Switch Theme:

US Politics: 2017 Edition  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Building a blood in water scent

 BigWaaagh wrote:
 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
I would also include Belgium, because any country named after one of the worst profanities in the universe...


I am missing a clever play on word? Or just being ignorant about the origins of the name, or some similar-sounding English word?


I'm guessing it refers to Belgian Waffles or Belgian Fries...don't know which. Anyways, it's Texan humor, you'll get used to it.


British humour, check Peregrine's explanation above.

I think Nazi-punching has moral but not legal grounds.

What do my American cousins think of this? Scrapping background checks

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/03 00:22:08


We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” 
   
Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

"It's not a gun issue, it's a mental health issue!'

"Mentally ill people should be able to have guns"



Now don't get me wrong, I don't think we should try and take guns away, but at least keep your story strait.

Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in ca
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin




Roswell, GA

 feeder wrote:


What do my American cousins think of this? Scrapping background checks


Not surprising, guns, jeebus and feth the poor that is the GOP.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




On a surly Warboar, leading the Waaagh!

 feeder wrote:
 BigWaaagh wrote:
 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
I would also include Belgium, because any country named after one of the worst profanities in the universe...


I am missing a clever play on word? Or just being ignorant about the origins of the name, or some similar-sounding English word?


I'm guessing it refers to Belgian Waffles or Belgian Fries...don't know which. Anyways, it's Texan humor, you'll get used to it.


British humour, check Peregrine's explanation above.

I think Nazi-punching has moral but not legal grounds.

What do my American cousins think of this? Scrapping background checks


Much better. If Frazz was slamming Belgian Waffles...well, thems fighting words!
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 jasper76 wrote:
How do you even propose that we "not permit Nazism"?


Deliver alternative hugs until there are no more Nazis.

Would this just be for people who openly espouse Nazism? Or even for people who think Nazi thoughts?


Only for people who advocate Nazism. Thought-crime issues aside, a Nazi who is terrified of being alternatively hugged if they dare to speak in support of their beliefs is not going to be organizing and attempting to implement Nazi policies.

How would this get past the courts given that we have freedom of speech?


As has already been demonstrated you don't need the courts to deal with Nazis. If the state wishes to take an active role in Nazi prevention by throwing the Nazis into prison then that's great, but it's not absolutely necessary.

I suggest ridicule is the better answer. Nazi ideology is ridiculous in modern times, so ridicule it. Make sure it stays ridiculous wherever you come into contact with it. Use your free speech as an antidote.


Ridicule did not end Nazi Germany. Free speech did not end Nazi Germany. The only thing that ended Nazi Germany and their genocide was killing Nazis. And, as they say, those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur




So you're basically advocating vigilantism, thug-rule, perhaps even murder?

No thanks...down this path I will not travel. I will stick with the liberal values of free speech and the rule of law.

A quote from Nietzche comes to mind:

He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/02/03 00:42:59


 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 jasper76 wrote:
So you're basically advocating vigilantism, thug-rule, perhaps even murder?


If the state won't deal with Nazism and that's what it takes to prevent Nazis from getting into power. I would be perfectly happy if the state outlawed Nazi organizations and considered advocating genocide to be criminal incitement to violence and/or hate speech. Imprisoning Nazis for their crimes is preferable to individuals having to take matters into their own hands, but the US is currently not willing to do that job.

No thanks...down this path I will not travel. I will stick with the liberal values of free speech and the rule of law.


Also known as "the path that didn't stop the Nazis from slaughtering millions, and is currently allowing Nazis to try to organize for another attempt".

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur




 Peregrine wrote:
 jasper76 wrote:
So you're basically advocating vigilantism, thug-rule, perhaps even murder?


If the state won't deal with Nazism and that's what it takes to prevent Nazis from getting into power. I would be perfectly happy if the state outlawed Nazi organizations and considered advocating genocide to be criminal incitement to violence and/or hate speech. Imprisoning Nazis for their crimes is preferable to individuals having to take matters into their own hands, but the US is currently not willing to do that job.

No thanks...down this path I will not travel. I will stick with the liberal values of free speech and the rule of law.


Also known as "the path that didn't stop the Nazis from slaughtering millions, and is currently allowing Nazis to try to organize for another attempt".


