Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
A friend of mine is running space wolves. His list consists of.
Logan Grimnar riding in a chariot.
Bjorn in a squad of Dreadnought with hellfrost cannons
some Squads of Terminators with multimeltas and power claws as well as some Thunderwolves mounted calvary. As well as some beefed up Wulfen
How can a Necron reclamation legion with a royal court of Nemesor, Vargard, and Orikan combat them? In other words what do I add to my army. the goal is 2,500 points.
Good luck. Space puppies don't care about Gauss, and have the choppy to break your non-fearless units easily. The last SW vs Necron game I saw, was over by turn 3.
Double or even triple harvest with max Wraiths to tarpit. 340 x 3.
Double 3man squads of nebuloscope/shield vanes tomb blades for Objectives. If it's Maelstrom, you won't have many options, but if it's Dawn of War, then keep them safe until turn 4. 66 x 2.
Night Scythe your immortals and warriors with Zandrekh. 360 + 585.
If you must run the royal court, drop a harvest for it for the points.
Play the Objectives, keep your mobile units safe and their CC death machines locked in futile combat, and buckle your seat belt--it'll be a nail biter even when you're winning.
I have won with the above against the last 5 wolf star lists I've played against.
I run Space Wolves and one of my friends runs Necrons, all our matches are grinding affairs that end with the end game dice rolls.
Use numbers and terrain to play the game of attrition.
Spread basic warriors and scarabs nice and thin along your deployment edge so he has to go through them to get into your deployment zone unless he's deepstriking his termies nothing can jump that line, keep your ghost arks close and handy.
If you get first turn load up your Ghost Arks with the basic warriors to go deal with the Dreads, I assure you they very much DO give a damn about Gauss, drop the warriors where they're within charge range of the TWC and start shooting those Dreads, force the Thunderwolves and their Wulfen buddies to defend their big metal boxes.
Use the terrain and expendable units to force the TWC, Grimnar and the Wulfen to spend their time bogged down in 'meaningless' melee.
The Space Wolves player wants your throat, not your shoe laces, if you threaten the right things he will be forced to use his mobility to defend his own things rather than chasing what he wants to.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
Shoot with everything you can at the wulfen first and the thunderwolves second. Terminators, bjorn and infantries can be eaten quite easily by the wraiths, if you double the harvest even better. Avoid high strenght shots, against wulfen and thunderwolves it's the huge number of s4-6 shots the way to go, as their stormshield will reflect 2/3 of the hits. So shoot them with arks, warriors, immortals, tomb blades... if you kill or at least cripple those two units the wolves won't be a serious threat.
Space wolves are a very decent CC army, You fight them like you would fight other CC armies:
1.) Deploy in such a way as to make first turn charges impossible.
2.) Minimize the surface area of your forces via denied flank, impassible terrain, etc. Thunder wolves are huge by minimizing the amount that can get into B2B, will create a buffer around the charged unit that will stop other wolves from piling in.
3.) take charges on mooks, then counter charge with elites.
4.) Steal the charge if you can as long as the unit can survive a turn in melee combat.
As for specifics, wulfen have a 4+ armor, making them a natural target for immortals and tomb blades. The dreads will have a 24" range, meaning they have to get really close to shoot you, and moving at 6" per turn it's very easy to get the drop on them, either by advancing a unit before they can shoot, or deep striking something behind them to take advantage of that sweet rear 10 armor and the fact they are a squadron. The termies aren't much to worry about, being way overcost, but if they are giving you trouble your lych star should make short work of them. Wulfen and TWC can take wraiths, so be very careful in those engagements.
Final piece of advice, he has to get into melee in order to not get his ass shot off, this gives you control since you know what he is going to do. Don't offer him good targets, and punish him for failing charges.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
I'm gonna have to disagree with taking Ghost Arks, or any vehicles, really. He brought a bunch of Melta, right? Well, if you don't bring any vehicles, that's not going to such a great investment for him, now would it?
May want to consider bringing more guns. As soon as he gets anything into combat with your guys, that's the end of your shooting.
In fact, this is one of those instances where Silver Tide can shine.
Multiple units of 10 Warriors means you'll constantly be peppering him with Gauss while simultaneously making his shooting less effective (focusing shots into one of many Warrior squads is kind of a waste, but you kinda have to, as you can't really afford to just let them live. Lose/lose).
Two Wraith units to tie up his TWC would be a good idea. And then one Lych-star to act as a hammer to their anvil would be good, too.
May even want to consider a Night Scythe or two if he's not going to have any way to deal with it.
skoffs wrote: I'm gonna have to disagree with taking Ghost Arks, or any vehicles, really. He brought a bunch of Melta, right? Well, if you don't bring any vehicles, that's not going to such a great investment for him, now would it?
May want to consider bringing more guns. As soon as he gets anything into combat with your guys, that's the end of your shooting.
In fact, this is one of those instances where Silver Tide can shine.
