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Hey all,

I tried my hand at oil washes and somehow screwed it up royally. When I got to the clean up step the mineral spirits went through the wash, varnish, and paint underneath.

Any advice on what I did wrong or what to try?

My steps:

1) Prime + basecoat
2) Krylon clear coat
3) Mig Oil Wash
4) Gamsol odorless mineral spirits clean up

It is the last step that got me. Not sure if that specific OMS doesn't work well with acrylics but I thought they all did basically the same thing. Perhaps I needed more varnish?

Thanks.

Could be a few things. How long did you wait for the clear to cure before applying the oil? Is that a gloss varnish or a matte?

If the varnish hasn't had enough time to cure (depends on the varnish, but could be several days) its ability to resist the solvents won't be great.

And matte/satin varnishes have a tendency to soak up the solvent which in turn means the solvent will more easily strip them, that's part of the reason people recommend gloss varnishes for oil washes.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
If the varnish hasn't had enough time to cure (depends on the varnish, but could be several days) its ability to resist the solvents won't be great.

This. You must let the acrylics cure completely before doing the oil wash or the combination of solvents and friction from the brush (assuming you're manipulating the wash after you apply it) will start to rub off the acrylic layers. It's not enough to wait for the paint to be dry to the touch, at that point it's still undergoing the chemical reactions that set everything securely into place. Make sure you're waiting several days at least between the last acrylic layer and your first oils (and then another several days before you even think about touching the model so you don't destroy the oil layer).

Lots of factors in play.

I generally find 24 hours cure is enough for gloss to work with my oils. I use future (klear) for this. Two to three thin coats to get it nice and shiny.

I use Daler-Rowney low odour thinners to dilute the oils. These seem to be fairly gentle. I found white spirit and similar to be a bit too harsh.

When cleaning up, BE GENTLE.

Peregrine wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
If the varnish hasn't had enough time to cure (depends on the varnish, but could be several days) its ability to resist the solvents won't be great.

This. You must let the acrylics cure completely before doing the oil wash or the combination of solvents and friction from the brush (assuming you're manipulating the wash after you apply it) will start to rub off the acrylic layers. It's not enough to wait for the paint to be dry to the touch, at that point it's still undergoing the chemical reactions that set everything securely into place. Make sure you're waiting several days at least between the last acrylic layer and your first oils (and then another several days before you even think about touching the model so you don't destroy the oil layer).

I gave it 12+ hours overnight. I heard maybe spray varnishes are bad because they contain strong solvents?

As for the primer/basecoat it was considerably less. So I guess maybe try stretching out the process. Thanks!

AllSeeingSkink wrote:Could be a few things. How long did you wait for the clear to cure before applying the oil? Is that a gloss varnish or a matte?

If the varnish hasn't had enough time to cure (depends on the varnish, but could be several days) its ability to resist the solvents won't be great.

And matte/satin varnishes have a tendency to soak up the solvent which in turn means the solvent will more easily strip them, that's part of the reason people recommend gloss varnishes for oil washes.

I used a gloss acrylic based -- Krylon crystal clear. It is a spray can. I've read maybe it is bad to use because it is solvent based and can alter paints. I also let it cure for 12+ hours. Maybe this wasn't enough time?

winterdyne wrote:Lots of factors in play.

I generally find 24 hours cure is enough for gloss to work with my oils. I use future (klear) for this. Two to three thin coats to get it nice and shiny.

I use Daler-Rowney low odour thinners to dilute the oils. These seem to be fairly gentle. I found white spirit and similar to be a bit too harsh.

When cleaning up, BE GENTLE.

Thanks. From what I'm reading I need to leave more time in between base/priming + varnish + wash/clean up. I tried to wait a few hours between the painting then let the varnish cure over night but perhaps it wasn't enough.

Glad to know it wasn't the spirits I used at least. The low odour stuff is a life saver... even though I know I still need ventilation as it doesn't remove the bad stuff... well it sure makes it bearable.

Solvent in the rattle can varnish won't be a problem if you let it cure long enough.***

Try just leaving a test piece for a few days after varnishing before oil washing it and see if it works better.