I wish you luck in your war that was won some 70 years ago.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 jasper76 wrote:
I wish you luck in your war that was won some 70 years ago.


Given the existence of Nazism in 2017 and a government that is moving in a direction that is alarmingly close to fascism I think it's rather naive to say that the war was won 70 years ago. We got Hitler because people thought "it can't really be that bad", do we really want to stand complacently and pretend that it could never happen again? Whatever your feelings on the delivery of alternative hugs to Nazis might be, it is incredibly dangerous to bury your head in the sand and pretend that Nazis only exist in the history books.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/03 00:47:52


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Peregrine wrote:
 jasper76 wrote:
I wish you luck in your war that was won some 70 years ago.


Given the existence of Nazism in 2017 and a government that is moving in a direction that is alarmingly close to fascism I think it's rather naive to say that the war was won 70 years ago. We got Hitler because people thought "it can't really be that bad", do we really want to stand complacently and pretend that it could never happen again? Whatever your feelings on the delivery of alternative hugs to Nazis might be, it is incredibly dangerous to bury your head in the sand and pretend that Nazis only exist in the history books.


There is a vast gulf of distance between the actual nazis and the dip$h1+$ today. The conditions that allowed the rise of hitler do not exist today and no amount of careless rhetoric makes donald trump into hitler. The weimer republic and the US are nothing alike. The worst part here is "who is a nazi?" sure the redneck with the swastika tattoo is easy to figure out, but that title is being tossed around alot. what happens when you get alternative hugged back? cry and whine hate crime? for an attack you provoked by attacking people? attack ideas not people.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 thekingofkings wrote:
There is a vast gulf of distance between the actual nazis and the dip$h1+$ today.


Not really. The only meaningful difference is that the Nazis in Germany managed to get into power and carry out their plans, while current Nazis haven't yet.

The conditions that allowed the rise of hitler do not exist today


This is complacency and a lack of imagination. The fact that the exact same historical situation doesn't exist does NOT mean that a modern Nazi movement can't get into power.

and no amount of careless rhetoric makes donald trump into hitler.


Nobody is (seriously) arguing that Trump is Hitler. He's an incompetent clown, a terrible person, and an embarrassment to the US, but he isn't Hitler. The subject of this discussion is Richard Spencer, a Nazi and Trump supporter, not Trump himself.

The worst part here is "who is a nazi?" sure the redneck with the swastika tattoo is easy to figure out, but that title is being tossed around alot.


I think a pretty good starting point is "advocating the extermination of lesser races", which Richard Spencer has done.

what happens when you get alternative hugged back? cry and whine hate crime? for an attack you provoked by attacking people? attack ideas not people.


This is an absurd argument. If someone breaks into my house and is threatening me with a gun it's justifiable self defense if I shoot them. If they shoot me back it would be sheer insanity to argue that I somehow provoked the attack.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




On a surly Warboar, leading the Waaagh!

 jasper76 wrote:
So you're basically advocating vigilantism, thug-rule, perhaps even murder?

No thanks...down this path I will not travel. I will stick with the liberal values of free speech and the rule of law.

A quote from Nietzche comes to mind:

He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee.


How about we just kick the Nazis down into the abyss and be done with it? Would that work out for everyone?


Meanwhile, laws protecting drinking water are apparently considered an "unnecessary regulation" by the coal industry. *Mental note...if passing through West Virginia, bring bottled water.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-congress-coal-idUSKBN15H2RK?feedType=RSS&virtualBrandChannel=14230

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/03 01:41:11


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Peregrine wrote:
 thekingofkings wrote:
There is a vast gulf of distance between the actual nazis and the dip$h1+$ today.


Not really. The only meaningful difference is that the Nazis in Germany managed to get into power and carry out their plans, while current Nazis haven't yet.

The conditions that allowed the rise of hitler do not exist today


This is complacency and a lack of imagination. The fact that the exact same historical situation doesn't exist does NOT mean that a modern Nazi movement can't get into power.

certainly, they are such a small minority and noone takes them seriously.

and no amount of careless rhetoric makes donald trump into hitler.


