reds8n wrote:

Now thats being pedantic.

facts are often awkward like that.


What foreign business interests did Obama have BTW ?

Relapse wrote:

Sentinel1 wrote:
People say Trump is moving the U.S.A forward in a bad way. If Clinton had won, the U.S.A would have been moving two steps back. She would have been continuing the Democrats policies, white-washing over the developing cracks and ignoring the deepening social divides. If Clinton had won everyone here would be moaning about her being a bad leader, that there was no change in the system and that there relatives sons, daughters, child's, future existence was on the brink of disaster. So either way things wouldn't have been good for all those pessimists out there.

The kind of leader Clinton would have been was well evidenced in her desertion without a word to her supporters on election night when she lost.

Relapse wrote:

Sentinel1 wrote:
People say Trump is moving the U.S.A forward in a bad way. If Clinton had won, the U.S.A would have been moving two steps back. She would have been continuing the Democrats policies, white-washing over the developing cracks and ignoring the deepening social divides. If Clinton had won everyone here would be moaning about her being a bad leader, that there was no change in the system and that there relatives sons, daughters, child's, future existence was on the brink of disaster. So either way things wouldn't have been good for all those pessimists out there.

The kind of leader Clinton would have been was well evidenced in her desertion without a word to her supporters on election night when she lost.

 Easy E wrote:

Sentinel1 wrote:
People say Trump is moving the U.S.A forward in a bad way. If Clinton had won, the U.S.A would have been moving two steps back. She would have been continuing the Democrats policies, white-washing over the developing cracks and ignoring the deepening social divides. If Clinton had won everyone here would be moaning about her being a bad leader, that there was no change in the system and that there relatives sons, daughters, child's, future existence was on the brink of disaster. So either way things wouldn't have been good for all those pessimists out there.

That's the problem, people think these negative thoughts based on what exactly? Their feelings.

I can tell you, the data in the end of the Obama Presidency shows the opposite. Employment improved. Standard of living improved across the board, even for the poor. Troops deployed had gone down. More health insurance coverage and health care. By any measure, Obama killed it as a President.

I wonder where the people got the idea that everything was terrible? How would we get these impressions of gloom and doom when the data says otherwise?

Hmmmmm?

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Frankly having people registered in multiple states and dead people registered isn't actually a problem we should concern ourselves with. That someone is on more than one rolls isn't a huge problem since you have to be in state to actually cast your vote, or apply for an absentee ballot which can only be issued if you meet certain requirements. We can confirm that someone only voted once with a simple multi-state cross checking system which already exists and is how they caught two people in 2016 who tried to vote twice in early voting.

It gives millions of people the ability to legally double vote. This can be a problem especially on college towns and jurisdictions with lots of snow refugees: Florida and Arizona for example. It should be a paramount issue to eliminate all voter fraud and abuse, as well as insure all lawful citizens can vote.

While I agree that having voter rolls regularly purged so they are more accurate that is a state issue and is easier said than done. If you moved from Texas to Wyoming how does the Texas Secretary of State's Election Division know that you have moved and that they need to remove you from the voter rolls? If you don't personally notify the Elections Division there is no mechanism in place that automatically tells them you left. The Elections Divisions can purge deceased voters by using the database of death certificates issued by the state but for people who move there's no database. The easiest way to purge people who left the state is to purge people who haven't voted but that can also result in people who haven't voted but simply not voting doesn't mean you left the state. One of our kids was born the day after Election Day and that year my wife didn't vote because she was way too pregnant to go to the polls. Is missing one election enough to get purged? How many elections do you have to abstain from to get purged? While accurate voter rolls is a good idea and harms no one making it a reality is quite complicated.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


No change for millions of people suffering in rural America. I focused a lot on this area during the campaign, and these people have it tough. In a way, I can see why they voted for Trump, and let's not forget, these people voted for Obama as well. They want change, ANY change. An I don't blame them for that.

