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All things considered, first turn charges are good for the game and something that was required.

One might consider that if the game includes ways to shoot someone off the board on turn 1, then such an option should exist for melee. Melee was and to some extent still is the underdog.

The games meta was absolutely shooting dominated before the latest additions. Armies like Tau didn't have to worry about melee or going for the TAC approach.

Now they do, as you might have to go against an army of GSC, World Eaters and the like.

In a perfect world shooting wouldn't be powerful enough to delete armies off the board on turn one, and due to this melee who waltzes across the table would have an equal chance of victory.

The only way to counter turn 1 tabling shooting is turn 1 tabling melee. Or something that can take the hits and live to tell the tale, which would be a deathstar. Equally unenjoyable.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Genestealer cults while annoying far as i know have a 1 in 6 chance to roll melee for their units coming in and they may roll up bad results.

Perhaps you should start by reading the OP before posting about this? It's a 1/6 roll on the table, but there are various ways of improving the roll that make it much more consistent.

As for transports, yes, they help, but only at an extreme cost. Chimeras are 55 points each and require a commitment to a tank-heavy army to be effective. That's a lot of points to be spending on sacrificial units that leave the survivors of the squad inside trapped at point blank range next to a wall of threats that will eat them next turn if they don't completely table the assault army in a single shooting phase. And all those LRBTs that you have to take to make mech IG effective are 150+ point paperweights against first-turn charges.

That's funny, if any shootie armie benefits from first turn assault it's Astra Militarum.
1. Cheap bodies to block the assault? Absolute check.
2. Metal Boxes that lay down lots of fire then either blow up in the enemy's face or get wrecked to create roadblocks? Hell Yeah.
3. Fortifications that can make five models cover a foot of board space? Gotit!
4. Long Ranged blasts? Guard got that.
5. Benefits when all the other shootie armies downsize their artillery because first turn assaults got them scared? Hell yeah.

Been playing IG since 2nd ed, and thoroughly disagree with your 'analysis'.

1. You mean Conscripts? Deployed in a tight bubble all the way around everything else in my army? Not as 'cheap' as you seem to think, IMO, since it would probably take 2 x 50 man squads of them to build a decent meat shield, which also means two platoons, etc etc...

2. Chimeras? AV 10 deathtraps that will die if they get charged. Using the two platoon matrix above, that means a minimum of six of them at 65 points each, almost 400 points. So let's see, we're already at 800-900 points, depending on weapons in the platoons...

3. Not even sure what you're talking about here, but let's just go with a standard Aegis Line with a gun, that's what? another 100 or so? So depending on size of game, I now have 500-850 or so points for an HQ and anything else, like valk/vendettas, Leman Russ tanks, an HQ of some sort, etc etc etc

4. Long ranged blasts don't do much to units that start right in your face and/or engage you in assault before you get to shoot them... 'Nuff said.

5. This one might be a possibility, except that if I modify my army, aren't I in the same boat?

BTW, I have a large Genestealer Cult army from way back in the day, and am hoping to field it once I rebuild models to the current ruleset, so I guess I'm on both sides of this predicament. How do I build my IG or Sisters to face this issue, and how do I build my GS Cult to make use of it?

 Runic wrote:


One might consider that if the game includes ways to shoot someone off the board on turn 1, then such an option should exist for melee. Melee was and to some extent still is the underdog.

So we are now moving toward a rocket tag game and this is somehow good?

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Runic wrote:


One might consider that if the game includes ways to shoot someone off the board on turn 1, then such an option should exist for melee. Melee was and to some extent still is the underdog.

So we are now moving toward a rocket tag game and this is somehow good?

That one idea is horrible. For once I agree with you.

Honestly, warhammer 40k needs to be burnt down to the ground (the rules, not the setting) and start anew with something more streamlined and properly done.

 Runic wrote:
All things considered, first turn charges are good for the game and something that was required.

One might consider that if the game includes ways to shoot someone off the board on turn 1, then such an option should exist for melee. Melee was and to some extent still is the underdog.

OR One could make it impossible to shoot something off the board turn one.
Like add hit modifiers or something. Which is what every other wargame nowadays seems to be doing.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Runic wrote:


One might consider that if the game includes ways to shoot someone off the board on turn 1, then such an option should exist for melee. Melee was and to some extent still is the underdog.