Nobody is (seriously) arguing that Trump is Hitler. He's an incompetent clown, a terrible person, and an embarrassment to the US, but he isn't Hitler. The subject of this discussion is Richard Spencer, a Nazi and Trump supporter, not Trump himself.

The worst part here is "who is a nazi?" sure the redneck with the swastika tattoo is easy to figure out, but that title is being tossed around alot.


I think a pretty good starting point is "advocating the extermination of lesser races", which Richard Spencer has done.
dont really know who he is other than the "punch the nazi guy" will have to check that

what happens when you get alternative hugged back? cry and whine hate crime? for an attack you provoked by attacking people? attack ideas not people.


This is an absurd argument. If someone breaks into my house and is threatening me with a gun it's justifiable self defense if I shoot them. If they shoot me back it would be sheer insanity to argue that I somehow provoked the attack.

but noone is doing that, this guy was assaulted in the street for talking...
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 thekingofkings wrote:
but noone is doing that, this guy was assaulted in the street for talking...


No, he was alternatively hugged in the street because he is a Nazi who advocates the extermination of the lesser races and the creation of a white nation to protect the purity of the superior white race. This is not a case of "lol, you disagree with me on tax policy UR A NAZI", Richard Spencer is actually a Nazi.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 thekingofkings wrote:
certainly, they are such a small minority and noone takes them seriously.


The Nazis were a small minority at one point too, and nobody took them seriously. And then they stopped being a small minority. While actual Nazis may currently be rare it would be incredibly naive to overlook the very real problems the US has with racism, and the potential for that racism to get worse.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/03 01:57:37


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

 BigWaaagh wrote:
[Meanwhile, laws protecting drinking water are apparently considered an "unnecessary regulation" by the coal industry. *Mental note...if passing through West Virginia, bring bottled water.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-congress-coal-idUSKBN15H2RK?feedType=RSS&virtualBrandChannel=14230


Of course. They Republican party has proven, time and time again, that they care nothing for citizens or the environment, especially when they are in the way of profits.

Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





So apparently, protesters at the Berkeley riots attacked people in the streets.

Are you happy now, Peregrine?





The only fascists I see are the ones who think this behaviour is acceptable.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/03 02:26:06


 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
So apparently, protesters at the Berkeley riots attacked people in the streets.

Are you happy now, Peregrine?


That depends, were the people being attacked actual Nazis like Richard Spencer, or were they merely people that the crowd disagreed with?

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur




Wining hearts and minds one beating at a time.

Seriously, the left has left me behind. I sincerely hope after a period of time these people realize that they have become the very monsters that they rail against.
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 Peregrine wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
So apparently, protesters at the Berkeley riots attacked people in the streets.

Are you happy now, Peregrine?


That depends, were the people being attacked actual Nazis like Richard Spencer, or were they merely people that the crowd disagreed with?


Like you give a feth. You're the fascist here.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Peregrine wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
So apparently, protesters at the Berkeley riots attacked people in the streets.

Are you happy now, Peregrine?


That depends, were the people being attacked actual Nazis like Richard Spencer, or were they merely people that the crowd disagreed with?


This is part of the problem. Milo by association with skitebart news is often called a nazi. and watching the (albeit 44 seconds) video on spencer, there was no justification whatsoever to run up and punch him, he even stated on camera he is not a neo nazi.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/03 02:38:09


 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 jasper76 wrote:
Wining hearts and minds one beating at a time.

Seriously, the left has left me behind. I sincerely hope after a period of time these people realize that they have become the very monsters that they rail against.


They are the embodiment of the political horseshoe theory.
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

If people can't discuss this in a grown up fashion, you won't be discussing it. Temp lock for a while for people to cool off, and when we come back we're not discussing the Nazi punch. At all. You had a chance to discuss it and you have blown it.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Feel free to start a new thread, this one is going to remain locked. There is too much rude behaviour to think that it can remotely pick up on the right side of dakka dakka's rules.

When creating a new thread, keep in mind my above post. In this new thread we're not discussing the Nazi punch. At all. You had a chance to discuss it and you have blown it. Make sure the new thread has a sensible title so we don't have to edit it first thing again, and try and keep the thread sensible for at least a while or else we'll have to reconsider having US Politics discussions in the OT.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/03 08:12:27


I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
 
Forum Index » Off-Topic Forum
Go to: