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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/07 23:36:45
Subject: tau ruling help
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Been Around the Block
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i have a friend who is a big tau player. and every time i play him i get my ass handed to me. to the point by turn 2/3 i just give up coz there no way to win regards if it kill points or objectives
im at the point where the rules are just sounds so BS that i want give up on my army/the game it self from time to time.
anyway can some confirm some stuff....
1st off is the overwatch support. not only is this annoying but can it really have more then one squad join in? and why can any squad join in if a building is blocking the view of surport. it seem annoying which for a KDK player make my army pointless......
2nd is unit like battle suits/ riptides have like 4 or more weapons to fire with out any penalty and being able to turn a missile in to a D weapon( this i know is ture) but to be able to do that any fire everything else is annoying to the point that if i don't go 1st half my army is taken out 1st turn. last game my Forgefiend got taken out from one riptide before i can even move it...
3rd. everthing in the army gets a cover save in the open and feel no pain... really i mean come on....
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/08 01:03:03
Subject: tau ruling help
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
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1st: Yes, more than one squad can join in. In the rules it says for Supporting Fire "all friendly models in units withing 6" of the charging unit's target can choose to fire". However, they still need LOS and can only fire overwatch once per assault phase.
2nd: The only battlesuit with more than two weapons is the Stormsurge, and can fire them all because of it's status as a Gargantuan Monstrous Creature. All other battlesuits have Multitrackers that let them fire more than one weapon in each shooting phase.
3rd: the cover save thing is not in the codex, unless they are all vehicles with Disruption Pods, and the FNP is only from an Ethereal withing 12" and then it's a 6+.
I hope this helps a little!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/08 01:04:02
Subject: tau ruling help
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
Ankh Morpork
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justin12270 wrote:1st off is the overwatch support. not only is this annoying but can it really have more then one squad join in? and why can any squad join in if a building is blocking the view of surport. it seem annoying which for a KDK player make my army pointless......
Supporting Fire does models in units within 6" of the charging unit's target to fire Overwatch as if they were the unit being charged, but remember that:
"An Overwatch attack is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy’s Assault phase) and uses all the normal rules for range, line of sight, cover saves and so on."
That's a direct quote from the Overwatch rules, so your opponent could not fire through a building if that building were blocking line of sight.
2nd is unit like battle suits/ riptides have like 4 or more weapons to fire with out any penalty and being able to turn a missile in to a D weapon( this i know is ture) but to be able to do that any fire everything else is annoying to the point that if i don't go 1st half my army is taken out 1st turn. last game my Forgefiend got taken out from one riptide before i can even move it...
Crisis and Broadside Battlesuits are a type of Infantry, which can fire one weapon in the Shooting phase. Riptides are Monstrous Creatures which may fire two weapons in the Shooting phase. Tau Battlesuits have Multi-trackers which allow them to fire one more weapon than is normal, so Crisis and Broadsides Battlesuits can only fire two, while Riptides can fire three.
3rd. everthing in the army gets a cover save in the open and feel no pain... really i mean come on....
Ask your opponent to show you the rule which allows this. I can think of a situation in which the Feel No Pain could be possible, but it's a simple matter of killing the Ethereal.
It sounds to me like you're not familiar with your opponent's army and its rules, and have not chosen to ask him to show you where the rules say he may use them. If your opponent refuses to tell you then you're better off simply packing up your models and leaving.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/08 09:29:12
Subject: tau ruling help
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Been Around the Block
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AUGmaniac wrote:1st: Yes, more than one squad can join in. In the rules it says for Supporting Fire "all friendly models in units withing 6" of the charging unit's target can choose to fire". However, they still need LOS and can only fire overwatch once per assault phase.
2nd: The only battlesuit with more than two weapons is the Stormsurge, and can fire them all because of it's status as a Gargantuan Monstrous Creature. All other battlesuits have Multitrackers that let them fire more than one weapon in each shooting phase.
3rd: the cover save thing is not in the codex, unless they are all vehicles with Disruption Pods, and the FNP is only from an Ethereal withing 12" and then it's a 6+.
I hope this helps a little!