Multiple units of 10 Warriors means you'll constantly be peppering him with Gauss while simultaneously making his shooting less effective (focusing shots into one of many Warrior squads is kind of a waste, but you kinda have to, as you can't really afford to just let them live. Lose/lose).
Two Wraith units to tie up his TWC would be a good idea. And then one Lych-star to act as a hammer to their anvil would be good, too.
May even want to consider a Night Scythe or two if he's not going to have any way to deal with it.
He has MultiMeltas on Terminators, for destroying the Monolith.
Terminators with MultiMeltas deepstrike Second turn at the earliest and afterwards are as mobile as your average rock.
If he chases the Ghost Arks with the Termies he's an idiot.
He doesn't have MultiMeltas on the Dreads, he got Helfrost. Two Ghost Arks will get the warriors where they need to be, beyond that they don't matter. If they survive they can keep peppering everything between combat while shuttling units to objectives.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
skoffs wrote: I'm gonna have to disagree with taking Ghost Arks, or any vehicles, really. He brought a bunch of Melta, right? Well, if you don't bring any vehicles, that's not going to such a great investment for him, now would it?
It depends, i run space wolves and typically take a melta and a combi melta in each of the three units of grey hunters that arrive by drop pods. That's not a huge amount of melta shots, and two of them don't even arrive in turn one, so the arks could still very useful IMHO. Also if the space wolves player has terminators of wolf guards with a lot of combi meltas he can screw one or two vehicles but these are not competitive units so his list wouldn't be particularly hard to beat.
Dakka Wolf wrote: He has MultiMeltas on Terminators, for destroying the Monolith.
... Monolith?
I don't remember seeing anything about a Monolith.
(if he's taking one, that changes things considerably).
In general, none of the Necron vehicles are very good anymore.
I wouldn't just recommend not taking them to make your opponent's Melta purchases less effective, I just wouldn't recommend taking them, period.
Yes, the Ghost Ark got a bit of a boost with the FAQ allowing occupants to fire at full BS, but that doesn't make it a great take. Decent, maybe (especially if taken in a CAD so it gets ObSec), but when you compare it to other things those points could go into, not so great.
The infantry in the Necron codex are what really shine.
Dedicate your points there to optimize your list.
skoffs wrote: I'm gonna have to disagree with taking Ghost Arks, or any vehicles, really. He brought a bunch of Melta, right? Well, if you don't bring any vehicles, that's not going to such a great investment for him, now would it?
It depends, i run space wolves and typically take a melta and a combi melta in each of the three units of grey hunters that arrive by drop pods. That's not a huge amount of melta shots, and two of them don't even arrive in turn one, so the arks could still very useful IMHO. Also if the space wolves player has terminators of wolf guards with a lot of combi meltas he can screw one or two vehicles but these are not competitive units so his list wouldn't be particularly hard to beat.
Just one point - Unless there's been a recent FAQ I don't know about Space Wolves round up, not down when it comes to Drop Pods.
Dakka Wolf wrote: He has MultiMeltas on Terminators, for destroying the Monolith.
... Monolith?
I don't remember seeing anything about a Monolith.
(if he's taking one, that changes things considerably).
In general, none of the Necron vehicles are very good anymore.
I wouldn't just recommend not taking them to make your opponent's Melta purchases less effective, I just wouldn't recommend taking them, period.
Yes, the Ghost Ark got a bit of a boost with the FAQ allowing occupants to fire at full BS, but that doesn't make it a great take. Decent, maybe (especially if taken in a CAD so it gets ObSec), but when you compare it to other things those points could go into, not so great.
The infantry in the Necron codex are what really shine.
Dedicate your points there to optimize your list.
The monolith comes standard with the reclamation legion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/05 19:48:52
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
Just one point - Unless there's been a recent FAQ I don't know about Space Wolves round up, not down when it comes to Drop Pods.
.
In the math when you have 0.5 but must convert it into a whole number (integer? sorry, i don't know the tecnichal name) you always round up, not down. 0.5 is 1, 1.5 is 2 excetera. I don't remember if it is explained in the space wolves codex but 100% sure that if you have 3 drop pods in your list two of them come in your first turn and the last one in the second turn.
Referencing an earlier comment, I don't see how SW care about gauss at all. Maybe on their dreads, but those are there to be distraction carnifexes anyway while the real units massacre everything touch. Even Necrons!
Referencing an earlier comment, I don't see how SW care about gauss at all. Maybe on their dreads, but those are there to be distraction carnifexes anyway while the real units massacre everything touch. Even Necrons!
Dreads are there for Helfrost.
Helfrost forces a strength test before re-animation protocals meaning models might be removed before the protocals kick in
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/05 21:21:15
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
Everybody cares about gauss if you bring enough of it, even a wraith knight or a baneblade. There is also ap 4/3/2 flavors of gauss to satisfy all shapes and sizes.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
skoffs wrote: I'm gonna have to disagree with taking Ghost Arks, or any vehicles, really. He brought a bunch of Melta, right? Well, if you don't bring any vehicles, that's not going to such a great investment for him, now would it?