So we are now moving toward a rocket tag game and this is somehow good?

That one idea is horrible. For once I agree with you.

Honestly, warhammer 40k needs to be burnt down to the ground (the rules, not the setting) and start anew with something more streamlined and properly done.

I would prefer, making a parallel with WHFB, a reboot like WHFB 6th edition that something completely new like AoS.

But here is where we start to disagree again

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Runic wrote:


One might consider that if the game includes ways to shoot someone off the board on turn 1, then such an option should exist for melee. Melee was and to some extent still is the underdog.

So we are now moving toward a rocket tag game and this is somehow good?

That one idea is horrible. For once I agree with you.

Honestly, warhammer 40k needs to be burnt down to the ground (the rules, not the setting) and start anew with something more streamlined and properly done.

I would prefer, making a parallel with WHFB, a reboot like WHFB 6th edition that something completely new like AoS.

But here is where we start to disagree again

Honestly I'd hate an AoS-clone for 40k. I play the games because they are their own thing, not a copy-and-past version IN SPACE! I mean, it was fine for rogue trader but I find it depressing that, should they want to make an interesting game, the dev-team must always copy-cat the fantasy version.

6th ed seemed fine, from what my friends said.

Lord Kragan wrote:
.

6th ed seemed fine, from what my friends said.

A nice thing they did was to release a Ravening Hordes book with all the armies as a simple, universal army book, and then build from that.
6th was good if
1) played with tournament limitations - limits to magic, anti-spam rules for specials and rare units
2) you did not get the usual "the designer hates my army" like happened to High Elves. Jake Thornton makes Cruddace look good. Is an impressive feat.
Still cavalry was too strong. But 8th edition needed to go more back to that instead of goin in that suicide path.

So for 40k a reboot does not grant anything, but the game needs pruning. My fear is that designers interpret it as a
"CAD and WS tables are difficult, let's get rid of them" while the problems, of course, lie elsewhere.

I'm not sure it makes any sense to *want* a game where nothing happens on turn one.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:


So we are now moving toward a rocket tag game and this is somehow good?

Never saw anyone saying this is a good thing. Possibly someones opinion, surely. Notice the "all things considered."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:



OR One could make it impossible to shoot something off the board turn one.
Like add hit modifiers or something. Which is what every other wargame nowadays seems to be doing.

That'd be better, however the current reality is that the power of ranged lists is/was too great.

Now you can get both shot and charged off the table on turn one. That's better than just the former, since it atleast forces the gunline lists to account for meeting the instant melee (or take a chance, possibly end up decimated.) I guess someone might think having shooting being dominant and the only way to remove someones army on turn one (or cripple it so badly the game is over in practice) is a good thing, but I disagree. I see nothing positive in the ranged aspect being superior. Atleast now things are a bit more even and some melee lists have a chance.

If we're talking complete theory then the greatest solution would be for the game to be balanced in all aspects.

There is an irony to Eldar players complaining the rules for the new Genestealer cults are overpowered and wrecking the game.

Am just getting started with a Black Legion army under the new rules. Another thing to think about is the ability to deep strike on turn one. Only Raptors can assault that turn, but Cyclopea Cabals that arrive get Shroud of Deceit and can have an 18 inch nova power.

This can be almost as powerful as a turn one assault. Used this army against an Eldar scatbike list over the holidays. Killed a Farseer and had the scatbikes shooting each other up in the first turn. Abaddon was assaulted turn 2, which actually worked against my opponent. Game ended turn 4.

There are some simple, obvious counters to this, but it will take time for pure gunline armies to compensate. I agree it is a major change for 7th edition, but certainly not something that wrecks the game.

 techsoldaten wrote:
There is an irony to Eldar players complaining the rules for the new Genestealer cults are overpowered and wrecking the game.

Am just getting started with a Black Legion army under the new rules. Another thing to think about is the ability to deep strike on turn one. Only Raptors can assault that turn, but Cyclopea Cabals that arrive get Shroud of Deceit and can have an 18 inch nova power.

This can be almost as powerful as a turn one assault. Used this army against an Eldar scatbike list over the holidays. Killed a Farseer and had the scatbikes shooting each other up in the first turn. Abaddon was assaulted turn 2, which actually worked against my opponent. Game ended turn 4.