Mr. Shine wrote:justin12270 wrote:1st off is the overwatch support. not only is this annoying but can it really have more then one squad join in? and why can any squad join in if a building is blocking the view of surport. it seem annoying which for a KDK player make my army pointless......
Supporting Fire does models in units within 6" of the charging unit's target to fire Overwatch as if they were the unit being charged, but remember that:
"An Overwatch attack is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy’s Assault phase) and uses all the normal rules for range, line of sight, cover saves and so on."
That's a direct quote from the Overwatch rules, so your opponent could not fire through a building if that building were blocking line of sight.
2nd is unit like battle suits/ riptides have like 4 or more weapons to fire with out any penalty and being able to turn a missile in to a D weapon( this i know is ture) but to be able to do that any fire everything else is annoying to the point that if i don't go 1st half my army is taken out 1st turn. last game my Forgefiend got taken out from one riptide before i can even move it...
Crisis and Broadside Battlesuits are a type of Infantry, which can fire one weapon in the Shooting phase. Riptides are Monstrous Creatures which may fire two weapons in the Shooting phase. Tau Battlesuits have Multi-trackers which allow them to fire one more weapon than is normal, so Crisis and Broadsides Battlesuits can only fire two, while Riptides can fire three.
3rd. everthing in the army gets a cover save in the open and feel no pain... really i mean come on....
Ask your opponent to show you the rule which allows this. I can think of a situation in which the Feel No Pain could be possible, but it's a simple matter of killing the Ethereal.
It sounds to me like you're not familiar with your opponent's army and its rules, and have not chosen to ask him to show you where the rules say he may use them. If your opponent refuses to tell you then you're better off simply packing up your models and leaving.
Thanks guys. ill keep all this in mind next game and pull him up on it. normaly i do try and pull this stuff up and ask for the codex. but he argues some times and has convinced my other friend all this so he takes his side.
like i knew hat the tau army was good and stuff. but im at the point where its every time i vs him. he has a new rule so i really wanted to find out.
so i might give it a few more games. if it to much of a one sided match i might either give up the game for awhile and hope that fall of cadia give me a bit of a boost of some kind or find new friends :(
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/08 10:24:01
Subject: tau ruling help
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Ragin' Ork Dreadnought
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Something worth trying, if you're having trouble getting assaults: Try and time it, so you're charging with as much of your army as possible on the same turn. Charging with little chunks, one turn after another, lets him focus his overwatch and pick you off one unit at a time. If you start by charging all your weak units, though, and follow up in the same turn with your stronger stuff, you can burn out his overwatches and cause a lot more damage.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/08 10:43:45
Subject: tau ruling help
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Fireknife Shas'el
Lisbon, Portugal
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I guess he's giving his battlesuits Stimulant Injectors, which gives FnP.
Now, cover in the open? Only if he's using a Ghostkeel Wing, which is a formation.
===
Ask your fella if he could tone down his list a bit. Less suits, more infantry and vehicles.
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AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / Fallout Factions: BoS / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion: CIS / WWX: Union
Unit1126PLL wrote:"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"
Shadenuat wrote:Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/08 16:48:07
Subject: tau ruling help
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I think asking him to tone down the army is a good idea , if he keeps winning
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/09 05:42:37
Subject: tau ruling help
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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On a side note, how much terrain is on your table? On any table you want at least two pieces that block line of sight, as well as cover spread around the rest of the board.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/09 06:08:39
Subject: tau ruling help
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Been Around the Block
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kingbobbito wrote:On a side note, how much terrain is on your table? On any table you want at least two pieces that block line of sight, as well as cover spread around the rest of the board.
there was plenty of terrain. but even so it didnt help much. anything in cover was more then dead by turn 2
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/09 06:23:35
Subject: tau ruling help
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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justin12270 wrote: kingbobbito wrote:On a side note, how much terrain is on your table? On any table you want at least two pieces that block line of sight, as well as cover spread around the rest of the board.
