Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So the ObSec rule is fairly vague imo, essentially all non-vehicles get the rule in his detachment. I run him solo in his detachment but does he still get the rule himself? If he joins another unit not from his detachment does he lose it? Does the unit gain it?

Also another crazy question: After a pod comes in from reserve and a 10 man unit pops out and combat squads (all within 12in), do you get to shoot all of them or some of them?

Here's a snippet from the draft Inquisition FAQ that came out before the new Imperial Agents codex:

Q: If a unit that is embarked in a Transport arrives from Reserves within 12" of Inquisitor Coteaz and then disembarks, can I use the I’ve Been Expecting You special rule to shoot both the unit and its Transport, or can I only shoot the Transport?

A: You can shoot both. Shoot the Transport as soon as it arrives from Reserves and shoot the unit as soon as it disembarks (if it does so within 12" of Coteaz, and within his line of sight).

Q: Regarding Inquisitor Coteaz’s I’ve Been Expecting You special rule – if you destroy a Transport, can you shoot at the unit that was inside as well?

A: Yes, if the unit is placed within 12" of Coteaz when they perform their emergency disembarkation.

There is no limit on how many times you can "be expecting".

The other questions sounds like one I'll get wrong, so I'll leave that to someone else.

What is the actual wording on the rule?

 ChobitsCrazy wrote:
So the ObSec rule is fairly vague imo, essentially all non-vehicles get the rule in his detachment. I run him solo in his detachment but does he still get the rule himself?

The text in the imperial agent book

If a detachment includes inquisitor C., all non vehicle units in the same detachment have the objsc special rule

It seems to me that this also includes coteaz since he is a unit and in the same detachment as himself.

If he joins another unit not from his detachment does he lose it? Does the unit gain it?

I am not sure about this one. There is a faq that goes something like you can't use detachment special rules for models not in that detachment.
So my best guess is that C. remains objective secured in an other unit but that he doesn't make the rest of the unit obj secured. But I could be wrong and haven't looked that deep into it.

This is the wording of the rule:
If a Detachment includes Inquisitor Coteaz, all non-vehicle units in the same Detachment have the Objective Secured special rule. A unit with this special rule controls objectives even if an enemy scoring unit is within range of the objective marker, unless the enemy unit also has the Objective Secured special rule.

Quanar wrote:Here's a snippet from the draft Inquisition FAQ that came out before the new Imperial Agents codex:

Q: If a unit that is embarked in a Transport arrives from Reserves within 12" of Inquisitor Coteaz and then disembarks, can I use the I’ve Been Expecting You special rule to shoot both the unit and its Transport, or can I only shoot the Transport?

A: You can shoot both. Shoot the Transport as soon as it arrives from Reserves and shoot the unit as soon as it disembarks (if it does so within 12" of Coteaz, and within his line of sight).

Q: Regarding Inquisitor Coteaz’s I’ve Been Expecting You special rule – if you destroy a Transport, can you shoot at the unit that was inside as well?

A: Yes, if the unit is placed within 12" of Coteaz when they perform their emergency disembarkation.

There is no limit on how many times you can "be expecting".

The other questions sounds like one I'll get wrong, so I'll leave that to someone else.

Awesome thanks!

oldzoggy wrote:
I am not sure about this one. There is a faq that goes something like you can't use detachment special rules for models not in that detachment.
So my best guess is that C. remains objective secured in an other unit but that he doesn't make the rest of the unit obj secured. But I could be wrong and haven't looked that deep into it.

My guess would be the same as yours, he still has it but doesn't grant it to his unit, thanks!

If Coteaz joins a unit from another detachment he loses the obsec benefits entirely: he is no longer at that point a non-vehicle unit from his detachment(as he is no longer a unit at all).

So, yes, alone he has obsec. Attached to another unit he does not.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
If Coteaz joins a unit from another detachment he loses the obsec benefits entirely: he is no longer at that point a non-vehicle unit from his detachment(as he is no longer a unit at all).

So, yes, alone he has obsec. Attached to another unit he does not.

This is a debatable point as ICs do not lose their own status when inside another unit based on other rules. Its a mess of rules involving ICs.

They're no longer an individual unit. Otherwise they couldn't again become one.

What nos said.

Coteaz is not a unit from his detachment while attached to a unit from another detachment because he is not a unit at all at that point.

In fact; the FAQs only have 2 things to say about ICs joining unita fron another detachment:

1) the unit doea not count as from either detachment.

2) in the event of different factions via battle brothers the unit counts as both factions for preferred enemy and hatred(also multiple battlefield roles) but not so for beneficial rules(if Lord Commissar joins a SM unit he does not benefit from the chapter tactics rules)

Okay so I essentially have to make him leave the unit at the last minute in case I need to, not like he can move very fast anyway. He'll just be camping an objective.

