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SemperMortis wrote:
At the moment i play in a middling area, I do play tournaments often and I can honestly say this list would melt in the face of most of the armies I face. The best I have done in tournaments is to go zhadsnark heavy with bikes. AV doesn't bother most of my opponents, SMs really don't care about BWs because they just Grav cannon them to death or at the very least immobilize the all in 2 turns or 3 turns.

When I play friendly games I wouldn't bring this because like I said, its a good list in a friendly game and against most of my opponents it would dominate, its kind of in the middle between being to good for Casual play and not nearly good enough for tournament play.

It is very Rock Paper Scissors for sure. Late last year I switched to the Orcurion which can handle a wider range of threats (OT it has one BW for Ghaz' krew and one Trukk with three Killsaw MANz love me some Fearless Orks) and laughs at pretty much anything including Grav since the vast majority of the list has 6+ armor saves. It's more fun but still will auto lose against any Ld testing Psykers. Pyschic Scream will destroy easily even though it's all Fearless ?!?! Obviously I disagree with that


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 Blackie wrote:
Da blitz brigade isn't garbage, is a formation that usually performs quite well for orks standards.

Its main issue is that nowadays 1/3 of the armies are SM with a lot of melta/grav, the real hard counter for that formation.

The blackmanes formation for example consists in 8+ drop pods (that cost nothing) ALL coming in first turn and all filled by min units with a melta and combi melta each usually, plus the rune priests formation which unleashes a lot of s7 ignores cover shots. Against lists like that da blitz brigade is garbage and I've witnessed 4 wagons melted in turn 1, but overall it's nice and I love it too.

Sounds rough, glad I haven't played against it. For lists like that I count on lots of T7 Mek Gunz with max extra grots. Even with ignores cover, the opponent has to kill enough models to cause a Ld test.

 Otto Weston wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 Otto Weston wrote:
Obviously the answer is the Big Squiggoth. Take 3 and never worry about Stunned, Immobilized, Melta, Haywire, Glancing or Penning again xD

In all seriousness though, I'm taking 3 in a game tomorrow against Guard and will revert once I see how effective they are xD.

Don't those only transport 10 units and have WS2? I don't have the book available right now.

They transport 15 units, sure it's WS2 but you're not buying it for its melee potential.
It's tough to kill (unless your opponent is Deldar or has lots of grav).

They actually worked quite well in a fight against Guard - transporting my boyz safely to the fray. I only lost one but it took one and bit turns of all the Guard shooting to take him down. The second was nearly killed when it was Thunderblitzed (left on 1 wound).

Okay, I found the rules (the IA apoc book is the most recent set of rules, right?) and they seem like passable sidegrades to battlewagons. While they are 180 points sans upgrades and only move as fast as footsloggers (actually slower if they both run and you have a Warboss call Waaagh!) unless they buy snakebite drugs and get lucky, and will run away if not escorted, they can move and shoot with Lobbas and don't die to melta/plasma/haywire. They still get shredded by scatterbikes and Grav though, and while they throw out a lot of HoW attacks they still get tarpitted easily. All in all they can't get your orks to the front as fast as a vehicle and are expensive, but will survive a lot of abuse before croaking.

Anyone else want to start mathhammering out how durable vs various forms of shooting per point Big Squigs are compared to the other options? I got a start but might be a while.

Tried out the Quintuple CAD ten Trukk list last night:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717527.page

Okay, I realized that I should be mathhammering the durability of a squiggoth vs the durability of an equivalent amount of orks, since they move as fast. Also on the subject of squiggoths a possible trick is to footslog a KFF big mek behind two or three of them, as the mek can keep up with them and keep them in rang while the squigs block LOS.

Okay some major misconceptions about the blitz brigade.

First off you deploy them in a line, this way each wagons front AV14 shields the others AV12. Secondly, they gain scout, meaning they can outlfank if they wish, thereby nullifying an alphastrike list. Any ideas of drop podding enough firepower to pop five wagons is realistically dropping most of their list into charge range and willfully focusing firepower on the units specifically meant to tank firepower. The 15 pk wielding fearless MANz. I'm sorry but this anti brigade strategies I'm reading play straight into the brigades strengths. Ultimately in boils down to "I'm gonna try to squeeze my shooty units right inbetween your ultra killy CC units, focus fire on the parts with limited offensive capabilities and high defensive capabilities instead of the other way around, and hope they decide not to use the whole reason to take a blitz brigade, the scout rule." I don't think that's a sound strategy.

 slip wrote:
Okay some major misconceptions about the blitz brigade.

