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So, I'm an old WHFB player that's kind of new to the whole 40k scene but I'm really interested in starting a FW Renegade army lists. I really like the Bloody-handed Reaver option, but most of the tactica and suggestions I've read blow it off completely. The BHR gives you the grenadier option which is a flat 15 point upgrade that turns veterans into flak armour scions with +1 WS. Then for a flat 20pts, you can add the carapce armor and make them actual chaos scions.
With the grenadier, carapace, and required militia training upgrade at a flat 35pts per squad, you get WS4 BS5 10pt cost Tempestus Scions.

My question is, can you make a viable army around this? And what might be some good ways to kit them if doing so?

The group I normally play with is about mid tier in terms of competitiveness (they build competent armies, but nothing too unfair or game breaking(i.e. no flyer/superheavy spam)), and they've already okay'd a FW army.

I'll preface this with saying I don't know what the FW Chaos Scions get access to, but I'd say look at Militarum Tempestus armies to get an idea of viable army lists. Usually they're best as allies, but a pretty common list is:

-1x Command Squad w/ Plasma guns in a Taurox

-Several Troops with standard Hotshot Lasguns in a Taurox

-2x 5 Man groups w/ 2x Melta guns in Valkyries for suicide Melta

You're just as pricey as normal Marines with -1 Toughness, but you've got a pretty mobile force, some anti-air, and tons of AP3 with a bit of anti-tank and anti-Terminator

What are those Renegades armed with though? Scions have AP3 lasguns that justify the increased points cost.

 Brother SRM wrote:
What are those Renegades armed with though? Scions have AP3 lasguns that justify the increased points cost.

Str 3 ap3 lasguns are an upgrade over standard lasguns for sure.

But say if hes got acess to bolters like inquisition then go for the str4. Ap3 on the hotshot lasguns is impressive but trying to wound a T4 enemy is a pain.

 drunken0elf wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
What are those Renegades armed with though? Scions have AP3 lasguns that justify the increased points cost.

Str 3 ap3 lasguns are an upgrade over standard lasguns for sure.

But say if hes got acess to bolters like inquisition then go for the str4. Ap3 on the hotshot lasguns is impressive but trying to wound a T4 enemy is a pain.

Depends. Do the FW still get orders? Because those orders can make hotshot lasguns pretty deadly.

Renegade Reaver Vets do get hotshot lasguns, and they do work out to a few points cheaper than scions. BUT, you only get to pick one special ability, carapace, scout, or deepstrike (or furious charge, but... no), and they don't get orders.
So they lack a lot of the versatility of Scions, but they arent terrible by any means.
For basic veterans (not fancy reaver ones) I usually just go for a meltagun/bomb and deepstrike them as cheapo suicide units.
Paying for the ap3 weapons and carapace, you'd probably want to stick them in chimeras (which you can upgrade with autocannons!) for some mobility. Trading the armour for scout would make them particularly speedy in their rides for a 12" scout or outflank.
In the end, you'll want to use them as cover/interference for your artillery or tanks, which are the real heavy lifters in renegade armies. For hilarity, you could also spam swarms of rocket or flamer sentinels (fits the theme a bit better, i guess?)
They can even do budget air-cav using Arvus lighters instead of Valkyries.

The plan did include loading them up in chimera or valkyries for sure. I really liked the idea of giving them plenty of tank and artillery backing power, preferably direct fire to make use of the militia training tax.

I'm still clueless on the special weapons though. Are the hot-shot guns strong enough? Is the volley gun worth it or should I go for something else?

Hotshots arent good enough on their own, Volley guns arent good on anything that will have to move or deep-strike

 McGibs wrote:
Renegade Reaver Vets do get hotshot lasguns, and they do work out to a few points cheaper than scions. BUT, you only get to pick one special ability, carapace, scout, or deepstrike (or furious charge, but... no), and they don't get orders.
So they lack a lot of the versatility of Scions, but they arent terrible by any means.
For basic veterans (not fancy reaver ones) I usually just go for a meltagun/bomb and deepstrike them as cheapo suicide units.
Paying for the ap3 weapons and carapace, you'd probably want to stick them in chimeras (which you can upgrade with autocannons!) for some mobility. Trading the armour for scout would make them particularly speedy in their rides for a 12" scout or outflank.
In the end, you'll want to use them as cover/interference for your artillery or tanks, which are the real heavy lifters in renegade armies. For hilarity, you could also spam swarms of rocket or flamer sentinels (fits the theme a bit better, i guess?)
They can even do budget air-cav using Arvus lighters instead of Valkyries.

The Reaver Vets upgraded to Grenadiers also get +1 to their BS making them BS and WS4.

So, it's probably a better idea to use them as a support unit to back basic infantry and tanks?

Similar to Krieg Grenadiers in this case, yes.

A small squad of 5 in a Centaur (assuming you can take one) and armed with as many flamers or meltas as you can depending on the enemy you face can make a nice little irrelevant target in the grand scheme of things that can help defend your artillery and tanks

If I remember them correctly, grenadiers get the option to have 2 volley guns as well as 2 special weapons. I take 3 squads that deep strike as well as other squads for troops on the back objectives. When they land and are supported by spawns (or other things already up field) it really brings the heat

 CorpusBro wrote:
So, I'm an old WHFB player that's kind of new to the whole 40k scene but I'm really interested in starting a FW Renegade army lists. I really like the Bloody-handed Reaver option, but most of the tactica and suggestions I've read blow it off completely. The BHR gives you the grenadier option which is a flat 15 point upgrade that turns veterans into flak armour scions with +1 WS. Then for a flat 20pts, you can add the carapce armor and make them actual chaos scions.
With the grenadier, carapace, and required militia training upgrade at a flat 35pts per squad, you get WS4 BS5 10pt cost Tempestus Scions.

My question is, can you make a viable army around this? And what might be some good ways to kit them if doing so?

The group I normally play with is about mid tier in terms of competitiveness (they build competent armies, but nothing too unfair or game breaking(i.e. no flyer/superheavy spam)), and they've already okay'd a FW army.

Veterans (and by extension grenadiers) cannot take militia training, so you cannot upgrade them to BS5. They just go from BS3 to BS4 and take hotshot weapons when veterans become grenadiers.

You can take a close combat weapon and hotshot laspistol instead of hotshot lasgun. I always thought they were decent, especially since you can take two special weapons (or combination of them and sigil of chaos/vox caster) and then add up to two hot shot volley guns in a ten man squad.. One downside is if you buy carapace armour you cannot buy deepstrike or scout etc...

Oh, thanks for pointing out the lack of militia training. Yeah, the loss of special rules kind of hurts but I was planning on loading them in Valks so the loss of deepstrike isn't as huge of a deal.

The guy I play with the most is running a vanguard heavy Skitarii list. So I need the AP and staying out of assault is probably a good idea, right?