Clinton would have been the green light to wall street and more crony capitalism. Drone strikes would have been signed off from Day 1. The media would not have given two

An anti-Iran/Russia stance would have been ramped up under Clinton. That could have led to death and destruction. Trump's foreign policy is exactly what the USA needs after 15 years of half-assed war on terror blundering.

Ultimately, the USA needs to take a long hard look at itself: how did a great nation like America be reduced to choosing between Trump and Clinton?

That is a massive failure in my book.

 Vaktathi wrote:
much like Romney cutting of staffers expense accounts with no warning on election night leaving them stranded at hotels, convention centers, airports, etc?

Prestor Jon wrote:
. If you want to push back against Trump's political agenda then communicate with your Congressional Representative and Senators because they're the ones who can actually do something about it. Expressing yourself with protests is fine but understand that protests won't affect Congress because they're only concerned with their constituents.

 whembly wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Frankly having people registered in multiple states and dead people registered isn't actually a problem we should concern ourselves with. That someone is on more than one rolls isn't a huge problem since you have to be in state to actually cast your vote, or apply for an absentee ballot which can only be issued if you meet certain requirements. We can confirm that someone only voted once with a simple multi-state cross checking system which already exists and is how they caught two people in 2016 who tried to vote twice in early voting.

It gives millions of people the ability to legally double vote. This can be a problem especially on college towns and jurisdictions with lots of snow refugees: Florida and Arizona for example. It should be a paramount issue to eliminate all voter fraud and abuse, as well as insure all lawful citizens can vote.

While I agree that having voter rolls regularly purged so they are more accurate that is a state issue and is easier said than done. If you moved from Texas to Wyoming how does the Texas Secretary of State's Election Division know that you have moved and that they need to remove you from the voter rolls? If you don't personally notify the Elections Division there is no mechanism in place that automatically tells them you left. The Elections Divisions can purge deceased voters by using the database of death certificates issued by the state but for people who move there's no database. The easiest way to purge people who left the state is to purge people who haven't voted but that can also result in people who haven't voted but simply not voting doesn't mean you left the state. One of our kids was born the day after Election Day and that year my wife didn't vote because she was way too pregnant to go to the polls. Is missing one election enough to get purged? How many elections do you have to abstain from to get purged? While accurate voter rolls is a good idea and harms no one making it a reality is quite complicated.

Simply force everyone in the state to "register" every year.

We do this anyway when we declare our personal property taxes (house, cars, if you're a renter)... that is, the state sends you a form of what they think you have, you return it with confirmation/addition so that the state can properly assess what taxes are owed at the end of the year.

Simply piggy back that same function... that's how you truly keep the voter rolls "clean".

Sentinel1 wrote:
People say Trump is moving the U.S.A forward in a bad way. If Clinton had won, the U.S.A would have been moving two steps back. She would have been continuing the Democrats policies, white-washing over the developing cracks and ignoring the deepening social divides. If Clinton had won everyone here would be moaning about her being a bad leader, that there was no change in the system and that there relatives sons, daughters, child's, future existence was on the brink of disaster. So either way things wouldn't have been good for all those pessimists out there.

tneva82 wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:
. If you want to push back against Trump's political agenda then communicate with your Congressional Representative and Senators because they're the ones who can actually do something about it. Expressing yourself with protests is fine but understand that protests won't affect Congress because they're only concerned with their constituents.

Show republicans this sort of policy is not popular and they might start to fight it to help themselves in next elections.


Small chance as republican politicians are out of touch with reality but better than accepting bad silently.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Frankly having people registered in multiple states and dead people registered isn't actually a problem we should concern ourselves with. That someone is on more than one rolls isn't a huge problem since you have to be in state to actually cast your vote, or apply for an absentee ballot which can only be issued if you meet certain requirements. We can confirm that someone only voted once with a simple multi-state cross checking system which already exists and is how they caught two people in 2016 who tried to vote twice in early voting.

It gives millions of people the ability to legally double vote. This can be a problem especially on college towns and jurisdictions with lots of snow refugees: Florida and Arizona for example. It should be a paramount issue to eliminate all voter fraud and abuse, as well as insure all lawful citizens can vote.

