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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/28 23:30:42
Subject: Thoughts on fighting Necrons
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Ragin' Ork Dreadnought
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Yesterday I had my first experience fighting Necrons in 7th edition, at least in the past couple of years. I had brought Drop Pod Space Marines with Iron Hands (Using their detachment for the FNP boosts,) taking a Librarius to fill out my character requirements. It was a 2v2, so my ally way CSM using Alpha Legion. The other team brought a Necron detachment using their fancy formation for 4+ Reanimation, re-rolling 1s, and Tau with a jumble of formations plus a CAD, in order to bring in a whole buncha stuff. (This was my second game playing against Tau in the past couple of years. My LGS is lacking in a couple of armies.)
And maaaan, was I totally unprepared to fight Necrons. The saving grace was that he was also unprepared to face Iron Hands Space Marines - He had no AP3 outside of some Heavy Destroyers, I had no AP4 and little that could cause Instant Death. (I'd brought a squad of Deathwatch for the Frag Cannons, a couple of Plasma Guns, and some Grav Cannons, but I had to dedicate those to taking out a Stormsurge, and the Frag Cannons I had to use as templates in order to deal with some Heavy Destroyers, so his 40+ Warrior went pretty much unscathed.)
By turn 2, I was in assault with most of his army, and from that point, pretty much nothing died. I had summoned in some Pink Horrors with my Librarians, because Heresy is fun, and between their nigh-infinite respawning and my Space Marines, we ended up slap-fighting for the rest of the game. Every combat went like this:
"Okay, I've got three marines left, my Librarian is over there within 12", so they still get the FNP buff. I roll my three attacks... Two hits, one wound."
"I save. I've got seven Necrons left... Three hits, two wounds."
"I save."
Over. And. Over. On a good fight, we'd cause maybe one casualty. On a bad one, nobody would die.
My Alpha Legion buddy and the Tau player ended up kicking the crap out of each other, (and the things that I threw at the Tau player/he threw at me did decent enough damage, I managed to whittle down his Stormsurge over three turns and eventually finish it off in CC, he blew up my Cataphractii Captain on some truly miserable rolls and annihilated my Deathwatch,) but between me and the Necron guy, it was a hilariously slow battle of attrition that went almost nowhere.
I'm not complaining, mind - It was a fun game. We pulled out a win with some good Maelstrom cards on the last turn (Hold an objective we already had, manifest Psychic powers, and kill a Character in close combat, all of which we were able to do pretty handily,) but it was a close, intense game. That being said, though, if it had *just* been Necrons vs Iron Hands, I'm not sure that anyone would have died. Period.
Man those guys are tough. I'm not even sure what I could have brought to deal with them, Space Marines are kind of lacking in mass AP4 that I can think of, it's all either AP2 or AP5, and I'm loathe to waste AP2 shooting on 4+ armor.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/29 01:22:43
Subject: Thoughts on fighting Necrons
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Repentia Mistress
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Well it's good to hear you had fun at least
Heavy flamers are usually the bane of warriors- at least they were whenever I fielded them; then again, my dice rolling is pretty atrocious on the beat of days ( hence why my friends would ask me to field decurion so that there'd at least be some chance of them not completely steam rolling me...)
Anyways, I've always been a big fan of dealing with necrons in close combat.
Their shooty units are shooty and don't like combat; their combat units are combat and don't like being shot. Throw your combat units into the warriors- if you can give them power maces, all the better for that extra strength and still get through their armour without losing initiative. Dedicate your ap2 etc into their combat units. Try to focus on taking out the Lord whenever possible and practical as he's the source of the rerollung 1s.
What's the ap values of the shots from thunderfire cannons? They'd be good for dealing with warrior blobs (my favourite)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/29 01:37:14
Subject: Thoughts on fighting Necrons
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Ragin' Ork Dreadnought
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Giantwalkingchair wrote:Well it's good to hear you had fun at least
Heavy flamers are usually the bane of warriors- at least they were whenever I fielded them; then again, my dice rolling is pretty atrocious on the beat of days ( hence why my friends would ask me to field decurion so that there'd at least be some chance of them not completely steam rolling me...)
Anyways, I've always been a big fan of dealing with necrons in close combat.