There are some simple, obvious counters to this, but it will take time for pure gunline armies to compensate. I agree it is a major change for 7th edition, but certainly not something that wrecks the game.

Yes because all Eldar players are competitive players who deserve to be bashed by other competitive-ish combos.

You might want to use your anti scatbike combo against other armies to see how it fares... it may be another of these tailored anti-Eldar lists... how does it deal with the first turn Imperium of Friends charge ?

Sweet sweet Eldar tears. Seriously. Start paying the appropriate costs for 75% of your codex and we'll talk.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Runic wrote:


One might consider that if the game includes ways to shoot someone off the board on turn 1, then such an option should exist for melee. Melee was and to some extent still is the underdog.

So we are now moving toward a rocket tag game and this is somehow good?

It doesn't matter if it's good. It's just. As soon as Codex:Eldar was printed for 7th ed there needed to be a reciprocal force.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Runic wrote:
All things considered, first turn charges are good for the game and something that was required.

One might consider that if the game includes ways to shoot someone off the board on turn 1, then such an option should exist for melee. Melee was and to some extent still is the underdog.

OR One could make it impossible to shoot something off the board turn one.
Like add hit modifiers or something. Which is what every other wargame nowadays seems to be doing.

Armies were shot off the board MORE in 2nd ed and that was with to-hit modifiers.

Martel732 wrote:
Sweet sweet Eldar tears. Seriously. Start paying the appropriate costs for 75% of your codex and we'll talk.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Runic wrote:


One might consider that if the game includes ways to shoot someone off the board on turn 1, then such an option should exist for melee. Melee was and to some extent still is the underdog.

So we are now moving toward a rocket tag game and this is somehow good?

It doesn't matter if it's good. It's just. As soon as Codex:Eldar was printed for 7th ed there needed to be a reciprocal force.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Runic wrote:
All things considered, first turn charges are good for the game and something that was required.

One might consider that if the game includes ways to shoot someone off the board on turn 1, then such an option should exist for melee. Melee was and to some extent still is the underdog.

OR One could make it impossible to shoot something off the board turn one.
Like add hit modifiers or something. Which is what every other wargame nowadays seems to be doing.

Armies were shot off the board MORE in 2nd ed and that was with to-hit modifiers.

We will talk when codex marines stops bringing 600+ of free vehicles or 2++ re-rollables with 2+ fnp at T5 and EW. So apparently guardian squads are broken now, pathfinders too. Warlock conclaves are broken too, and so are shinning spears, vypers, fireprisms, etc. Yeah, most of the codex is extremely underpriced and it's certainly not three (maybe 4) specific units.
You got that reciprocal force, it was in codex: space marines. And that force went out of its way to blow even harder the game.

Honestly speaking I find mindboggling that ANY side says it's fine to finish the game turn 1 before the other side has the chance of doing anything.

Martel732 wrote:


Armies were shot off the board MORE in 2nd ed and that was with to-hit modifiers.

With negative modifiers? I find that hard to believe.

 don_mondo wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Genestealer cults while annoying far as i know have a 1 in 6 chance to roll melee for their units coming in and they may roll up bad results.

Perhaps you should start by reading the OP before posting about this? It's a 1/6 roll on the table, but there are various ways of improving the roll that make it much more consistent.

As for transports, yes, they help, but only at an extreme cost. Chimeras are 55 points each and require a commitment to a tank-heavy army to be effective. That's a lot of points to be spending on sacrificial units that leave the survivors of the squad inside trapped at point blank range next to a wall of threats that will eat them next turn if they don't completely table the assault army in a single shooting phase. And all those LRBTs that you have to take to make mech IG effective are 150+ point paperweights against first-turn charges.

That's funny, if any shootie armie benefits from first turn assault it's Astra Militarum.
1. Cheap bodies to block the assault? Absolute check.
2. Metal Boxes that lay down lots of fire then either blow up in the enemy's face or get wrecked to create roadblocks? Hell Yeah.
3. Fortifications that can make five models cover a foot of board space? Gotit!
4. Long Ranged blasts? Guard got that.
5. Benefits when all the other shootie armies downsize their artillery because first turn assaults got them scared? Hell yeah.