Even if we accept such things were possible, there is no evidence that such exists on any meaningful scale, certainly not enough to have tipped any election, despite many investigations on both sides.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:



Trump is the lesser of two evils in my book.

If Clinton had won, we'd be looking at:

No change for millions of people suffering in rural America. I focused a lot on this area during the campaign, and these people have it tough. In a way, I can see why they voted for Trump, and let's not forget, these people voted for Obama as well. They want change, ANY change. An I don't blame them for that.

This assumes Trump is going to do anything for them, and that it will be positive. There is no appearance that such is the case.

Clinton would have been the green light to wall street and more crony capitalism.

and this isnt even more the case with Donald Fething Trump?

Drone strikes would have been signed off from Day 1. The media would not have given two

this didnt happen with Trump?

An anti-Iran/Russia stance would have been ramped up under Clinton. That could have led to death and destruction. Trump's foreign policy is exactly what the USA needs after 15 years of half-assed war on terror blundering.

this is rather wild supposition, particularly given the heavily nationalist and hawkish bent of the Republicans and the Trump crowd in general. From who publicly made this statement...

"The United States must greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capability until such time as the world comes to its senses regarding nukes"

And asked why have them if we're not gonna use them.

So...not seeing the logic here in Trump being the safer bet.

Ultimately, the USA needs to take a long hard look at itself: how did a great nation like America be reduced to choosing between Trump and Clinton?

That is a massive failure in my book.

thats an excellent question

tneva82 wrote:

Sentinel1 wrote:
People say Trump is moving the U.S.A forward in a bad way. If Clinton had won, the U.S.A would have been moving two steps back. She would have been continuing the Democrats policies, white-washing over the developing cracks and ignoring the deepening social divides. If Clinton had won everyone here would be moaning about her being a bad leader, that there was no change in the system and that there relatives sons, daughters, child's, future existence was on the brink of disaster. So either way things wouldn't have been good for all those pessimists out there.

Better than now. If clinton is 2 steps back trumpis 10.


Change for worse is worse than current.

Prestor Jon wrote:

 whembly wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Frankly having people registered in multiple states and dead people registered isn't actually a problem we should concern ourselves with. That someone is on more than one rolls isn't a huge problem since you have to be in state to actually cast your vote, or apply for an absentee ballot which can only be issued if you meet certain requirements. We can confirm that someone only voted once with a simple multi-state cross checking system which already exists and is how they caught two people in 2016 who tried to vote twice in early voting.

It gives millions of people the ability to legally double vote. This can be a problem especially on college towns and jurisdictions with lots of snow refugees: Florida and Arizona for example. It should be a paramount issue to eliminate all voter fraud and abuse, as well as insure all lawful citizens can vote.

While I agree that having voter rolls regularly purged so they are more accurate that is a state issue and is easier said than done. If you moved from Texas to Wyoming how does the Texas Secretary of State's Election Division know that you have moved and that they need to remove you from the voter rolls? If you don't personally notify the Elections Division there is no mechanism in place that automatically tells them you left. The Elections Divisions can purge deceased voters by using the database of death certificates issued by the state but for people who move there's no database. The easiest way to purge people who left the state is to purge people who haven't voted but that can also result in people who haven't voted but simply not voting doesn't mean you left the state. One of our kids was born the day after Election Day and that year my wife didn't vote because she was way too pregnant to go to the polls. Is missing one election enough to get purged? How many elections do you have to abstain from to get purged? While accurate voter rolls is a good idea and harms no one making it a reality is quite complicated.

Simply force everyone in the state to "register" every year.

We do this anyway when we declare our personal property taxes (house, cars, if you're a renter)... that is, the state sends you a form of what they think you have, you return it with confirmation/addition so that the state can properly assess what taxes are owed at the end of the year.

Simply piggy back that same function... that's how you truly keep the voter rolls "clean".

I don't think forcing the state to go through the time and expense to register millions of voters over again every year is the right answer. Elections departments get swamped with registrations in the lead up to Election day every presidential cycle which is why so many voters get stuck with provisional ballots on election day.

