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Our flgs has seen a lot of wraithknight spam and imp knight spams.. (not by me) so for this month's tournament, he limited gargantuan and super heavies to 0-1..

A few players gave thousand sons there and bring them.. I used a Jetbike spam wraith host and got damn near tabled turn 2 without doing really anything to him. He had like 20 psychic dice and apparently magnus can't parrel.. Basically his entire army had invisibility and re rolling 1s to 5s..

Any way, is there any way I can win without more wraithknight?

How many units had invis?

He only brought 4 total units, one came in from reserve and we're useless, but his one unit that he moved had in it. I guess you misspoke, just his one unit has it, with 3 pyskers and.. Idk some kind of dog creatures

Magnus can't cast invisibility, he only knows the Tzeentch and Change disciplines and a model can only manifest a power once per turn with only a few exceptions. I'm curious to known how he was able to roll invisibility so many times with such few psykers.

Yeah, everything about this story is sounding like "players not knowing the new rules very well"

Side note, even if you wanted to bring another WK, it would be a bad idea. Magnus knows 2 powers that are shooting D, plus a power that can control your unit to shoot with. Having multiple WKs is giving Magnus an easy way to earn his points back.

Also T-sons have AP3 bolters. If you were taking Jetbikes and a Wraithhost than I am not surprised you lost. Taking a Wraithhost means you have few models and the AP3 bolters at the very least made your Jetbikes Jink. Even needing 6's to wound the WratihGuard is good odds when they don't get any save.

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Ravingbantha wrote:
Magnus can't cast invisibility, he only knows the Tzeentch and Change disciplines and a model can only manifest a power once per turn with only a few exceptions. I'm curious to known how he was able to roll invisibility so many times with such few psykers.

That's what I'm trying to figure out here.

Ravingbantha wrote:
Magnus can't cast invisibility, he only knows the Tzeentch and Change disciplines and a model can only manifest a power once per turn with only a few exceptions. I'm curious to known how he was able to roll invisibility so many times with such few psykers.

Some people believe that Magnus can roll 5 powers in addition to knowing all of the Tzeentch and Change powers since he is a mastery level 5 psyker. (This is just what I've heard people say, I don't think thats the intention personally). But yes even if he could get it, he can only cast it once. So it seems like people here didn't read the rules all that well.

Yeah, that is really confusing because
A) Magnus doesn't roll powers, he has a list of specific power he has access to and
B) even if he did get 5 rolls on top of that, "Telepathy" isn't a discipline listed in his rules, and therefore is doubly not available to him

Not reading the rules indeed.

 M0ff3l wrote:

Ravingbantha wrote:
Magnus can't cast invisibility, he only knows the Tzeentch and Change disciplines and a model can only manifest a power once per turn with only a few exceptions. I'm curious to known how he was able to roll invisibility so many times with such few psykers.

Some people believe that Magnus can roll 5 powers in addition to knowing all of the Tzeentch and Change powers since he is a mastery level 5 psyker. (This is just what I've heard people say, I don't think thats the intention personally). But yes even if he could get it, he can only cast it once. So it seems like people here didn't read the rules all that well.

The problem with that line of thought is that there is nothing in his rules that says where he can generate his powers from, only that he knowns all Tzeentch and Change powers. All other psykers entries in both books he is in, state where they can generate powers from, but not magnus.

Ravingbantha wrote:

 M0ff3l wrote:

Ravingbantha wrote:
Magnus can't cast invisibility, he only knows the Tzeentch and Change disciplines and a model can only manifest a power once per turn with only a few exceptions. I'm curious to known how he was able to roll invisibility so many times with such few psykers.

Some people believe that Magnus can roll 5 powers in addition to knowing all of the Tzeentch and Change powers since he is a mastery level 5 psyker. (This is just what I've heard people say, I don't think thats the intention personally). But yes even if he could get it, he can only cast it once. So it seems like people here didn't read the rules all that well.