there was plenty of terrain. but even so it didnt help much. anything in cover was more then dead by turn 2
Terrain isn't just about getting cover saves, it should also be blocking line of sight so that it can't get shot period
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/09 07:23:43
Subject: tau ruling help
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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CrownAxe wrote:justin12270 wrote: kingbobbito wrote:On a side note, how much terrain is on your table? On any table you want at least two pieces that block line of sight, as well as cover spread around the rest of the board.
there was plenty of terrain. but even so it didnt help much. anything in cover was more then dead by turn 2
Terrain isn't just about getting cover saves, it should also be blocking line of sight so that it can't get shot period
^^^This. A good table should have terrain that makes it impossible to shoot everything on the table. Having a couple low ruins or some trees is still planet bowling ball.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/09 14:10:01
Subject: tau ruling help
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Stealthy Kroot Stalker
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Ok so question 1 is answered fully.
Question 2 - The only model that can turn missiles into D shots is a stormsurge (requires the unit it is targeting to have a markerlight hit it) which can fire all of its weapons because it is a GMC.
Question 3 - There is no upgrade for cover but some suits have stealth and shrouded as a rule (stealth suits and ghostkeel) Riptides can have a suit upgrade that gives it FnP and stormsurge gets it from being GMC. Ethereal also has a mini FnP buff but it is a short range.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/10 21:38:03
Subject: tau ruling help
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Sneaky Sniper Drone
Clemson SC
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Sounds like the player is being a bit of a bully about this and I'm sorry.
One thing you can try is swapping armies for a game to understand it better, or ask to borrow the codex.
Some players I know don't even write lists down, and this bugs the crap out of me. You're a newer player against him, it shouldn't be out of his way or means to provide you a *readable* army list, one you can review either before or after the game, etc. Some won't even show up with their rulebook. Some do both!
As for FNP, the wargear is a Stimulant Injector and its relatively expensive, so if he's fielding this on all his legal options, it should really dig in to the size of his army. Stealth Suits and Ghostkeels have Stealth/Shrouded which provides cover save boosts (even in the open, but it starts from 6+, so a Stealth Suit would have 4+ cover in the open with both Stealth and Shrouded, and the Keel only if both it's Stealth Drones are intact). Vehicles can get a cover save in the open using a Disruption Pod upgrade, which is also not 'free' in terms of points. Breacher Firewarriors can take a guardian drone which gives them an invuln save as long as the drone is alive. Note that a Riptide is very limited in how many wargear upgrades it can take at one time, never gets stealth, and resolves a wound when it rolls a 1 on its reactor special rule (declared every turn).
The Ethereal can cast a power/rule which gives a short range 6+ FNP but this should be clearly declared every turn it is used.
As for terrain unless its fixed you should both agree on the terrain before the game: a common method is to split pieces between yourselves and alternate placing them until you're both happy. Only then do you roll to determine deployment zones. There should be plenty of terrain where he isn't alpha-striking your whole army in turn 1-2, and just make sure you have good LOS to everything in your deployment zone because stealth suits infiltrate (and I love doing it). normaly i do try and pull this stuff up and ask for the codex. but he argues some times and has convinced my other friend all this so he takes his side.
like i knew hat the tau army was good and stuff. but im at the point where its every time i vs him. he has a new rule so i really wanted to find out.
This is just unsportsmanlike. If you're unfamiliar with his army and he's the experienced player nobody is done any favors when one less player is discouraged from playing the game. Tau can be kinda complicated sometimes he should give you every opportunity to absorb it. He should be winning on the table, not in the books. I think he can pick up that Nintendo DS game where you yell OBJECTION! and stuff if he wants to play a game about lawyers
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/10 21:38:36
3000 pts
>1000 pts
:tyranid: <1500 pts
How do I own these?:
~2000 pts
~1000 pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/11 02:09:34
Subject: tau ruling help
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Fixture of Dakka
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The answer is quite simple. A person can't use the rule unless he can show you that it's a legal move to do. So he will have to show you his codex. No scans, actual book unless you guys are ok with scans. Scans can be doctored.
So have him show you the rule in his codex. If he can "find" it, then he can't use it. Quite simple and not a big deal to do so. If an issue is being made I would say it's cheating then.
Never no harm in seeing how a rule works in the actual codex or supplement book anyone is using.
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Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong". |
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