Their shooty units are shooty and don't like combat; their combat units are combat and don't like being shot. Throw your combat units into the warriors- if you can give them power maces, all the better for that extra strength and still get through their armour without losing initiative. Dedicate your ap2 etc into their combat units. Try to focus on taking out the Lord whenever possible and practical as he's the source of the rerollung 1s.
What's the ap values of the shots from thunderfire cannons? They'd be good for dealing with warrior blobs (my favourite)
I'm thinking about fielding a Thunderstar with the right relic to give them Furious Charge, for a buttload of S8 AP4 attacks - No armor, wounds on 2s, -1 to Reanimation Protocols.
If Thunderfire cannons do have an AP4 attack, I'll have to check it out. I only have one, but I could use it nonetheless.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/29 02:03:56
Subject: Thoughts on fighting Necrons
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Repentia Mistress
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I have no idea what thunderstar is but that sounds effective; just be sure you've not got all your eggs in one basket.
Also, if you have access to weapons that inflict blind, that'll cut down on their shooting effectiveness courtesy of cron low initiative. Capitalise on that. Thinking about it now though, don't think marines have much in the way of blind tricksies.
Fight smart, play the game not the ego sating kill points. Target priority and making sure your rocks are hitting their scissors and your papers covering their rock. Crons are a solid dex but they're beatable when youre smart. Their bad rap truly comes from unit spam and strong formations that too many people abuse or overuse.
If you can tee up a game with that guy again and just do a straight CAD v CAD with each other, I can guarantee you'll both have a blast.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/29 02:42:46
Subject: Thoughts on fighting Necrons
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Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot
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There is a handy table someone has whenever anyone asks about fighting us, will probably be posted up in this soon.
Basically, play to the mission and stop trying to kill us, we are kings of wars of attrition, there is no way you are going to win that battle.
Also, you shouldn't be worried about fighting warriors. Unless of course the guy you fought is going to be the only 'Cron player you come up against and he is set on spamming warriors. They are our basic unit in our codex. Everything stronger is T5+, with AP3/AP2 shooting/CC.
Things to look out for in a proper Necron force:
Stalker (Big spidery looking vehicle) Buffs surrounding non vehicles +1 BS, but is open topped. Blow it up quick smart as it willl make his HD's hit on 2's rerolling. Also if taken with 2x 5 man squads of praetorians makes them reroll all shooting attacks from the Praets for a turn against a specific unit.
Spyder (its a spyder) Confers RP to wraiths, makes them super indestructible. Its a MC so its T6 but it should be focused down.
Wraiths: biggest tarpits in the game, not killy unless a D/Lord is in the squad. Ignore if they are by themselves, they are just going to tie up whatever your important units are for the whole game.
Our deathstars are super resilient 3+/3++ rerolling 1's, 4+RP rerolling 1's with a lot of excess bodies, and alot of warscythes S7 AP2.
Tomb blades (jetbikes) very fast, with IC, jink, turbo boost etc. Very durable for their points cost and do work in most of my games
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12,000
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/29 03:06:24
Subject: Thoughts on fighting Necrons
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Ragin' Ork Dreadnought
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Klowny wrote:There is a handy table someone has whenever anyone asks about fighting us, will probably be posted up in this soon.
Basically, play to the mission and stop trying to kill us, we are kings of wars of attrition, there is no way you are going to win that battle.
Also, you shouldn't be worried about fighting warriors. Unless of course the guy you fought is going to be the only 'Cron player you come up against and he is set on spamming warriors. They are our basic unit in our codex. Everything stronger is T5+, with AP3/AP2 shooting/ CC.
Things to look out for in a proper Necron force:
Stalker (Big spidery looking vehicle) Buffs surrounding non vehicles +1 BS, but is open topped. Blow it up quick smart as it willl make his HD's hit on 2's rerolling. Also if taken with 2x 5 man squads of praetorians makes them reroll all shooting attacks from the Praets for a turn against a specific unit.
Spyder (its a spyder) Confers RP to wraiths, makes them super indestructible. Its a MC so its T6 but it should be focused down.
Wraiths: biggest tarpits in the game, not killy unless a D/Lord is in the squad. Ignore if they are by themselves, they are just going to tie up whatever your important units are for the whole game.
Our deathstars are super resilient 3+/3++ rerolling 1's, 4+ RP rerolling 1's with a lot of excess bodies, and alot of warscythes S7 AP2.
