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What ever prompted all these different formations with special rules, I've been out of the Hobby since 3rd, so other than the standard detachment in the rule book that everyone had to use, there weren't any formations with the different special rules (at least outside apoc games where they made sense).

Was it a case of they were tried out in Apoc and people liked them, or was it a ploy by GW to get people buying specific miniatures (yes, I know to an extent everything is a ploy to get people buying models).

Having only looked at the IG formations, some of them don't really make sense to me.

The Emperors Shield Infantry Platoon. This one confuses me. The purpose of the sentinels (as I always understood it was to range ahead of the army as forward scouts, so why bog them down with an Infantry Platoon). I could understand it if we were talking catchan jungle fighters, but with Cadian Forces it doesn't feel right.

Infantry Company - Ok, this makes sense to me (other than the sentinels mentioned above), its ideal for apoc games

Emperors Talon Recon Company - I'm ok with this, they have the restriction re unit size, so ideal for apoc games

Emperors Blade Assault Company - was there really a need to create this formation other than to add some special rules? Its not a formation that really makes huge amounts of sense given how veterans are described as being the last of whole companies or regiments (or though having veterans as a troop option under that premise also doesn't make too much sense).

Artillery Company - in principal perfectly ok, except that its only a mixed artillery squadron with a command squad and enginseers thrown in - if you want to make it a company make it a requirement that each of the artillery squadrons you choose from have to be 3 strong, would also have liked to see an Artillery 'tank' commander, but as artillery don't move a lot, I'm ok with a company command squad.

Armoured Company - Like above, in principle perfectly ok, but should have the restrictions mentioned.

Ogryn Auxilla - Was there really a need for this?

Psykana Division - mixed feelings about this one, it would work for my armies fluff, but again, you seem to have the option of making it too small.

Super Heavy Company - This one bugs me because super heavies are meant to be rare, so seeing 3 together would most likely only happen in the largest of conflicts (think battle for Hades Hive size, and even then I don't think they had super heavies (or though that may have been retconned).

Aerial Company - In principle again fine, but there is the option of making it too small.

Like I said, I haven't looked at formations for other armies, but if they are as hit and miss as the IG ones seem to be, then its going to bug me.

To sell more miniatures and to provide a different gameplay than CADs.

Ogryn Auxilla because who doesn't love Ogryns? Well... A lot of people... But I like them so that formation is evidently for idiots like me.

IG Formations (and most formations in general) are designed to sell models, not many people would buy that much artillery so they made the Artillery Company to get the units moving. Of course they do offer markedly different gameplay, but they are ultimately to sell models.

Generally, Formations are a bit hit-and-miss, you'll have two or three that every competitive player and their dog plays and then the rest get left for the fluffy players, if not forgotten entirely.

icn1982 wrote:

Like I said, I haven't looked at formations for other armies, but if they are as hit and miss as the IG ones seem to be, then its going to bug me.

Welcome back; it gets craaaaazy.

Formations provide GW with a way of capitalising on sentimental lockin for specific armies. If, like me, you really like the Imperial Fists, then to get the most Fisty Imperial Fist army through the use of the Sternhammer Strikeforce formation, you need to buy at minimum, 25 marines, with an expansion to about 100. 80 of these will be devastators which cost just shy of £30 a box for 5.

In some cases I believe it is also a way to clear out overproduced models from their warehouse by adding 'post codex' abilities to them. For this the landspeeder comes to mind.

regarding your specific formation mentions:

Artillery Company - 3 strong would mean this formation costs new at minimum £250. The point of the formation appears to have been to make the basilisk border line relevant again, as they're direct sale only now and not very good otherwise.

Armoured Company - This is the only way a non lunatic is going to benefit from the full Cadian Battle force, as the alternative requires no less than 165 guardsmen. It's also a method to make the Leman Russ more versatile now that, in 7th at least, vehicles are not that good.

Ogryn Auxilla - Ogryns are not good; this makes them a little less not good, so people who want them but don't like the idea of playing them have a reason to buy them.

Psykana Division - It's a fundamental element of certain armies as it's the biggest persistent psychic charge generator in the game - it's *not* really that useful in a pure guard army.

Super Heavy Company - 1 Baneblade to 5 leman russes could still be called 'rare' but I know what you mean. Thing is there is such a fluff thing as a superheavy company, this just gives you the means to field it as an entire army in 'standard' 40k

Aerial Company - I personally hold this to be the best IG formation as it removes a big drawback to the fliers, and allows for a proper squadron to be fielded without the unweildyness of the unit coherence rules getting in the way.

Talking about super heavy spam the new Khorne lord of skulls formation 3x888pts are you on crack thats the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard of.

 Ubl1k wrote:
Talking about super heavy spam the new Khorne lord of skulls formation 3x888pts are you on crack thats the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard of.

QFT. And most people wouldn't even take one, let alone all three

They are there to sell models why buy one vindicator when three give you some overpowered BS special rule.

Some are reasonable but a lot are far too strong and of course not all armies get good formations.

Just another example of how crap GW are at making games currently.

Formations add some variety.

But they are so fundamentally flawed that it just becomes rediculous.

They should all give basic handy bonuses like +1 bs on x unit or reroll 1 to wound on y unit or you no longer need to take leadership tests to shooting casulties. All those are fluffy fun and not broken buffs.

Not to mention some armies don't have any or they are so bad that they aren't even worth concidering.

All in all like previously mentionned its to sell models and its obvious. Making gameplay different seems to be a byproduct.

 drunken0elf wrote:
Formations add some variety.

But they are so fundamentally flawed that it just becomes rediculous.

They should all give basic handy bonuses like +1 bs on x unit or reroll 1 to wound on y unit or you no longer need to take leadership tests to shooting casulties. All those are fluffy fun and not broken buffs.

Not to mention some armies don't have any or they are so bad that they aren't even worth concidering.

All in all like previously mentionned its to sell models and its obvious. Making gameplay different seems to be a byproduct.

That's a shame. Even though I think Formations should have been left to Apoc Battles only, they still had potential to create some very fluffy armies without being overpowered. Space Marines for example a battle company formation where you had to take 6 tac squads, 2 dev squads and 2 assault squads along with the captain, chaplain, apothecary and standard bearer. To large for regular games, but would be cool in an apoc game. It would also have been good as a guide for what people may want to get next.

icn1982 wrote:


That's a shame. Even though I think Formations should have been left to Apoc Battles only, they still had potential to create some very fluffy armies without being overpowered. Space Marines for example a battle company formation where you had to take 6 tac squads, 2 dev squads and 2 assault squads along with the captain, chaplain, apothecary and standard bearer. To large for regular games, but would be cool in an apoc game. It would also have been good as a guide for what people may want to get next.

Ummmm, that's all 'regular' 40K is anymore... ie Apoc.

 don_mondo wrote:
Ummmm, that's all 'regular' 40K is anymore... ie Apoc.

Apoc is a speciality game for a subset of gamers. The rest of us are left out in the cold this edition because of how terrifyingly bad the GW's Army comp is.

"I'm going to play a 1,000 point game..." "Ok, I'll bring 3 super heavy lords of war". There is no sense of scale at all to that. Part of Apoc is scale, and that is not accounted for in the slightest by the modern GW army comp.

Your best bet is to make your own army comp:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1e-aQqVAb_JitTuZtO4KlsmbgCw5rkdXotBZF-PXHL-I

The game still has problems, but it is more playable and more fun.

Super heavies and D weapons have no place in regular 40k, it's just a case of bigger more expensive models have a higher profit margin than infantry so they pushed them on us.