Australia are you from? I am from the Sunshine Coast so if your nearby we could sprt out a game sometime.

As for the list. Warding Staves are kind of useless. It's not often you will actually need them. You are far better off taking something with a better AP. You will already be getting a 5+ deny the witch with re-rollable 1's which isn't too bad. Rarely will your GK's actually be the target of Psychic attacks though.

 Sinji wrote:
@Reevas what part of Australia are you from? I am from the Sunshine Coast so if your nearby we could sprt out a game sometime.

As for the list. Warding Staves are kind of useless. It's not often you will actually need them. You are far better off taking something with a better AP. You will already be getting a 5+ deny the witch with re-rollable 1's which isn't too bad. Rarely will your GK's actually be the target of Psychic attacks though.

Isn't it a 4+ because they are also psykers? And I live up in NSW. Im taking the staves as they are reasonably high strength and give some nice buffs from powers

Yes, it is 4+.

I'd argue for interceptors in the current meta (your local milage may vary) As mobility is king for objectives and GK has issues with mobility

Reavas wrote:

 Sinji wrote:
@Reevas what part of Australia are you from? I am from the Sunshine Coast so if your nearby we could sprt out a game sometime.

As for the list. Warding Staves are kind of useless. It's not often you will actually need them. You are far better off taking something with a better AP. You will already be getting a 5+ deny the witch with re-rollable 1's which isn't too bad. Rarely will your GK's actually be the target of Psychic attacks though.

NSW might be a bit far for me to drive.

Isn't it a 4+ because they are also psykers? And I live up in NSW. Im taking the staves as they are reasonably high strength and give some nice buffs from powers

6+ base. +1 for being a psyker to be 5+. +1 if your mastery is higher to get you 4+ then if you take the Stave it gives an additional +1 to give a 3+. You also get the benifit of rerolling 1's due to the Grey Knight Special Rules.

Now to lay out the honest truths.

I have been playing Grey Knights as my main army throughout all of 7th edition. In that time I have only rolled a deny the witch a couple of times from a focused psychic power. The rest of the time the Staves just didn't give me any benefits.

For the same points as a Stave for one of your regular guys you can upgrade your Librarian to have a Force Hammer. This is also at WS5 and if you really need to he can detach from the squad (This is situational but the option is nice to have).

If you run 2 Libby's then for the cost of putting a single hammer into of your regular squads you can give a Hammer to each of your Libby's.

Now quite often your Libby with have a higher mastery level that you opponent so he will be getting that +1 buff he can also use his Psychic Hood to help out near by units.

Yes the Stave does give you +2 to your strength but it is also only AP4 most of the time you will be needing to punch through AP3 where every other option takes that away. AP2 is also quite common which the Hammer can deal with a lot of the time you will be facing T4 guys with will be instantly killed by the Hammer but if you face T5 you can Hammer Hand them to get S10. If you are up against T6+ you can pop force to deal with them also.

I will typically stick my Libbys in a squad that has a Justicar with either a Sword or Falchions so I can accept challenges with him. He will get to strike at I4 and leaves the Libby's hammer available to hit at the end (often hitting on 3's due to WS5 but never less that 4's)

Over all I find the Staves to be very situational at best and often that Situation isn't really present. The Hammers, Falchions or Swords as usually useful in every game and the Halberds also tend to be useful but do also sink a lot of points.

Hope that helps.

If it were me I'd min my troop slots with small units of strike squad, dump the inceptors and terminators, then spend the rest on purifiers, another dread knight, and rhinos.

Strike troops don't attract the same firepower terminators do. If they do, they're cheap and that means the enemy isn't shooting something useful. There's a lot of ap2 weaponry out there, and scat spam or gladius will wipe out the termies with small arms fire. But have cheap obsec units is extremely useful to a go army, they typically struggle with maelstrom.

A good compromise can be one unit of termies to put the librarians in, and a strike squad to meet the min. But I prefer to put librarians in rhinos with purifiers.

 slip wrote:
If it were me I'd min my troop slots with small units of strike squad, dump the inceptors and terminators, then spend the rest on purifiers, another dread knight, and rhinos.

Strike troops don't attract the same firepower terminators do. If they do, they're cheap and that means the enemy isn't shooting something useful. There's a lot of ap2 weaponry out there, and scat spam or gladius will wipe out the termies with small arms fire. But have cheap obsec units is extremely useful to a go army, they typically struggle with maelstrom.

A good compromise can be one unit of termies to put the librarians in, and a strike squad to meet the min. But I prefer to put librarians in rhinos with purifiers.

Apart from the small problem of Terminator Armour not being allowed to go in Rhino's

My bad, some of it is foggy. Sold my gk for orks ages ago haha.