Been playing IG since 2nd ed, and thoroughly disagree with your 'analysis'.

1. You mean Conscripts? Deployed in a tight bubble all the way around everything else in my army? Not as 'cheap' as you seem to think, IMO, since it would probably take 2 x 50 man squads of them to build a decent meat shield, which also means two platoons, etc etc...

2. Chimeras? AV 10 deathtraps that will die if they get charged. Using the two platoon matrix above, that means a minimum of six of them at 65 points each, almost 400 points. So let's see, we're already at 800-900 points, depending on weapons in the platoons...

3. Not even sure what you're talking about here, but let's just go with a standard Aegis Line with a gun, that's what? another 100 or so? So depending on size of game, I now have 500-850 or so points for an HQ and anything else, like valk/vendettas, Leman Russ tanks, an HQ of some sort, etc etc etc

4. Long ranged blasts don't do much to units that start right in your face and/or engage you in assault before you get to shoot them... 'Nuff said.

5. This one might be a possibility, except that if I modify my army, aren't I in the same boat?

BTW, I have a large Genestealer Cult army from way back in the day, and am hoping to field it once I rebuild models to the current ruleset, so I guess I'm on both sides of this predicament. How do I build my IG or Sisters to face this issue, and how do I build my GS Cult to make use of it?

Uh huh.
If you've been Guarding since 2nd edition you must think I've never read the codex.
1. 60 point squads of Conscripts are hardly your cheapest line of meat shields.
Lets try 130 points for an Infantry Platoon that gives you two 50 point units of infantry and a 30 point Command Squad.
Since each Alpha Strike works diffrrently they need different strategies.

Against Drop Pods - Three of these platoons laid out right can prevent Drop Pods even landing close to your stuff. Using Aussie 5c pieces - smaller than a guard base - and abusing the two inch rule I can cover three square feet of playing surface, and that's for 390 points. Add in terrain and whatever tanks you happen to be fielding , plus the size of the drop pod itself and the fact it has to be at least two inches away from any one of your models and I'm pretty sure a smart fellow like yourself could prevent an opponent's pod from even landing in your deployment zone.
Against Wulfen boosted Spaz Mutts - Mutts are going in one direction, forward. Plant your stuff behind the biggest bottle neck in your deployment zone and plug the gaps with lines of meat shields and the Chimeras, the Wolves hit the first meat wall and evaporate it then stop. Shoot the hell out of them. They charge again, hit the second meat shield, evaporate it then stop. Shoot the hell out of them. They charge again and hit the Chimera, it either blows up and deals wounds or it becomes a wreck and difficult terrain TWC and Space Wolves bikes really don't like moving through difficult terrain, it becomes dangerous terrain. Make them pay for every inch with saving throws. Did I already mention shooting the hell out of them?
TWC Deathstar - That bottleneck is going to be an even bigger pain to the butt. Forget multi charges, you can limit that Deathstar down to two inches per turn, for a grand total of nine squads and 390 points, assuming they can shoot a full squad a turn out of the way.
Genestealers are the hard one, I've never played with or against the Cult, so I have no idea what their Alpha Strike entails or how many units they can bring to the party.

2. Chimeras are only deathtraps if they have troops inside them or 'Bubble wrapping' them. Use the fact that the Chimera takes up space and has the habbit of blowing up to make it a nifty roadblock, until then use it's guns.

3. I was actually thinking Wall of Martys defense lines and bunkers. Don't bother with gun batteries, 80 points to plug that bigger hole. We're sitting at 600 points so far which leaves you 1250 to buy big tanks.

4. We've covered how to stop them getting close to your big guns, blast away Son!

5.Yes and no. Because your meat shields are cheaper per model than Eldar and Tau those two are being hit harder by all this and those extra gun platforms the Tau have had to drop to field said meat shields mean less Ignores Cover pie plates being dropped on your stuff.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Martel732 wrote:


Armies were shot off the board MORE in 2nd ed and that was with to-hit modifiers.

With negative modifiers? I find that hard to believe.

Everything cost way more points, targeters were a thing, as were sustained fire dice and armor modifiers. You do the math. I saw it happen at least a dozen times, twice to myself.