First off you deploy them in a line, this way each wagons front AV14 shields the others AV12. Secondly, they gain scout, meaning they can outlfank if they wish, thereby nullifying an alphastrike list. Any ideas of drop podding enough firepower to pop five wagons is realistically dropping most of their list into charge range and willfully focusing firepower on the units specifically meant to tank firepower. The 15 pk wielding fearless MANz. I'm sorry but this anti brigade strategies I'm reading play straight into the brigades strengths. Ultimately in boils down to "I'm gonna try to squeeze my shooty units right inbetween your ultra killy CC units, focus fire on the parts with limited offensive capabilities and high defensive capabilities instead of the other way around, and hope they decide not to use the whole reason to take a blitz brigade, the scout rule." I don't think that's a sound strategy.

Most drop pod armies I face have at least a Power Fist in them. So those SMs might not kill a single Nob, but the Sergeant with the PK is going to get at least 1 but regardless, My option was to shoot BWs to death because they die easily.

 slip wrote:
Okay some major misconceptions about the blitz brigade.

First off you deploy them in a line, this way each wagons front AV14 shields the others AV12. Secondly, they gain scout, meaning they can outlfank if they wish, thereby nullifying an alphastrike list. Any ideas of drop podding enough firepower to pop five wagons is realistically dropping most of their list into charge range and willfully focusing firepower on the units specifically meant to tank firepower. The 15 pk wielding fearless MANz. I'm sorry but this anti brigade strategies I'm reading play straight into the brigades strengths. Ultimately in boils down to "I'm gonna try to squeeze my shooty units right inbetween your ultra killy CC units, focus fire on the parts with limited offensive capabilities and high defensive capabilities instead of the other way around, and hope they decide not to use the whole reason to take a blitz brigade, the scout rule." I don't think that's a sound strategy.

It depends actually, because 15 meganobz on foot can die in a single turn of SM grav shooting, that's why against SM da blitz brigade works quite well with 3 units of boyz instead of the bullyboyz, if they destroy the vehicles then they have their best weapons that wound on 6s.

I dont like to much the trukks. They cost more or less like a rhino but with less BK and less armor. Indeed is an assault transport, but 10 and open toped makes it to much fragile.

I find them useful to transport something if your army has lot of other threats that could make your rival forget the trukk.


also only a capacity of 12 is very bad for orks. Excluding meganobs and so, we need way more than 12 boyzs arriving at combat, so we need send at least a second trukk (meanwhile usually any army unir on a ransport has options by itself)

I am only building up some Orks to get a 1000 point list going for fun multiplayer games and I have been debating about Battlewagons over Trucks so this thread helped a lot.

I am caught between just three big units of boys in three battlewagons with rokkits and a kilkannon versus a bunch of boys in trucks with deffkoptas.

Franarok wrote:
I dont like to much the trukks. They cost more or less like a rhino but with less BK and less armor. Indeed is an assault transport, but 10 and open toped makes it to much fragile.

I find them useful to transport something if your army has lot of other threats that could make your rival forget the trukk.


also only a capacity of 12 is very bad for orks. Excluding meganobs and so, we need way more than 12 boyzs arriving at combat, so we need send at least a second trukk (meanwhile usually any army unir on a ransport has options by itself)

To be honest trukk boyz should always be taken as cheap as possible so 10 boyz are actually better than 12. Trukks work only if there are a lot of them and unless you play the bullyboyz if you go with trukk you should field 4-5 min units of trukk boyz. But in my opinion 10 trukk boyz are more resilient than 30 boyz on foot that can be wiped out very easily in two turns without reaching combat. 2x30 boyz cost 100 points less than 4x10 trukk boyz but going speed freaks you have double the targets, double the pks and you're way faster. Not to mention that blasts and low-average strenght weapons would decimate footslogging boyz.

The comparison between trukks and rhinos is not fair, trukks are assault transports and with close combat ork units a vehicle that is not an assault transport is completely useless, and also you have to consider that pretty much everything in the SM codex is undercosted.


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 Thousandeyes wrote:
I am only building up some Orks to get a 1000 point list going for fun multiplayer games and I have been debating about Battlewagons over Trucks so this thread helped a lot.

I am caught between just three big units of boys in three battlewagons with rokkits and a kilkannon versus a bunch of boys in trucks with deffkoptas.

Three units of boyz in BW are ok only if you have other rooms for shooty heavy support choices like mek gunz or lootas. Da blitz brigade is nice because you can field 8 heavy supports including the wagons, or you can go double CAD adding a min units of grots as the mandatory fourth troop choice. Avoid killkannons in boyz wagons though and take just one cheap weapon, BWs for carrying boyz are useful for their capacity transport and their av, and also with boyz you'll probably flat out those vehicles so killkannons are better with shooty units like flash gitz or tankbustas.