Then Psyker ICs lose their ability to use powers when attached to a non Psyker or BoP unit?

Why does a Troop with ObSec with a same-Faction IC attached still have ObSec?
Why does a Troop with ObSec with a different-Faction IC attached still have ObSec?

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Why does a Troop with ObSec with a same-Faction IC attached still have ObSec?
Why does a Troop with ObSec with a different-Faction IC attached still have ObSec?

Because only the IC stops being a unit on its own.

Same faction IC, or more to the point same detachment IC, in a CAD/AD(where troops units have Obsec) ceases being its own HQ unit and becomes a member of the troops unit. Even if we take the FAQ on PE and Hatred into account, stretching it to apply to battlefield role as well as faction: the IC and unit is both a Troops and HQ unit from the CAD.

Per the FAQ, the combined unit of a battle brothers IC and troops unit is both factions, and above a unit from both battlefield roles(stretched per above), but is not a unit from either detachment(since it is from both and therefore gains no detachment benefits: neither command nor formation).

The FAQ does overcomplicate things with changing from RAW "becomes a member of the unit for all rules purposes" into "becomes a member of the unit for basic unit interaction pruposes"(i.e. shoots at same target, targeted as a whole, and must charge the same target or creates a disordered charge), along with the whole concept of "now they are everything other than from the same detachment".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fragile wrote:
Then Psyker ICs lose their ability to use powers when attached to a non Psyker or BoP unit?

What are you on about?

Psyker is a special rule for a model. Where did anyone say that ICs lose their inherent special rules?.

BoP is a unit special rule inherent to the unit. Where did anyone say that units lose the special rules on thier datasheets?

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
What are you on about?

Psyker is a special rule for a model. Where did anyone say that ICs lose their inherent special rules?.

BoP is a unit special rule inherent to the unit. Where did anyone say that units lose the special rules on thier datasheets?

If you attach a Librarian to a Tac squad using that logic The Librarian cannot cast his powers. He is a Psyker unit, but attached to the squad he counts as part of that squad for all rules purposes. Since Psyker does not transfer to the squad and "For the purposes of all rules, the term ‘Psyker’ and ‘Psyker unit’ refers to any unit with the Psyker, Psychic Pilot or Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rules", then the Librarian is unable to manifest powers.

IC rules state "for all rules purposes" but there are exceptions.

Your argument here is just incredibly flawed.

ICs do not lose their special rules, so the unit with the psyker attached is a unit with the psyker special rule.

You even posted the relevant rules yourself.

Fragile wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
What are you on about?

Psyker is a special rule for a model. Where did anyone say that ICs lose their inherent special rules?.

BoP is a unit special rule inherent to the unit. Where did anyone say that units lose the special rules on thier datasheets?

If you attach a Librarian to a Tac squad using that logic The Librarian cannot cast his powers. He is a Psyker unit, but attached to the squad he counts as part of that squad for all rules purposes. Since Psyker does not transfer to the squad and "For the purposes of all rules, the term ‘Psyker’ and ‘Psyker unit’ refers to any unit with the Psyker, Psychic Pilot or Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rules", then the Librarian is unable to manifest powers.

IC rules state "for all rules purposes" but there are exceptions.

There's a big difference between a "unit" and a "psyker unit", with different rules governing them. As Kel stated, the psyker model does not lose his special abilities, so he still gets psyker. He is not still a unit on his own when joined to a unit. If this were not true, then the unit he is joined to would provide him no benefit when the unit is being shoat at, as the Librarian could still be targeted as a unit during the shooting phase if he counted as a unit then.

Fragile is referencing an old argument (see a couple posts down here.

In essence, with the new FAQ, it still hasn't fixed all the RAW problems.
For example, if a unit is a unit, then how do you determine who can cast what from all the 12 psykers in a Warlock Conclave? If each one is a "psychic unit" then why are they restricted from casting multiple instances of Psychic Shriek when 6 of them know it?

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Your argument here is just incredibly flawed.

ICs do not lose their special rules, so the unit with the psyker attached is a unit with the psyker special rule.

You even posted the relevant rules yourself.

Show permission for the Psyker rule to transfer to the unit.

When an Independent Character joins a unit, it might have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself (as in the Stubborn special rule), the unit’s special rules are not conferred upon the Independent Character, and the Independent Character’s special rules are not conferred upon the unit.

Its a whole series of flaws in the IC rule. It was made for casual game play rather than our legalistic approach.

Fragile wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Your argument here is just incredibly flawed.

ICs do not lose their special rules, so the unit with the psyker attached is a unit with the psyker special rule.

You even posted the relevant rules yourself.

Show permission for the Psyker rule to transfer to the unit.