Martel732 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Martel732 wrote:


Armies were shot off the board MORE in 2nd ed and that was with to-hit modifiers.

With negative modifiers? I find that hard to believe.

Everything cost way more points, targeters were a thing, as were sustained fire dice and armor modifiers. You do the math. I saw it happen at least a dozen times, twice to myself.

So don't have those things. Just because one edition used to hit modifiers and had those things doesn't mean to have to use all those things again along with re-introduced to hit modifiers.

 techsoldaten wrote:
There is an irony to Eldar players complaining the rules for the new Genestealer cults are overpowered and wrecking the game.

Yup. I can admit with not a shred of guilt that I think Eldar having a nasty matchup is a good thing. Also challenging for the Tau, but not as bad.

Something long overdue.

@Kagan

SM are the neo-orks as battlecompany is a horde list. And i have better success against them than tau or eldar.

Look at marines without formations or even ba formations. Most eldar units are undercosted. Naming off the few that aren't doesn't get you any pity points.

Eldar effectively end me in one turn, so it's time the shoe is on the other foot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Martel732 wrote:


Armies were shot off the board MORE in 2nd ed and that was with to-hit modifiers.

With negative modifiers? I find that hard to believe.

Everything cost way more points, targeters were a thing, as were sustained fire dice and armor modifiers. You do the math. I saw it happen at least a dozen times, twice to myself.

So don't have those things. Just because one edition used to hit modifiers and had those things doesn't mean to have to use all those things again along with re-introduced to hit modifiers.

I will always oppose to hit modifiers on a D6.

 Runic wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
There is an irony to Eldar players complaining the rules for the new Genestealer cults are overpowered and wrecking the game.

Yup. I can admit with not a shred of guilt that I think Eldar having a nasty matchup is a good thing. Also challenging for the Tau, but not as bad.

Something long overdue.

Jesus... what codex do you even play ?

How can people hate Eldar so much for daring to have a full 24 months of competitive light between years of Imperial abuse ???

Because Eldar have been the consistently best codex in 40K forever.

Martel732 wrote:
@Kagan

SM are the neo-orks as battlecompany is a horde list. And i have better success against them than tau or eldar.

Look at marines without formations or even ba formations. Most eldar units are undercosted. Naming off the few that aren't doesn't get you any pity points.

Eldar effectively end me in one turn, so it's time the shoe is on the other foot.

"Naming off the few that arent". Do you mean 3 out of 5 troop choices, almost all unique headquarter choices, 2 (if not 3) out of 4 of the generic ones, half if not more the tanks and fliers, half of the aspects (swooping hawks, banshees, shinning spears, dire avengers) is a few units that are not undercosted? Because wow, you have a high treshold for a "few", there's easily 2/3 of the codex there.

If you can beat easily a broken-ass SM force (battlecompany/superfriends) you can beat a generic eldar force that is not scatbike/warpsider/wraithknight spam. That doesn't give you pity points, it makes you look like a D-bag.

I look at SM without formation and I see grav-cav still is there, which can and has handily win tournaments, specially with white scars.

Lord Kragan wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
@Kagan

SM are the neo-orks as battlecompany is a horde list. And i have better success against them than tau or eldar.

Look at marines without formations or even ba formations. Most eldar units are undercosted. Naming off the few that aren't doesn't get you any pity points.

Eldar effectively end me in one turn, so it's time the shoe is on the other foot.

"Naming off the few that arent". Do you mean 3 out of 5 troop choices, almost all unique headquarter choices, 2 (if not 3) out of 4 of the generic ones, half if not more the tanks and fliers, half of the aspects (swooping hawks, banshees, shinning spears, dire avengers) is a few units that are not undercosted? Because wow, you have a high treshold for a "few", there's easily 2/3 of the codex there.

If you can beat easily a broken-ass SM force (battlecompany/superfriends) you can beat a generic eldar force that is not scatbike/warpsider/wraithknight spam. That doesn't give you pity points, it makes you look like a D-bag.

I look at SM without formation and I see grav-cav still is there, which can and has handily win tournaments, specially with white scars.

I didn't say beat it. I said fare better. I lose to battle company, but at least I don't get tabled like a chump.

I maintain compared to the garbage that straight marines get saddled with, many of those Eldar units are undercosted. I for one would love to have Eldar tanks, dire avengers, and HQ choices.