Missouri handles property taxes differently than NC then. I just get the form that says I live at X address and the property has Y value. There's no need to send it back unless I've moved or I need to add other taxable property like boats or whatever or if I want to dispute my property valuation. Besides using tax forms as voter registration just complicates the paperwork for the state. You end up with the revenue dept needing to send forms and data over to the elections dept or you end up making the elections dept a subsidiary of the revenue dept etc.

 whembly wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Yeah... he appointed his own people to these departments.

The holdovers from Obama administrations are likely going to lose their job because Trump is going to want his own peeps there...

...

As someone wisely said... elections has consequences.

So you would be perfectly fine if, for example, he put a pacifist with no military experience to be Defense Sec?

My opinion doesn't matter... President appoints, and Senate provides the up/down.

The Senate only has the powah here... they can even choose to NOT even bring the candidate to a vote.

tneva82 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


No change for millions of people suffering in rural America. I focused a lot on this area during the campaign, and these people have it tough. In a way, I can see why they voted for Trump, and let's not forget, these people voted for Obama as well. They want change, ANY change. An I don't blame them for that.

Clinton would have been the green light to wall street and more crony capitalism. Drone strikes would have been signed off from Day 1. The media would not have given two

An anti-Iran/Russia stance would have been ramped up under Clinton. That could have led to death and destruction. Trump's foreign policy is exactly what the USA needs after 15 years of half-assed war on terror blundering.

Ultimately, the USA needs to take a long hard look at itself: how did a great nation like America be reduced to choosing between Trump and Clinton?

That is a massive failure in my book.

You do know no change is better than change for worse? Rurals you talk are poor and middle class that trump is going to screw over to help rich guys.

Change to better with clinton might have been small but better than 0(economy was already improving. All she would have needed to do is maintjin it...) but trump is quaranteed worse.

And trump is leading us into collision with china and no quarantee improve with russia. And if yes that means russia can feel like taking more countries. Face it. Trump is the bigger warhawk. Hell he thinks nukes should have been used already

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Yeah... he appointed his own people to these departments.

The holdovers from Obama administrations are likely going to lose their job because Trump is going to want his own peeps there...

...

As someone wisely said... elections has consequences.

So you would be perfectly fine if, for example, he put a pacifist with no military experience to be Defense Sec?

My opinion doesn't matter... President appoints, and Senate provides the up/down.

The Senate only has the powah here... they can even choose to NOT even bring the candidate to a vote.

What? It's nothing to do with whether he can, it's whether what is is doing it right. Did you not get that?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Frankly having people registered in multiple states and dead people registered isn't actually a problem we should concern ourselves with. That someone is on more than one rolls isn't a huge problem since you have to be in state to actually cast your vote, or apply for an absentee ballot which can only be issued if you meet certain requirements. We can confirm that someone only voted once with a simple multi-state cross checking system which already exists and is how they caught two people in 2016 who tried to vote twice in early voting.

It gives millions of people the ability to legally double vote. This can be a problem especially on college towns and jurisdictions with lots of snow refugees: Florida and Arizona for example. It should be a paramount issue to eliminate all voter fraud and abuse, as well as insure all lawful citizens can vote.

Even if we accept such things were possible, there is no evidence that such exists on any meaningful scale, certainly not enough to have tipped any election, despite many investigations on both sides.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:



Trump is the lesser of two evils in my book.

If Clinton had won, we'd be looking at:

No change for millions of people suffering in rural America. I focused a lot on this area during the campaign, and these people have it tough. In a way, I can see why they voted for Trump, and let's not forget, these people voted for Obama as well. They want change, ANY change. An I don't blame them for that.

This assumes Trump is going to do anything for them, and that it will be positive. There is no appearance that such is the case.

Clinton would have been the green light to wall street and more crony capitalism.

and this isnt even more the case with Donald Fething Trump?

Drone strikes would have been signed off from Day 1. The media would not have given two

this didnt happen with Trump?