I usually use Tamiya gloss varnish and usually wait 2 days before trying to attack it with an oil wash.

Most paints (especially glosses) gradually get stronger/harder over a long period, like, I'm talking weeks and months. You notice it if you ever try and polish it, trying to polish a paint a day or two after you spray it is a fruitless exercise (even though it might feel dry to the touch), but wait a month or two or three and THEN polish it and it'll be a world of difference.

You don't need to wait months before applying your oil wash, but be aware that every day you wait before applying the oil gives the varnish more time to harden.

You can also try different solvents for your clean up instead of mineral spirits, some are gentler than others, without actually testing all the ones available to you I wouldn't be able to say which is going to be best, but I've tried half a dozen different solvents that are able to clean up oils but attack the underlying acrylics by different amounts.





*** The only time I've ever had a problem with solvents in a varnish is for some reason Gunze acrylics react with some varnishes if you don't wait several weeks for the Gunze acrylics to properly cure before applying the varnish (or simply use a Tamiya/Gunze varnish which seem to not attack the Gunze acrylics). But that's just a very specific scenario and unlikely to be the problem you're having.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Solvent in the rattle can varnish won't be a problem if you let it cure long enough.***

Try just leaving a test piece for a few days after varnishing before oil washing it and see if it works better.

Thanks for this info. I had no idea it took so long for gloss varnishes to harden or that the solvents wouldn't be an issue that way. Should I repeat the entire process again on the same ruined model with more time in between for drying or will I have to use a new miniature?

I've googled all over and there just aren't many great resources that cover troubleshooting when things go wrong. There are plenty tutorials out there but none that even mentioned varnish dry times from a spray can.

If you have any other tips I'd love to hear them. I'm trying to up my painting skills but I don't really want to spend the money on an airbrush+compressor+booth at the moment. I was hoping the oil wash would be a step in the right direction. What do you think of making your own washes? The Mig premixed stuff has a bit too strong of an odor for me but I hear it is a great product.

Thanks again. Looking forward to take two.

I would test Krylon with clear plastic sprue with 24h. Some responses to this product are little bit downgrading: https://www.michaels.com/krylon-acrylic-crystal-clear/10520106.html
I would rather use acrylic varnish (had no such problems with them). I'm also using oil washes without varnishes applied.

 hunter_sk wrote:
I would test Krylon with clear plastic sprue with 24h. Some responses to this product are little bit downgrading: https://www.michaels.com/krylon-acrylic-crystal-clear/10520106.html
I would rather use acrylic varnish (had no such problems with them). I'm also using oil washes without varnishes applied.

Thanks... I'll find something new to test the spray on.

That Krylon Crystal Clear is an acrylic varnish. It is the only spray one I could find.. I heard you have to use acrylic varnishes with enamel/oil washes and not the Testor's lacquer based ones.

I'll give it another go and then reconsider my options. There has to be a way of getting a good varnish on there without an airrush!

So I may sound dumb for asking, but what are y'all even talking about? What are you trying to achieve with this "oil wash"?

 Drummernathan wrote:
So I may sound dumb for asking, but what are y'all even talking about? What are you trying to achieve with this "oil wash"?

The same kind of effects you get with acrylic washes (like GW makes): shading, tinting, various weathering effects, etc. There are two main differences with oil washes:

1) They take much longer to dry (up to several days) so you have a lot of time to adjust the effect. Too heavy a wash? Wipe it off and try again. Want a more subtle transition at the edges? Go back with a damp brush and blend it more. Streak of leaking oil not quite where you wanted it? Move it over. When you've spent a lot of time on a model it's really nice to be able to experiment and fine-tune everything without having to drop it in a bucket of paint stripper and start over from the beginning. The downside, of course, is that you can't safely touch the painted areas for several days or you'll wipe off some of the paint.

2) They can be thinned infinitely without disrupting the paint. Acrylic washes (and acrylic paints in general) can start to behave badly if you dilute them too much, while oil paints just get more and more transparent. This is really helpful when you're trying to do subtle tinting effects.

Also, oil and enamel washes are very high flow, which makes them great for panel-lines.