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Hey guys.

So i need help dealing with Tau using CSM. Mainly 3 riptides.
No matter how many times i change my list and and strategy. im pretty much down by turn 3

Has anyone got some tips and story's?

well for a start whats your army list look like?

BrianDavion wrote:
well for a start whats your army list look like?

ok so bassicly here is everything i have

HQ
1x Chaos Lord
2x Daemon Prince
1x Kharn the Betrayer
2x Warpsmiths

Elites
5x Chaos Termintors
10x Chosen
3x Helbrutes
5X Possessed
30x Cultis
10x Chaos Space Marines
30x Khorne Berzerkers

Fast Attack
6x Bikers
1x Heldrake
5X Raptors

Heavy Support
1X Chaos Land raider
1x Chaos Vindicator
1X Defiler
1X Forgefiend
10x Havocs
4x Obliterators

Lord Of War
1x Chaos warhound Titan


And if i play Khorne Daemonkin i have

1x Bloodthister (magnertized to be any of the 3)
1x skullCannon
1x Soul grinder

Not going to lie... but, with the models available is going to be tough.

Have you looked at some of the legions?

Try:
legion 1 - Iron Warriors
HQ: DP with that 2+ armour artifact and give it 'Deamon of Tzeentch' for the 2+ rerollable.
Troops: Oblits

legion 2 - Alpha (or Nightlords, can't remember which)
HQ: DP with that 2+ armour artifact and give it 'Deamon of Tzeentch' for the 2+ rerollable.
Troops: cultis

Then anything fast. Ie, maulerfiends that can keep up with the DPs. Against Tau, you really, REALLY need to be aggressive and get in their faces.

Have you played the Warhound Titan? I didn't think the riptides could survive it's loadouts... (turbo-lasers????)

 whembly wrote:
Not going to lie... but, with the models available is going to be tough.

Have you looked at some of the legions?

Try:
legion 1 - Iron Warriors
HQ: DP with that 2+ armour artifact and give it 'Deamon of Tzeentch' for the 2+ rerollable.
Troops: Oblits

legion 2 - Alpha (or Nightlords, can't remember which)
HQ: DP with that 2+ armour artifact and give it 'Deamon of Tzeentch' for the 2+ rerollable.
Troops: cultis

Then anything fast. Ie, maulerfiends that can keep up with the DPs. Against Tau, you really, REALLY need to be aggressive and get in their faces.

Have you played the Warhound Titan? I didn't think the riptides could survive it's loadouts... (turbo-lasers????)

Naaa havnt really tried the titan out yet. on just got it and bit big to transport

Tau aren't fearless so a Night Lords list might be the way to go. Grab a DP with the 2+ armour (Tzeentch for re-roll) and psychic shriek, grab some forgefiends/oblits/havocs and stick them in cover for 4+/3+ saves against ranged ap2/3, grab the raptor talon with plasma guns and lightning claws and give the lord in the talon the -1 Ld relic. Your tactic would be to essencially attempt to destroy enough of each unit that they have to make a leadership check at -3Ld (this works even better with the Heldrake formation for -5Ld) and watch the Tau go running, you can then use psychic shriek on the riptides: with some lucky rolls a riptide wing could be gone in 1-2 turns.

Rhinos w dirge casters, Huron. Try that.

Have you though of death guard? T6 bikes with FnP and fearless might be able to shrug off most of what they throw at you. Raptor Wing might be good? Drop some T5/FNP/Fearless/relentless dudes and double tap plasma before charing?
DG terminators are also good. Plus if you take the vectorum you re roll 1s on your FnP. I dont know your areas meta. You have no troop choices, you might be best off buying generic CSM to turn into Death Guard or cultists to turn into plague zombies.

Well i uses to be a KDK player and branched a bit out to CSM. haven't really tried running anything out side of mark of chaos: khorne. '

so my list i have made using what i have. minus 2 things which im looking into getting depending on what people thing.


anyway list is total 2095pts

Fomations

Fist of the Gods

HQ
Warpsmith: 125pts - Plasma pistol, Power axe, Warlord

(looking at getting) Chaos Predator 120pts - Turret-autocannon,combi-melta, Dirge Caster, Extra Armour, Side Sponsons Heavy Bolters
(looking at getting a 2nd) Chaos Vindicator 135pts - Dirge Caster, Extra Armour,
Chaos Vindicator 135pts - Dirge Caster, Extra Armour,

Mayhem Pack
3x Helbrutes 315pts - Power Fits, Reaper Autocannon.

Fast attacks
5x Raptors 165pts - Icon of Wrath, Mark of Khorne, 2x Meltaguns, Champion- Gift of mutation, Plasma Pistol

Heavy Support

5X Havocs 145pts - 4x autocannon Champion - Lighting Claw, Plasma Pistol
5X Havocs 145pts - 4x autocannon Champion - Lighting Claw, Plasma Pistol

Lord of War

1x Chaos Warhound Titan 810pts - Legacies of ruin: Auloth the Primordial Iterator, Double - Barrelled Turbo- Laser Destructor, Vulcan Mega Bolter

justin12270 wrote:
Well i uses to be a KDK player and branched a bit out to CSM. haven't really tried running anything out side of mark of chaos: khorne. and my friend is a bit anal about playing other marks because they are all painted khorne........... which for him ruins the fluff of the game for him.

tell him you wanna try a new build that might inspire a repaint?