The problem with that line of thought is that there is nothing in his rules that says where he can generate his powers from, only that he knowns all Tzeentch and Change powers. All other psykers entries in both books he is in, state where they can generate powers from, but not magnus.

However that line of thought is supported by the rules. See the second paragraph under 'Generating Psychic Powers' (pg. 23, main rulebook). The only difference is that they stated that Magnus knows all of the Tzeentch and Change powers instead of listing them all individually.

 Ghaz wrote:

Ravingbantha wrote:

 M0ff3l wrote:

Ravingbantha wrote:
Magnus can't cast invisibility, he only knows the Tzeentch and Change disciplines and a model can only manifest a power once per turn with only a few exceptions. I'm curious to known how he was able to roll invisibility so many times with such few psykers.

Some people believe that Magnus can roll 5 powers in addition to knowing all of the Tzeentch and Change powers since he is a mastery level 5 psyker. (This is just what I've heard people say, I don't think thats the intention personally). But yes even if he could get it, he can only cast it once. So it seems like people here didn't read the rules all that well.

The problem with that line of thought is that there is nothing in his rules that says where he can generate his powers from, only that he knowns all Tzeentch and Change powers. All other psykers entries in both books he is in, state where they can generate powers from, but not magnus.

However that line of thought is supported by the rules. See the second paragraph under 'Generating Psychic Powers' (pg. 23, main rulebook). The only difference is that they stated that Magnus knows all of the Tzeentch and Change powers instead of listing them all individually.

except that line of though does not fall in line with the current way the rules are being released. If you look at the other psykers in the same book, they have lists saying what schools they can generate powers from. This would override the original rulebookm many of the recently released Codexs have done this very thing, Eldar: Craftworlds, Orks, Astra Militarium, Space Marines (all varients and updates), and Harliquins (I think I listed them all), show a pattern of listing what disciplines a psyker can choose from. This shows an established pattern of updating information for psychic rules. Under the Magnus listing, there is nothing saying anything about any other disciplines other than Tzeentch and change. If someone is going to make the case that Magnus can generate powers from any discipline simply because it does not say otherwise, then one could make that argument for any psyker. All the modern codexs I listed say what disciplines they can generate from, but don't say they can't generate from other disciplines or that they must ONLY generate from those disciplines. In fact, we could apply this logic all over the place, Space Marine chapter masters don't have any rules about equipping heavy weapons, yet other marines can can take these weapons, so shall we assume that we can give a chapter master a missile launcher? Heck, while we are at it, why not give a chapter master some levels as a psyker? I mean, there's no listing there for it under his rules, but we know it costs 25pts a level and nothing says he can't take levels.

Again, read the page I referenced in the main rulebook. It explains the difference between units with set psychic powers (Magnus) and those who can choose which psychic disciplines they can choose to generate their powers from (all of the other psykers in the Wrath of Magnus book).

EDIT: It looks like the quotes may have gotten crossed in my original post, so to clarify Magnus does NOT 'generate' psychic powers. He knows exactly those listed in his datasheet (Gaze of Magnus, the six powers in the Discipline of Tzeentch and the four powers in the Discipline of Change) and no more.

 Ghaz wrote:
Again, read the page I referenced in the main rulebook. It explains the difference between units with set psychic powers (Magnus) and those who can choose which psychic disciplines they can choose to generate their powers from (all of the other psykers in the Wrath of Magnus book).

EDIT: It looks like the quotes may have gotten crossed in my original post, so to clarify Magnus does NOT 'generate' psychic powers. He knows exactly those listed in his datasheet (Gaze of Magnus, the six powers in the Discipline of Tzeentch and the four powers in the Discipline of Change) and no more.

I believe the part you are referring to is the one that says (correct me if I am worng, the digital copy I have is set up a bit differently)

"In some Army List Entries, a Psyker will have one of more specific psychic powers listed - where this is the case, it will be clearly states. These Psykers always start the game with those psychic powers. Otherwise, A Psyker generates random psychic powers from amongst the psychic disciplines known to him.

