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 rawne2510 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 rawne2510 wrote:
He didn´t say they were as good as scatt bikes. he said they were the combat version of scatt bikes.

If you had to choose any points efficient shooting unit in the game you take scatt bikes.

If you had to choose any points efficient combat unit in the game it would be TWC or wulfen

Funnily enough for the same price as base TWC you can get six scout bikes and a seargent with Iron Hands Chapter Tactics. Stand up to base TWC any day of the week.
Twinlinked overwatch.
Twinlinked rapid-fire before charging.

Wolfkin dogstar.

Necron Wraiths with improved RP.

Wolfkin dog star hold stuff up and are only really good with their buddies.

Wraith a bit better now maybe with their ability to ignore units on the charge. But they don´t get RP as standard so their cost goes up to get that and slows then down staying within the 12" range.

Scout bikes don´t do anything in combat though. Being a counter to charging units doesn´t mean they are good at combat. Next you will add in Tau are being great in combat because most stuff dies on the charge.

Thunderwolves are only good because of their buddies. No different to the Wolfstar.

Wraiths have Fearless and a 3++ save and formation RP and an equatable statline standard at the same price as TWC, TWC gotta splash out further to get that ++ save. The Stalker buffs every non vehicle unit you can fit in the bubble - as long as you protect it you can just push it into bubble range of the next unit.

Tau fold as soon as anything decent at melee actually gets into melee. Biker Scouts will stand up to whatever makes it in, might even beat it. Overwatch to add to melee is is different to nothing but Overwatch.

TWC is pretty damn good without anything. They get beyond the pale when you start stacking things into the squad.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:


Thunderwolves are only good because of their buddies. No different to the Wolfstar.

Wraiths have Fearless and a 3++ save and formation RP and an equatable statline standard at the same price as TWC, TWC gotta splash out further to get that ++ save. The Stalker buffs every non vehicle unit you can fit in the bubble - as long as you protect it you can just push it into bubble range of the next unit.

Tau fold as soon as anything decent at melee actually gets into melee. Biker Scouts will stand up to whatever makes it in, might even beat it. Overwatch to add to melee is is different to nothing but Overwatch.

Bit of math equally out on points. 3 TWC against 3 Wraith 120 point seach

TWC 6 attacks on first round of combat no matter what. Wraith 4 on charge 3 without. (TWC ahead)

TWC I4 Wraiths I2 ( TWC ahead)

TWC 3+ Wraiths 3++ (Wraiths Ahead)

Wraiths +1 Str (wraiths ahead)

So say wraiths charge.

TWC get 18 attacks - 9 hits - 4.5 wounds = 1.5 wounds

wraiths hit back get 12 attacks - 6 hits - 4 wounds = 1 wound (up to 1.5 i think with the chance of rend)

It works out fairly even.

small points increase to get whip coils wraiths get the jump on TWC for striking first.

Bigger points increase to get RP requires 100 minimum. (spider + scarabs)
this gives the TWC 3 x storm shield, thunder hammer and power fist.

The RP buff is partially negated by the 10 ID attacks against them.

It all scales from there.

Both have Rending at the base level. TWC rending doesn't matter because Wraiths use ++ save anyway. Works out even.

Insta death doesn't stack so the RP will never be dropped by more than one, RP tops out at 4 but Necrons can hide a buff meaning the -1 gets negated out and immediately comes back on the hidden buff.

Wraiths are equal to TWC.
Scatt bikes have no equal.

Bigger points increase to get RP requires 100 minimum. (spider + scarabs)
this gives the TWC 3 x storm shield, thunder hammer and power fist.

The RP buff is partially negated by the 10 ID attacks against them.

So say wraiths charge.

Wraiths hit back get 12 attacks - 6 hits - 4 wounds = 1 wound

TWC get 6 attacks @ Str 5 - 3 hits - 1.5 wounds = .5 wounds (.33 after RP)
TWC get 10 attacks @ Str 10 - 5 - 4.2 wounds = 1.4 wounds (1.2 after RP is 1 dead wraith)

Then include the remainder of the harvest would have the non Str 10 going against scarabs and possible TH against spyder to get rid of RP

It works out fairly even. TWC are ahead at this point

Interesting how a thread on GSC has devolved into one on the merits of puppies...

It was accepted that GSC is an evil entity that required Imperial sanctions imposed. The puppies are always sent to do this job. Just consider Prospero

 Whitebeard wrote:
Is there a way to cheat it by proxying Cadian/Imperial Guard? Well, some of it I mean.

You could use them as Neophyte Hybrids without any trouble at all. In fact I think GW sell a head upgrade kit for Cadians that'll turn them into Neophyte Hybrids. I've also heard someone suggest using Catachans as Acolytes/ Metamorphs and Ogryns as Genestealers if you want to have a counts-as army using IG models.

 Whitebeard wrote:
Is there a way to cheat it by proxying Cadian/Imperial Guard? Well, some of it I mean.

Here's one way to go about it if you want to cut the cost of the army roughly in half.

Glaze exposed skin with different shades of purple and most people will accept it. If you really want them to look good buy a box of genestealers and kitbash them.

In relation to keeping cost down on GSC - does the Overkill box come with metamorph talons? It looks to me like those are the main difference (as far as the base model at least) between acolyte hybrids and hybrid metamorphs, and if a few boxes of Overkill is all you need to build the Insurrection detachment with enough metamorphs for the core and Uprising, I might sign up for that.

Jacksmiles wrote:
In relation to keeping cost down on GSC - does the Overkill box come with metamorph talons? It looks to me like those are the main difference (as far as the base model at least) between acolyte hybrids and hybrid metamorphs, and if a few boxes of Overkill is all you need to build the Insurrection detachment with enough metamorphs for the core and Uprising, I might sign up for that.

No it does not. You get 2 Genestealers, 4 Abberents 2 with pick and 2 with hammer, 12 Acolytes no upgrades, 16 Neophytes with 2 Grenade Launchers 2Mining Lazers and Auto Rifles, Patriarch, Magus, and Primus.

I don't think I missed anything

BomBomHotdog wrote:

Jacksmiles wrote:
In relation to keeping cost down on GSC - does the Overkill box come with metamorph talons? It looks to me like those are the main difference (as far as the base model at least) between acolyte hybrids and hybrid metamorphs, and if a few boxes of Overkill is all you need to build the Insurrection detachment with enough metamorphs for the core and Uprising, I might sign up for that.

No it does not. You get 2 Genestealers, 4 Abberents 2 with pick and 2 with hammer, 12 Acolytes no upgrades, 16 Neophytes with 2 Grenade Launchers 2Mining Lazers and Auto Rifles, Patriarch, Magus, and Primus.

I don't think I missed anything

Good to know, thanks a lot!

At this point I could trade one of my armies for a GC. But I feel like I would get bored of them over the months.

They don't have a lot of different units like Chaos does.

They don't have a great selection of units, but the units they do have are really good at the one thing they do, plus the army itself plays so differently than anything else in 40k that I've never found boredom a problem. If you want customisation options you can always bring some Allies along.