An anti-Iran/Russia stance would have been ramped up under Clinton. That could have led to death and destruction. Trump's foreign policy is exactly what the USA needs after 15 years of half-assed war on terror blundering.

this is rather wild supposition, particularly given the heavily nationalist and hawkish bent of the Republicans and the Trump crowd in general. From who publicly made this statement...

"The United States must greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capability until such time as the world comes to its senses regarding nukes"

And asked why have them if we're not gonna use them.

So...not seeing the logic here in Trump being the safer bet.

Ultimately, the USA needs to take a long hard look at itself: how did a great nation like America be reduced to choosing between Trump and Clinton?

That is a massive failure in my book.

thats an excellent question

We don't know what's happening with Trump and drone strikes. It's likely that Trump will continue the depressing trend of using them, but we might be surprised.

Yes, I am fully aware that with all 3 branches under GOP control, the mask will probably slip and the dogs of war will be unleashed i.e we'll see the true face of the GOP.

Or maybe not. I don't mean to patronise you or anybody else, and I'm running out of clichés here,

but we can only wait and see, only time will tell...

Hell, Trump might not even last 4 years.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


No change for millions of people suffering in rural America. I focused a lot on this area during the campaign, and these people have it tough. In a way, I can see why they voted for Trump, and let's not forget, these people voted for Obama as well. They want change, ANY change. An I don't blame them for that.

Clinton would have been the green light to wall street and more crony capitalism. Drone strikes would have been signed off from Day 1. The media would not have given two

An anti-Iran/Russia stance would have been ramped up under Clinton. That could have led to death and destruction. Trump's foreign policy is exactly what the USA needs after 15 years of half-assed war on terror blundering.

Ultimately, the USA needs to take a long hard look at itself: how did a great nation like America be reduced to choosing between Trump and Clinton?

That is a massive failure in my book.

You do know no change is better than change for worse? Rurals you talk are poor and middle class that trump is going to screw over to help rich guys.

Change to better with clinton might have been small but better than 0(economy was already improving. All she would have needed to do is maintjin it...) but trump is quaranteed worse.

And trump is leading us into collision with china and no quarantee improve with russia. And if yes that means russia can feel like taking more countries. Face it. Trump is the bigger warhawk. Hell he thinks nukes should have been used already

Trump's foreign policy, if he's true to campaign promises, is one of the very very few things I agree with him on.

Other NATO countries need to hit that 2% of GDP target on defence. Germany only spends 1.1% of GDP on its military. Trump is correct to call them out on that.

Better dialogue with Russia is a good thing IMO. Talk is cheap, if it comes to nothing, you've lost nothing, but at least you tried.

 whembly wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Frankly having people registered in multiple states and dead people registered isn't actually a problem we should concern ourselves with. That someone is on more than one rolls isn't a huge problem since you have to be in state to actually cast your vote, or apply for an absentee ballot which can only be issued if you meet certain requirements. We can confirm that someone only voted once with a simple multi-state cross checking system which already exists and is how they caught two people in 2016 who tried to vote twice in early voting.

It gives millions of people the ability to legally double vote. This can be a problem especially on college towns and jurisdictions with lots of snow refugees: Florida and Arizona for example. It should be a paramount issue to eliminate all voter fraud and abuse, as well as insure all lawful citizens can vote.

While I agree that having voter rolls regularly purged so they are more accurate that is a state issue and is easier said than done. If you moved from Texas to Wyoming how does the Texas Secretary of State's Election Division know that you have moved and that they need to remove you from the voter rolls? If you don't personally notify the Elections Division there is no mechanism in place that automatically tells them you left. The Elections Divisions can purge deceased voters by using the database of death certificates issued by the state but for people who move there's no database. The easiest way to purge people who left the state is to purge people who haven't voted but that can also result in people who haven't voted but simply not voting doesn't mean you left the state. One of our kids was born the day after Election Day and that year my wife didn't vote because she was way too pregnant to go to the polls. Is missing one election enough to get purged? How many elections do you have to abstain from to get purged? While accurate voter rolls is a good idea and harms no one making it a reality is quite complicated.

Simply force everyone in the state to "register" every year.