"I see grav-cav still is there"

Meh. Without libby conclave for invis, they are easy meat for the Eldar and Tau. Imperial durability is completely predicated on a psychic power everyone loathes. But there's no problem at all with Eldar and Tau. None at all.

Martel732 wrote:
Because Eldar have been the consistently best codex in 40K forever.

So you've only been playing since Eldar 6th and until the new SM psychic powers, is that correct ?

morgoth wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Because Eldar have been the consistently best codex in 40K forever.

So you've only been playing since Eldar 6th and until the new SM psychic powers, is that correct ?

I've been playing them since 2nd. And during the time period from 2nd-7th, Eldar are consistently the best list in the game. They were down in 3rd until they got a codex and in 5th (sorta, I still saw a LOT of arrogant space puppy players massacred en masse by scatterlasers). That's it.

Martel732 wrote:

morgoth wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Because Eldar have been the consistently best codex in 40K forever.

So you've only been playing since Eldar 6th and until the new SM psychic powers, is that correct ?

I've been playing them since 2nd. And during the time period from 2nd-7th, Eldar are consistently the best list in the game. They were down in 3rd until they got a codex and in 5th (sorta, I still saw a LOT of arrogant space puppy players massacred en masse by scatterlasers). That's it.

BULL. To begin with they got a codex in 4th ed and it was bad, it wasn't until 6th ed that they got this strong. But yeah, they were consistently the best list between 2nd and 7th... if you ignore 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th.

morgoth wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
There is an irony to Eldar players complaining the rules for the new Genestealer cults are overpowered and wrecking the game.

Am just getting started with a Black Legion army under the new rules. Another thing to think about is the ability to deep strike on turn one. Only Raptors can assault that turn, but Cyclopea Cabals that arrive get Shroud of Deceit and can have an 18 inch nova power.

This can be almost as powerful as a turn one assault. Used this army against an Eldar scatbike list over the holidays. Killed a Farseer and had the scatbikes shooting each other up in the first turn. Abaddon was assaulted turn 2, which actually worked against my opponent. Game ended turn 4.

There are some simple, obvious counters to this, but it will take time for pure gunline armies to compensate. I agree it is a major change for 7th edition, but certainly not something that wrecks the game.

Yes because all Eldar players are competitive players who deserve to be bashed by other competitive-ish combos.

You might want to use your anti scatbike combo against other armies to see how it fares... it may be another of these tailored anti-Eldar lists... how does it deal with the first turn Imperium of Friends charge ?

I imagine the free VotLW will ensure they do just fine against the Imperium.

The other thing being overlooked in this conversation is that it's no sure thing a turn one assault / deep strike army will actually arrive. For the Black Legion, only the warlord is guaranteed a first turn arrival, all other units arrive on 3+ (and that's before mishaps.) WEs depend on dice rolls for range. I understand Genestealer Cults rely on rolls for arriving from reserve as well.

Let's also remember Eldar have plenty of melee units that could be in their lists. It's only a matter of time before the competitive lists move away from pure gunlines to something more balanced that still kicks everyone in the teeth.

4th ed Eldar were bad? That codex was dominant. Unkillable skimmer tanks and all that.

Eldar were crazy good in 2nd. Don't even go there. They were only behind CSM and Tyranids.

Lord Kragan wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

morgoth wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Because Eldar have been the consistently best codex in 40K forever.

So you've only been playing since Eldar 6th and until the new SM psychic powers, is that correct ?

I've been playing them since 2nd. And during the time period from 2nd-7th, Eldar are consistently the best list in the game. They were down in 3rd until they got a codex and in 5th (sorta, I still saw a LOT of arrogant space puppy players massacred en masse by scatterlasers). That's it.

BULL. To begin with they got a codex in 4th ed and it was bad, it wasn't until 6th ed that they got this strong. But yeah, they were consistently the best list between 2nd and 7th... if you ignore 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th.

I remember the perspective that Eldar were bad in everything between 2nd and 5th, and the reality that skilled players knew what to do with them.

What makes Eldar lists seem so much better in the current edition is the fact it requires a lot less thinking to make them work. Just take psykers with Divination, add units with outrageous numbers of shots, and blow things away.