Tomb blades (jetbikes) very fast, with IC, jink, turbo boost etc. Very durable for their points cost and do work in most of my games
I'm thinking that, last game, I should have rolled on Librarius powers to get the -2 Invuln ability. That would have saved me a ton of headache early on, letting us take down lots of big nasties rather than flailing around against waves of 4+ Invulns. The summoning was pretty useful, but if I'd been able to kill a lot of stuff early on it would have been a lot *more* useful.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/29 03:15:07
Subject: Thoughts on fighting Necrons
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Numberless Necron Warrior
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Thats pretty much how all of my games go with necrons. My necrons get stuck in close combat and if my opponent doesnt sweep the first turn it pretty much turns into a fight to the death with pool noodles.
A big weakness of necrons is high volume choppy units that cut through our armor save. Honor guard, sanquinary guard, beserkers.
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Opinions are like donkey-caves, everyone has them and they all stink.
Necrons 7000+
Space Wolves 2500
Mechanicum: 3000
Space Marines: 3000 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/29 06:24:55
Subject: Thoughts on fighting Necrons
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Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot
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Waaaghpower wrote:Klowny wrote:There is a handy table someone has whenever anyone asks about fighting us, will probably be posted up in this soon.
Basically, play to the mission and stop trying to kill us, we are kings of wars of attrition, there is no way you are going to win that battle.
Also, you shouldn't be worried about fighting warriors. Unless of course the guy you fought is going to be the only 'Cron player you come up against and he is set on spamming warriors. They are our basic unit in our codex. Everything stronger is T5+, with AP3/AP2 shooting/ CC.
Things to look out for in a proper Necron force:
Stalker (Big spidery looking vehicle) Buffs surrounding non vehicles +1 BS, but is open topped. Blow it up quick smart as it willl make his HD's hit on 2's rerolling. Also if taken with 2x 5 man squads of praetorians makes them reroll all shooting attacks from the Praets for a turn against a specific unit.
Spyder (its a spyder) Confers RP to wraiths, makes them super indestructible. Its a MC so its T6 but it should be focused down.
Wraiths: biggest tarpits in the game, not killy unless a D/Lord is in the squad. Ignore if they are by themselves, they are just going to tie up whatever your important units are for the whole game.
Our deathstars are super resilient 3+/3++ rerolling 1's, 4+ RP rerolling 1's with a lot of excess bodies, and alot of warscythes S7 AP2.
Tomb blades (jetbikes) very fast, with IC, jink, turbo boost etc. Very durable for their points cost and do work in most of my games
I'm thinking that, last game, I should have rolled on Librarius powers to get the -2 Invuln ability. That would have saved me a ton of headache early on, letting us take down lots of big nasties rather than flailing around against waves of 4+ Invulns. The summoning was pretty useful, but if I'd been able to kill a lot of stuff early on it would have been a lot *more* useful.
Sorry dude, dont mean to be rude, but where are you getting waves for 4+ invuln's? Lychguard and wraiths have 3++ (only troops that have it that is quasi spammable), HQ's can get access to 4++ through a piece of wargear.
Did you mean getting the librarius power would affect our Reanimation Protocol? thats the army wide 4+++ we get, however it isnt technically a save, so can be taken against stuff that doesnt allow saves of any kind (bar D weapons), so the power wont affect it. Only ID and D affect RP, and the ID modifier can be neutered if there are crypteks about.
And again, the mentality of killing our big nasties early on is a fickle undertaking at best.
Its best not to play KP against us, play maelstrom and play to objectives. If the 'Crons have 4+ RP, it will probably mean a Decurion is being fielded, which means a loss of ObSec. Use this to your advantage.
Another thing, if it has a gun, the gun is probably going to hurt between 12-24" away, but for the most part thats our effective shooting range. It is quite lethal however, with good BS, rapid fire and the gauss rule.
If the unit doesn't have shooting, it will be a CC unit. Run your CC at them, or try shoot them to death before you do, as while our initiative is very low, anything that will swing back is generally going to be AP2, S5+. I showed my mate why equipping TH/ SS on all of his Blood angel termies was a bad idea the other day, 6 Lychguard and 6 Praetorians took down 15 termies, and I only lost a single lychguard. Our choppy is only good due to our survivability.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/29 06:30:37
12,000
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/29 06:50:44
Subject: Thoughts on fighting Necrons
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Ragin' Ork Dreadnought
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Klowny wrote:Waaaghpower wrote:Klowny wrote:There is a handy table someone has whenever anyone asks about fighting us, will probably be posted up in this soon.