When an Independent Character joins a unit, it might have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself (as in the Stubborn special rule), the unit’s special rules are not conferred upon the Independent Character, and the Independent Character’s special rules are not conferred upon the unit.

Its a whole series of flaws in the IC rule. It was made for casual game play rather than our legalistic approach.

The IC's special rules don't need to be conferred to the unit for the IC to still use his special rules

 CrownAxe wrote:

Fragile wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Your argument here is just incredibly flawed.

ICs do not lose their special rules, so the unit with the psyker attached is a unit with the psyker special rule.

You even posted the relevant rules yourself.

Show permission for the Psyker rule to transfer to the unit.

When an Independent Character joins a unit, it might have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself (as in the Stubborn special rule), the unit’s special rules are not conferred upon the Independent Character, and the Independent Character’s special rules are not conferred upon the unit.

Its a whole series of flaws in the IC rule. It was made for casual game play rather than our legalistic approach.

The IC's special rules don't need to be conferred to the unit for the IC to still use his special rules

Then he's not part of that unit for all rules purposes..

Can Coteaz use his "We've been expecting you" rule to draw line of site from an open-topped vehicle or vehicle that has firing points? For example can he sit in a Rhino with a squad of Devastators and fire on units arriving within 12 inches of the Rhino with the Devastator squad?

 TheArmorOfContempt wrote:
Can Coteaz use his "We've been expecting you" rule to draw line of site from an open-topped vehicle or vehicle that has firing points? For example can he sit in a Rhino with a squad of Devastators and fire on units arriving within 12 inches of the Rhino with the Devastator squad?

Only if the rule specifically says he can. Otherwise no.

How does "I've been expecting you" interact with Cult Ambush during deployment? The IBEY rule obviously works when Cult Ambush occurs during player turns 1-7. But what about deploying using Cult Ambush? Would it still be "from reserves"?

Wulfey wrote:
How does "I've been expecting you" interact with Cult Ambush during deployment? The IBEY rule obviously works when Cult Ambush occurs during player turns 1-7. But what about deploying using Cult Ambush? Would it still be "from reserves"?

Cult Ambush during deployment counts as an infiltrate move, meaning they do not come in from reserve. So no, it would not be "from reserves".

Coteaz wouldn´t lose the Obj Sec rule but he doesn´t pass it on to the unit. So if his unit he is attached to is contesting an Obj with an enemy unit then it is contested unless he is specifically within 3" of it.

More questions. Let's say I am running a WarCon with my techpriest Dominus as my warlord. Then let's say I take an Imperial Agents inquisition detachment, the one where any inquisitors (including uniques) get a warlord trait even if they aren't my warlord.

Is Coteaz stuck with Daemonhunter as a warlord trait because it is in his profile? Or can I roll on strategic with Coteaz?

EDIT: not that Daemonhunter is bad. Probably going to be a lot of demons running around these days.

Wulfey wrote:

Is Coteaz stuck with Daemonhunter as a warlord trait because it is in his profile? Or can I roll on strategic with Coteaz?

Read "Warlord Traits and Unique Units" in the BRB. It is very clearly stated there what to do in this situation.

YMDC is not a replacement for the rulebook.

Wulfey wrote:
More questions. Let's say I am running a WarCon with my techpriest Dominus as my warlord. Then let's say I take an Imperial Agents inquisition detachment, the one where any inquisitors (including uniques) get a warlord trait even if they aren't my warlord.

Is Coteaz stuck with Daemonhunter as a warlord trait because it is in his profile? Or can I roll on strategic with Coteaz?

EDIT: not that Daemonhunter is bad. Probably going to be a lot of demons running around these days.

He would keep his. But if you had another inquisitor in there as well you could just say this guy is taking the second warlord trait . i doesn´t have to be coteaz.

Fragile wrote:

 TheArmorOfContempt wrote:
Can Coteaz use his "We've been expecting you" rule to draw line of site from an open-topped vehicle or vehicle that has firing points? For example can he sit in a Rhino with a squad of Devastators and fire on units arriving within 12 inches of the Rhino with the Devastator squad?

Only if the rule specifically says he can. Otherwise no.

Where are you getting your information to make this call?

"I've been expecting you" allows Coteaz and his unit to shoot at anything that arrives from reserves within 12 inches of him and is in line of sight.

As far as I am aware as long as you follow restrictions for shooting and line of sight, he's fine. If he's in a transport that allows for shooting, firing points or open top, he will be meeting those restrictions.

Nothing in the BRB seems to prevent auras from working from inside transports. I have looked at the FAQ as well and found nothing.

No, because you're missing that you only have permission to draw los from a firing point while shooting
He hasn't made it as far as shooting yet - he has to see them first. But he cannot, as he has no permission to draw los from a firepoint for the purpose of ibey