Or tell him to stop being so literal and realize its a REAL expensive hobby.

Honestly my gut feeling is He KNOWS Khonrite CSMs are less then effective against Tau...

BrianDavion wrote:
Honestly my gut feeling is He KNOWS Khonrite CSMs are less then effective against Tau...

Let's not be cynical. I can understand him wanting it to be aesthetically correct. I just think he needs to accept that its not his call and he can deal with the aesthetic issue and get a game in ooooor...not get a game in.

It's that simple really. No one owes it to anyone to spend a hundred hours and a thousand bucks repainting just to meet that standard. I sure wont! Lol.

I've seen a Riptide wing taken down from just a ridiculous amount of shots.
Friend plays Guardsmen with some Space Marines and she just "First Rank FIre! Second Rank Fire!'-ed the hell outta them.

As Riptides don't use armor values, they can be taken down if you just use a whole bunch of fire on them. Another good way to do it, is just get some good units with 2+ saves (think Terminators or Obliterators) and deep strike them and assualt when you can.
Riptides also super suck on close combat, especially if you can get some AP2 goodness somewhere.

With the whole "Fluff" thing, keeping it in lore shouldn't be hard, just you're playing Chaos undivided this time. It fits in the lore and I doubt you'd get any fight from that if you've at least tried to reconcile what he likes to play.
Just don't be a d&*k about how you go about it, I'm sure we've all got ideas about the hobby and while there's nothing wrong with not wanting to soak another few hundred into painting your army, it would be unfair if a person wouldn't let you play a different icon, even if you did find a way in the lore of doing it.

Good luck.

TheOneAboveAll wrote:
I've seen a Riptide wing taken down from just a ridiculous amount of shots.
Friend plays Guardsmen with some Space Marines and she just "First Rank FIre! Second Rank Fire!'-ed the hell outta them.

Almost believable.

Shots: 1500
Hit Chance: 50%
Hits: 750
Wound Chance: 16.67%
Wounds: 125
Saved Wounds: 104.167
Feel No Pain Saves: 6.944
Unsaved Wounds: 13.889
Models Killed: 2.778

Try again.

I love the challenge of 3 Riptides, throw in a Stormsurge, it makes it even more fun!

You're not focusing on the strengths of Chaos, and you're playing directly into the strengths of Tau.

You just need 1 unit of 3 models to completely dominate Tau - The Black Legion Cyclopia Cabal. Mix this with a Chaos Lord with Mark of Nurgle on a Bike, and 5 Nurgle Spawn, and you have a unit that is nearly unstoppable by Tau forces.

With 9 rolls, you have a very high chance to roll up Invisibility and Shrouding on the Telepathy Table. He will be nearly unable to stop you after you cast Invisibility, assuming you get the first turn. If you don't get the first turn, make sure you've prepared your meat shield appropriately. It's allright if it takes you until T3 to get into CC -- once you're there, there is literally nothing he can do while you Force weapon down his Riptides.

You know how you feel when you just remove models from the Riptide Wing's shooting? You have now just used a Rock to his Scissors.

Tau's utter weakness is Psychic Powers. Chaos is strong in Psychic powers, but you haven't chosen to use them. This is why you're losing.

If you don't use Psykers, Tau will walk all over you.

Well, when I play my Eldar against Tau, I first try to annihilate all the marker lights. This usually works quite well with lots of scatter lasers. After the marker lights are gone (in turn 1), it gives me a tactical advantage.
With CSM its quite difficult to do the same.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, when I play my Eldar against Tau, I first try to annihilate all the marker lights. This usually works quite well with lots of scatter lasers. After the marker lights are gone (in turn 1), it gives me a tactical advantage.
With CSM its quite difficult to do the same.

No one else has the magic of the scatterlaser, though.

CSM does have the fantastic raptor wing, though. Although I think it's better against Eldar than Tau.

rusty4tw wrote:
I love the challenge of 3 Riptides, throw in a Stormsurge, it makes it even more fun!

You're not focusing on the strengths of Chaos, and you're playing directly into the strengths of Tau.

You just need 1 unit of 3 models to completely dominate Tau - The Black Legion Cyclopia Cabal. Mix this with a Chaos Lord with Mark of Nurgle on a Bike, and 5 Nurgle Spawn, and you have a unit that is nearly unstoppable by Tau forces.

With 9 rolls, you have a very high chance to roll up Invisibility and Shrouding on the Telepathy Table. He will be nearly unable to stop you after you cast Invisibility, assuming you get the first turn. If you don't get the first turn, make sure you've prepared your meat shield appropriately. It's allright if it takes you until T3 to get into CC -- once you're there, there is literally nothing he can do while you Force weapon down his Riptides.

You know how you feel when you just remove models from the Riptide Wing's shooting? You have now just used a Rock to his Scissors.

Tau's utter weakness is Psychic Powers. Chaos is strong in Psychic powers, but you haven't chosen to use them. This is why you're losing.

If you don't use Psykers, Tau will walk all over you.

well like i said i play khorne so psykers kinder go against khornes way.

locked on Ops request.