Basically, play to the mission and stop trying to kill us, we are kings of wars of attrition, there is no way you are going to win that battle.
Also, you shouldn't be worried about fighting warriors. Unless of course the guy you fought is going to be the only 'Cron player you come up against and he is set on spamming warriors. They are our basic unit in our codex. Everything stronger is T5+, with AP3/AP2 shooting/ CC.
Things to look out for in a proper Necron force:
Stalker (Big spidery looking vehicle) Buffs surrounding non vehicles +1 BS, but is open topped. Blow it up quick smart as it willl make his HD's hit on 2's rerolling. Also if taken with 2x 5 man squads of praetorians makes them reroll all shooting attacks from the Praets for a turn against a specific unit.
Spyder (its a spyder) Confers RP to wraiths, makes them super indestructible. Its a MC so its T6 but it should be focused down.
Wraiths: biggest tarpits in the game, not killy unless a D/Lord is in the squad. Ignore if they are by themselves, they are just going to tie up whatever your important units are for the whole game.
Our deathstars are super resilient 3+/3++ rerolling 1's, 4+ RP rerolling 1's with a lot of excess bodies, and alot of warscythes S7 AP2.
Tomb blades (jetbikes) very fast, with IC, jink, turbo boost etc. Very durable for their points cost and do work in most of my games
I'm thinking that, last game, I should have rolled on Librarius powers to get the -2 Invuln ability. That would have saved me a ton of headache early on, letting us take down lots of big nasties rather than flailing around against waves of 4+ Invulns. The summoning was pretty useful, but if I'd been able to kill a lot of stuff early on it would have been a lot *more* useful.
Sorry dude, dont mean to be rude, but where are you getting waves for 4+ invuln's? Lychguard and wraiths have 3++ (only troops that have it that is quasi spammable), HQ's can get access to 4++ through a piece of wargear.
Did you mean getting the librarius power would affect our Reanimation Protocol? thats the army wide 4+++ we get, however it isnt technically a save, so can be taken against stuff that doesnt allow saves of any kind (bar D weapons), so the power wont affect it. Only ID and D affect RP, and the ID modifier can be neutered if there are crypteks about.
And again, the mentality of killing our big nasties early on is a fickle undertaking at best.
Its best not to play KP against us, play maelstrom and play to objectives. If the 'Crons have 4+ RP, it will probably mean a Decurion is being fielded, which means a loss of ObSec. Use this to your advantage.
Another thing, if it has a gun, the gun is probably going to hurt between 12-24" away, but for the most part thats our effective shooting range. It is quite lethal however, with good BS, rapid fire and the gauss rule.
If the unit doesn't have shooting, it will be a CC unit. Run your CC at them, or try shoot them to death before you do, as while our initiative is very low, anything that will swing back is generally going to be AP2, S5+. I showed my mate why equipping TH/ SS on all of his Blood angel termies was a bad idea the other day, 6 Lychguard and 6 Praetorians took down 15 termies, and I only lost a single lychguard. Our choppy is only good due to our survivability.
Sorry, I wasn't clear. The 'Waves of 4++' was from the Tau guy, who made a crapton of saves on his Stormsurge and Riptide, both of whom had a 4++. And also his Lord and Destroyer Lord, I guess, but they didn't come up until late game. With only a 6++ on his Stormsurge, though, I would have killed it a turn sooner, and we would have had four or five bikes, my Captain, and both of my Grav Cannons, which would have made it a lot easier to kill all his other stuff.
Because of the detachment I took, I did get a ton of Objective Secured in my army (So did my Alpha Legion ally,) and that absolutely won us the game. Since he had Scout with short ranged weapons and I had Drop Pods with short ranged weapons there was no staying out of his firing range, but grabbing up all the objectives so they couldn't was massively useful.
It didn't help that out of a dozen Leadership checks, more than half of which were at a -1, (Though I never got more than -3,) he didn't fail a single one.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/29 07:05:45
Subject: Thoughts on fighting Necrons
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Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot
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Ah ok yep that makes sense.
Yea army wide LD 10 makes it hard to get points for failing checks, as it raaaaaarely comes off.
I think Ive failed 2 LD checks in my games with friends lol
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