We do this anyway when we declare our personal property taxes (house, cars, if you're a renter)... that is, the state sends you a form of what they think you have, you return it with confirmation/addition so that the state can properly assess what taxes are owed at the end of the year.

Simply piggy back that same function... that's how you truly keep the voter rolls "clean".

 whembly wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


No change for millions of people suffering in rural America. I focused a lot on this area during the campaign, and these people have it tough. In a way, I can see why they voted for Trump, and let's not forget, these people voted for Obama as well. They want change, ANY change. An I don't blame them for that.

Clinton would have been the green light to wall street and more crony capitalism. Drone strikes would have been signed off from Day 1. The media would not have given two

An anti-Iran/Russia stance would have been ramped up under Clinton. That could have led to death and destruction. Trump's foreign policy is exactly what the USA needs after 15 years of half-assed war on terror blundering.

Ultimately, the USA needs to take a long hard look at itself: how did a great nation like America be reduced to choosing between Trump and Clinton?

That is a massive failure in my book.

You do know no change is better than change for worse? Rurals you talk are poor and middle class that trump is going to screw over to help rich guys.

Change to better with clinton might have been small but better than 0(economy was already improving. All she would have needed to do is maintjin it...) but trump is quaranteed worse.

And trump is leading us into collision with china and no quarantee improve with russia. And if yes that means russia can feel like taking more countries. Face it. Trump is the bigger warhawk. Hell he thinks nukes should have been used already

Trump's foreign policy, if he's true to campaign promises, is one of the very very few things I agree with him on.

Other NATO countries need to hit that 2% of GDP target on defence. Germany only spends 1.1% of GDP on its military. Trump is correct to call them out on that.

Better dialogue with Russia is a good thing IMO. Talk is cheap, if it comes to nothing, you've lost nothing, but at least you tried.

He's not going to pull out of NATO... while I feel like the US (and other nato countries) pull a lion's share of the NATO expeditures and it sucks... at the end of the day, NATO is very much a high national interest to the US. Something that Sec of Defense Mattis and NatSec Flynn feels very strongly about.

I'm more concerned about Russians shenanigans in the Balkans... ethnic strife is flaring up again...

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Trump Administration, Day 12: Still not in a gay concentration camp or electrocuted by Mike Pence.
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Spoiler:

 whembly wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:

 whembly wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Frankly having people registered in multiple states and dead people registered isn't actually a problem we should concern ourselves with. That someone is on more than one rolls isn't a huge problem since you have to be in state to actually cast your vote, or apply for an absentee ballot which can only be issued if you meet certain requirements. We can confirm that someone only voted once with a simple multi-state cross checking system which already exists and is how they caught two people in 2016 who tried to vote twice in early voting.

It gives millions of people the ability to legally double vote. This can be a problem especially on college towns and jurisdictions with lots of snow refugees: Florida and Arizona for example. It should be a paramount issue to eliminate all voter fraud and abuse, as well as insure all lawful citizens can vote.

While I agree that having voter rolls regularly purged so they are more accurate that is a state issue and is easier said than done. If you moved from Texas to Wyoming how does the Texas Secretary of State's Election Division know that you have moved and that they need to remove you from the voter rolls? If you don't personally notify the Elections Division there is no mechanism in place that automatically tells them you left. The Elections Divisions can purge deceased voters by using the database of death certificates issued by the state but for people who move there's no database. The easiest way to purge people who left the state is to purge people who haven't voted but that can also result in people who haven't voted but simply not voting doesn't mean you left the state. One of our kids was born the day after Election Day and that year my wife didn't vote because she was way too pregnant to go to the polls. Is missing one election enough to get purged? How many elections do you have to abstain from to get purged? While accurate voter rolls is a good idea and harms no one making it a reality is quite complicated.

Simply force everyone in the state to "register" every year.

We do this anyway when we declare our personal property taxes (house, cars, if you're a renter)... that is, the state sends you a form of what they think you have, you return it with confirmation/addition so that the state can properly assess what taxes are owed at the end of the year.

