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I'm thinking of using brimstone horrors as bubble wrap for a Tzeentch flying circus. They look like they'd be great at it. Cheap enough to spam, obsec in a cad, and they generate warp charge almost as well as heralds anarchic.

Am I missing anything? I mean, yes, they die to a strong fart, but they just need to keep deep strikes away for a turn. And even then, they still soak up a decent amount of shooting for their points. Plus when they die, they stay dead, so no bookkeeping nightmares like pink horrors. (Plus I may still have friends after using brimstone horrors. )

I would say blue horrors are better: they are still quite cheap, can generate a couple of WC per unit and still take advantage of the split rule.
Although bubble wrap is one use for your horrors, the main use for them is to be WC batteries for your MC. Blue horrors prevent you from losing your WC to a 1st turn hammering of your horrors because new WC bursts out of them.

Another benefit of Blues is that they can blow through them and create a gap to charge through, since you can place Brims to keep the gap closed.

With armies like GSCs able to charge turn 1 after infiltrating, or Skyhammer Assault Marines, this can be vital to keeping you FMCs from getting bogged down.

The formation with brimstobes and an exalted flamer could work. If you get charged you can make them suffer :-)

I fully intend to use brimstones to bubble wrap, but don't have anywhere near enough

Hmm. I hadn't thought about charges. I'm not entirely convinced blues are that much more durable than brimstones unless your opponent shoots them in a really foolish way, but gap plugging might be important enough to deal with splitting. Then again, you get twice as many brimstones so a double line might be just as effective.

The lore stealer host formation might tip favor to blues though, just to unlock a pandemoniad. I really want to see brimstones come out on top, though.

Think of it this way, Blues gets you 20 models for 50pts
You have to spend an extra 10 points to get 20 models of Brims, making Blues a better value.

The ONLY reason to take Brims over Blues, is the same reason to take Blues over Pinks, and that is to have more WC on the board from the start rather than it generating as models die.
But that is going to involve just as much book keeping

Taking Blue Horrors is the sweet spot between not having to deal with too much splitting and having more WC on the board. If you start with Pinks, you have more splitting to do and in-game book keeping. If you start with all Brims you have more pre-game book-keeping, but tons of WC. Blue Horrors are the balance between these 2 tactics

50? I keep thinking it goes 30 to 60 to 90 for brim, blue, pink. Yeah... that really does tip things over to blues then. Only real advantage to brimstones at that point is taking up more space.

Honestly, 30/60/90 would have made sense. Especially since you don't lose WC as the models get split.
I thing GW was thinking, half the points rounded up, so a 9pt Pink becomes two 5pt Blues, which split into a pair of 3pt Brims

For the purposes of bubble wrap, brimstones get you a lot more board area for less points.

The split rule is insane tho. If I had the models, pinks would be best. Provided you can stop them getting instagibbed in cc.
Blues are a decent compromise.

Been talking about the split rule in regards to horrors in combat and the only reason they don´t split is if you roll a 12. Any other result including being wiped out and losing a few more to instability doesn´t effect the split process

Nah. If you lose your last model to your instability roll, you clearly trigger the penalty. I couldn't argue otherwise

but instability just takes another wound except 12 obviously

 rawne2510 wrote:
Been talking about the split rule in regards to horrors in combat and the only reason they don´t split is if you roll a 12. Any other result including being wiped out and losing a few more to instability doesn´t effect the split process

No if the unit is wiped to casualties from instability then you don't get any split horrors from that phase


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 rawne2510 wrote:
but instability just takes another wound except 12 obviously

12 isn't the only way for instability to remove a unit as a casualty. If the unit has 3 wounds left and the unit suffers 3 wounds from the effect on Daemonic Instability then Daemonic Instability is what removed the unit as a casualty

They take as many wounds as you have failed. You still get FnP against those wounds. It isn´t remove from play.

The FAQ statement is below

Q: It seems that the only thing that stops them from Splitting is if
they roll a Daemonic Instability test result that causes the entire
unit to be taken off of the table. Is this correct?
A: Yes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmmmm

On the fence about this.

If you fail your instability test and lose your last model, then the entire unit has been taken off the table.

 rawne2510 wrote:
They take as many wounds as you have failed. You still get FnP against those wounds. It isn´t remove from play.

The FAQ statement is below

Q: It seems that the only thing that stops them from Splitting is if
they roll a Daemonic Instability test result that causes the entire
unit to be taken off of the table. Is this correct?
A: Yes.

It doesn't need to be removed from play. Split doesn't say anything about having to be removed from play.

Maybe you split from the normal wounds but not from those taken by instability?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
yeah you´re right. I will go back and school my firends

 rawne2510 wrote:
Maybe you split from the normal wounds but not from those taken by instability?

What? No. Wounds caused by Instability can still split models. But The rule specifically says Instability removing the unit is an exception to the "unit is wiped out, immediately split" rule.

yeah. agree

Does anyone have a rulebook handy to check if enfeeble still have the "minimum of one" statement.

If not, it can instagib whole units of brimstones, which is a point in favour of blues.

aren´t brimstones T2. didn´t think you can be effected by the same malediction twice?

Brims are T1, S2 insta deaths them.

ah. umm. don´t have book on me but every article i read doesn´t say anything about a minimum which i smental.

Hm, yeah, a 24" enfeeble is pretty... unpleasant to have to face for Brimstone Horrors. Considering that everyone loves Biomancy, it's probably not too unreasonable to expect your opponent to have a few of them.

Although I don't know if there are many psyker-heavy alpha strike lists where this would be a major concern in context, especially considering I would have 15-20 dice to throw towards denying it.

OK so the rules for maledictions state that they can't reduce stats below 1. Phew, brimstones are safe.

Damn, that would have been useful for mirror matches.

on a seperate not the nurgle relic ghrotti doesn't have that restriction

 rawne2510 wrote:
on a seperate not the nurgle relic ghrotti doesn't have that restriction

Toughness cannot be reduced below 1 as a brb rule.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 rawne2510 wrote:
on a separate not the nurgle relic ghrotti doesn't have that restriction

Toughness cannot be reduced below 1 as a brb rule.

I don't think that's true. The stat section is specific that if strength toughness or wounds reach 0, you are removed from play (p9).

It does state the Maledictions can't take stats below one (p27). Grotti could cause issues for brimstone as far as I can see (even in the same army).

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 rawne2510 wrote:
on a separate not the nurgle relic ghrotti doesn't have that restriction

Toughness cannot be reduced below 1 as a brb rule.

I don't think that's true. The stat section is specific that if strength toughness or wounds reach 0, you are removed from play (p9).

It does state the Maledictions can't take stats below one (p27). Grotti could cause issues for brimstone as far as I can see (even in the same army).

Ah, I was thinking of something else. Ignore me.