It depends, i run space wolves and typically take a melta and a combi melta in each of the three units of grey hunters that arrive by drop pods. That's not a huge amount of melta shots, and two of them don't even arrive in turn one, so the arks could still very useful IMHO. Also if the space wolves player has terminators of wolf guards with a lot of combi meltas he can screw one or two vehicles but these are not competitive units so his list wouldn't be particularly hard to beat.
Just one point - Unless there's been a recent FAQ I don't know about Space Wolves round up, not down when it comes to Drop Pods.
Dakka Wolf wrote: He has MultiMeltas on Terminators, for destroying the Monolith.
... Monolith?
I don't remember seeing anything about a Monolith.
(if he's taking one, that changes things considerably).
In general, none of the Necron vehicles are very good anymore.
I wouldn't just recommend not taking them to make your opponent's Melta purchases less effective, I just wouldn't recommend taking them, period.
Yes, the Ghost Ark got a bit of a boost with the FAQ allowing occupants to fire at full BS, but that doesn't make it a great take. Decent, maybe (especially if taken in a CAD so it gets ObSec), but when you compare it to other things those points could go into, not so great.
The infantry in the Necron codex are what really shine.
Dedicate your points there to optimize your list.
The monolith comes standard with the reclamation legion.
Actually, I'm pretty sure monoliths are a 0-1 choice. I don't think you have to take one.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
skoffs wrote: I'm gonna have to disagree with taking Ghost Arks, or any vehicles, really. He brought a bunch of Melta, right? Well, if you don't bring any vehicles, that's not going to such a great investment for him, now would it?
It depends, i run space wolves and typically take a melta and a combi melta in each of the three units of grey hunters that arrive by drop pods. That's not a huge amount of melta shots, and two of them don't even arrive in turn one, so the arks could still very useful IMHO. Also if the space wolves player has terminators of wolf guards with a lot of combi meltas he can screw one or two vehicles but these are not competitive units so his list wouldn't be particularly hard to beat.
Just one point - Unless there's been a recent FAQ I don't know about Space Wolves round up, not down when it comes to Drop Pods.
Dakka Wolf wrote: He has MultiMeltas on Terminators, for destroying the Monolith.
... Monolith?
I don't remember seeing anything about a Monolith.
(if he's taking one, that changes things considerably).
In general, none of the Necron vehicles are very good anymore.
I wouldn't just recommend not taking them to make your opponent's Melta purchases less effective, I just wouldn't recommend taking them, period.
Yes, the Ghost Ark got a bit of a boost with the FAQ allowing occupants to fire at full BS, but that doesn't make it a great take. Decent, maybe (especially if taken in a CAD so it gets ObSec), but when you compare it to other things those points could go into, not so great.
The infantry in the Necron codex are what really shine.
Dedicate your points there to optimize your list.
The monolith comes standard with the reclamation legion.
Actually, I'm pretty sure monoliths are a 0-1 choice. I don't think you have to take one.
0-1 for the Core in a Decurion.
0-2 for he Living Tomb formation also.
I would think a destroyer cult would do pretty well, mass s 5 ap 3 shots and jump shoot jump can give an extra turn or so before melee happens
It's easy to assume that people arguing an interpretation you disagree with are just looking for an advantage for themselves... But it's quite often not the case.
Dakka Wolf wrote: The monolith comes standard with the reclamation legion.
...
Have you been giving advice this whole time without knowing what the Decurion/Reclamation Legion consist of?
Guess so.
They always seem to be there whenever I play any opponent running the legion - going to use the A-word - Considering they're always there but never last the match I assumed they didn't have a choice in the matter, like Wolf Scouts in the Deathwolves.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
Dakka Wolf wrote: The monolith comes standard with the reclamation legion.
...
Have you been giving advice this whole time without knowing what the Decurion/Reclamation Legion consist of?
Guess so.
They always seem to be there whenever I play any opponent running the legion - going to use the A-word - Considering they're always there but never last the match I assumed they didn't have a choice in the matter, like Wolf Scouts in the Deathwolves.
Actually kind of surprising you're encountering them so often you thought they were required. They're generally considered pretty mediocre (like I said above, none of the Necron vehicles are very "good".)
Wraiths in a Harvest formation, Decurion, are a perfect tarpit unit even if the enemy has S10 weapons in cc.
They can hold their own vs. TWC and Wulfen.
In the meantime you could go for the enemy's throat.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Dakka Wolf wrote: The monolith comes standard with the reclamation legion.
...
Have you been giving advice this whole time without knowing what the Decurion/Reclamation Legion consist of?
Guess so.
They always seem to be there whenever I play any opponent running the legion - going to use the A-word - Considering they're always there but never last the match I assumed they didn't have a choice in the matter, like Wolf Scouts in the Deathwolves.
Actually kind of surprising you're encountering them so often you thought they were required. They're generally considered pretty mediocre (like I said above, none of the Necron vehicles are very "good".)
Well, they are the best looking and most iconic necron vehicle.
I'm curious to know how many of them played necrons before the ward dex.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
~4100
~1660
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."