Simply piggy back that same function... that's how you truly keep the voter rolls "clean".

I don't think forcing the state to go through the time and expense to register millions of voters over again every year is the right answer. Elections departments get swamped with registrations in the lead up to Election day every presidential cycle which is why so many voters get stuck with provisional ballots on election day.

Missouri handles property taxes differently than NC then. I just get the form that says I live at X address and the property has Y value. There's no need to send it back unless I've moved or I need to add other taxable property like boats or whatever or if I want to dispute my property valuation. Besides using tax forms as voter registration just complicates the paperwork for the state. You end up with the revenue dept needing to send forms and data over to the elections dept or you end up making the elections dept a subsidiary of the revenue dept etc.

In MO, you must send back your declaration, or face a fine.

I work in IT... as setting up a system whereby the revenue dept sends data to the elections depts is like the most basic, basic aspect of an IT infrastructure/DB management. If done right, it'll be cost effective too.

They way I look at it, EVERY citizen must file taxes in some way shape or form... even if you DON'T pay the state/feds anything. So, instead of re-inventing the wheel by orchestrating an independent workflow, simply piggyback an existing method (like the tax declaration/tax return process).

We do that for things like the selective service.

As kronk may say... lean six sigma this gak yo!

 Frazzled wrote:

 whembly wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Frankly having people registered in multiple states and dead people registered isn't actually a problem we should concern ourselves with. That someone is on more than one rolls isn't a huge problem since you have to be in state to actually cast your vote, or apply for an absentee ballot which can only be issued if you meet certain requirements. We can confirm that someone only voted once with a simple multi-state cross checking system which already exists and is how they caught two people in 2016 who tried to vote twice in early voting.

It gives millions of people the ability to legally double vote. This can be a problem especially on college towns and jurisdictions with lots of snow refugees: Florida and Arizona for example. It should be a paramount issue to eliminate all voter fraud and abuse, as well as insure all lawful citizens can vote.

While I agree that having voter rolls regularly purged so they are more accurate that is a state issue and is easier said than done. If you moved from Texas to Wyoming how does the Texas Secretary of State's Election Division know that you have moved and that they need to remove you from the voter rolls? If you don't personally notify the Elections Division there is no mechanism in place that automatically tells them you left. The Elections Divisions can purge deceased voters by using the database of death certificates issued by the state but for people who move there's no database. The easiest way to purge people who left the state is to purge people who haven't voted but that can also result in people who haven't voted but simply not voting doesn't mean you left the state. One of our kids was born the day after Election Day and that year my wife didn't vote because she was way too pregnant to go to the polls. Is missing one election enough to get purged? How many elections do you have to abstain from to get purged? While accurate voter rolls is a good idea and harms no one making it a reality is quite complicated.

Simply force everyone in the state to "register" every year.

We do this anyway when we declare our personal property taxes (house, cars, if you're a renter)... that is, the state sends you a form of what they think you have, you return it with confirmation/addition so that the state can properly assess what taxes are owed at the end of the year.

Simply piggy back that same function... that's how you truly keep the voter rolls "clean".

Yes this is doable and just one issue relating to voting rights. The argument "well its not material" seem immaterial for people who want to pass confiscatory laws (firearms, "safety" legislation for example) so it doesn't hold water when the actual methodology does no harm whatsoever.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
If I'm all over the place, it's because this damn flu is affecting my judgement and I'm sitting here at the PC to take my mind off it.

Some might say I contradict myself even when I'm fine, but those would be cruel words

Anybody that knows me on dakka hopefully knows that I don't mind apologising if I'm wrong.

If the facts change, I change my opinion, as the quote goes.

If say, 12-18 months down the line I was wrong, feel free to call me out on it.

Then again, it might be too late by then, and I might be battling a mutant horde for control of the world's last tin opener.

 whembly wrote:
Heh... good for them.


Any comments?

 whembly wrote:
Heh... good for them.


Any comments?

 whembly wrote:
Heh... good for them.


Any comments?

 kronk wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Heh... good for them.


Any comments?

It's a good move.