To randomly generate a psychic power, first choose one of the psychic disciplines known to that Psyker."

Every Psyker in the game has a list of Disciples they can pull from, Mangus' entry only lists the Change and Tzeentch discipline. It says nothing about any other discipline entry, only that he knows all those powers. It doesn't say he can generate powers from any list, nor is there anything in the rulebook that allows this option. The rulebook states "To randomly generate a psychic power, first choose one of the psychic disciplines known to that Psyker"[i]. so how can Magnus generate powers from a discipline that is not listed in his entry?

You two are so concerned with being right, you don't seem to realize that you're agreeing with each other.

 EnTyme wrote:
You two are so concerned with being right, you don't seem to realize that you're agreeing with each other.

According to you, some of us can debate a topic without it devolving into an argument. Just because two people have the same point of view on an issue, that does not mean they both have a proper counterpoint for those who disagree with them. By discussing a topic with someone who shares the same point of view as you do, you are able to share new ways of looking at the issue and thus find new ways to debate the issue with those who do not agree with either of you.

Magnus COULD generate form Malefic as it does not need a unit entry to do so. All psykers except grey knights and demons can generate from malefic and sanctic. Its just they peril on any double. This is listed in the BRB and has yet to be overturned.

Im not saying Magnus CAN. And I dont think he can nor do I think it was GW's intent to have him generate powers outside of Tz and change. But I had to bring this rule to light.

Table wrote:
Magnus COULD generate form Malefic as it does not need a unit entry to do so. All psykers except grey knights and demons can generate from malefic and sanctic. Its just they peril on any double. This is listed in the BRB and has yet to be overturned.

Im not saying Magnus CAN. And I dont think he can nor do I think it was GW's intent to have him generate powers outside of Tz and change. But I had to bring this rule to light.

Um...NO. That isn't what the BRB says at all. BRB says that if a Psyker generates random powers, it may do so from either Daemonology unless otherwise stated. (see Nids, GKs & Daemons)
Magnus DOES NOT generate random powers, he has a set list of powers. It is the same reason that Belakor cannot use Malefic

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 Galef wrote:

Table wrote:
Magnus COULD generate form Malefic as it does not need a unit entry to do so. All psykers except grey knights and demons can generate from malefic and sanctic. Its just they peril on any double. This is listed in the BRB and has yet to be overturned.

Im not saying Magnus CAN. And I dont think he can nor do I think it was GW's intent to have him generate powers outside of Tz and change. But I had to bring this rule to light.

Um...NO. That isn't what the BRB says at all. BRB says that if a Psyker generates random powers, it may do so from either Daemonology unless otherwise stated. (see Nids, GKs & Daemons)
Magnus DOES NOT generate random powers, he has a set list of powers. It is the same reason that Belakor cannot use Malefic

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I agree that Magnus cannot generate powers as listed above. I will go re-read the BRB right away.

Edit: I dont actually need to re-read it as that was not the point I was making.

The point I bring up is that you cannot say that Magnus cannot generate random powers BECAUSE he has no disps listed. He does not need listed Disps to generate malific. He cannot generate Sanctic due to his Demon status. If Magnus cannot generate random powers it is not because he does not have disp's listed. It has to be from another rule. Im fairly certain. Could be wrong. But thats my take on this for the moment.

Double Edit. Think of a world where magnus can generate cursed earth himself instead of needing an attending herald.

Psykers need to have the word "generate" in their rules to be eligible to use Malefic. Every single Psyker that rolls powers randomly has the phrase "generates powers from..."
The BRB does not give permission for all Psykers to use Malefic. It allows only Psykers that "generate" powers

Magnus & Belakor "know" certain powers. THAT is why they don't generate powers...because they literally do not "generate" powers.
No generation = no Malefic. No room for grey here.

I am pretty sure that is intentional too. Otherwise Magnus would almost be guaranteed to get Curse Earth. It's bad enough that he can summon a chariot reliably on 4 dice, imagine if he had Incursion & Summoning too.

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