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Okay, so I've decided to start a new army because I don't like my old one enough to keep playing it.

I've decided on Chaos Daemons for my new army. Not interested in the Space Marines or Traitor Guard at all, just Daemons.

My local meta is very casual, but people choose their units based on how effective they are, which has led to most of my prospective opponents having fairly powerful armies without going overboard on it and starting to use cheesy stuff. So my opposition is powerful, but not OP.

I don't like Nurgle, and I'm willing to work around the lack of resilient units, but I'm willing to use all three other Gods' units and I'm not shy about mixing them in the same army.

I intend to make a large collection of models for this army from which I'll draw armies of a wide variety of sorts. I won't be playing one list and one list only - I like variety and experimenting.

But I need to start somewhere, and currently I don't have enough models to field a playable army.

So I'd like some suggestions on what would make a solid base for a Chaos Daemons collection, and some tips on what units and options I should stay away from completely in the current edition.

Get two of the "start collecting tzeentch boxes". You'll have a screamer star there, plus some pink horrors going. Snag a new Kairos model too. You want resiliency? Screamer star with Kairos doesn't die. Period.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Get two of the "start collecting tzeentch boxes". You'll have a screamer star there, plus some pink horrors going. Snag a new Kairos model too. You want resiliency? Screamer star with Kairos doesn't die. Period.

I don't think I'll use a screamer star, and I'm going to avoid Kairos (I don't like using special characters, personal preference), and I'm more interested in winning half of my games than all of them, but I'll definitely pick up a couple of those boxes to get my Tzeentch stuff going.

What about Slaanesh and Khorne?

Get chaos warriors hounds and paint em red to make em Fleshhounds on the cheap. Seekers of Slaanesh are good; fast and lots of rending attacks. And cheap.
And wait, didn't you want competitive? You're skipping the most competitive unit in the book?!

Get a couple LoCs anyway for the Oracles detachment from Magnus book.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Get chaos warriors hounds and paint em red to make em Fleshhounds on the cheap. Seekers of Slaanesh are good; fast and lots of rending attacks. And cheap.
And wait, didn't you want competitive? You're skipping the most competitive unit in the book?!

Get a couple LoCs anyway for the Oracles detachment from Magnus book.

I wanted "casual, but effective instead of fluffy." I didn't say "competitive" anywhere, because there's no competition involved.

Okay, Fleshhounds, Seekers, and a Lord of Change are good.

Any other Khorne/Slaanesh units I should have available as a beginner?

 Pouncey wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Get two of the "start collecting tzeentch boxes". You'll have a screamer star there, plus some pink horrors going. Snag a new Kairos model too. You want resiliency? Screamer star with Kairos doesn't die. Period.

I don't think I'll use a screamer star, and I'm going to avoid Kairos (I don't like using special characters, personal preference), and I'm more interested in winning half of my games than all of them, but I'll definitely pick up a couple of those boxes to get my Tzeentch stuff going.

What about Slaanesh and Khorne?

Taking Kairos and screamers in no way guarantees you any victory.

No, but it gives you REALLY good odds!

 timetowaste85 wrote:
No, but it gives you REALLY good odds!

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to avoid here. I don't want an unkillable unit because I like it better when my opponents can kill my units. I don't want really good odds of victory, I want even odds, because I want a fair fight.

No one in my local meta uses the trendy units popularized on the Internet. But they do react to them.

The last time I used a Netlist unit and it was super-effective, the response was to simply target it with literally every single weapon available in every single game I used it in thereafter, until it was dead.

And by, "until it was dead" I mean there was one incident where there was 1 infantry squad member of the unit left alive, and I had to convince my opponent that it would be better for her Lootas to shoot at one of my tanks than a single infantryman.

If I use that unkillable screamer star, after the first game, the only thing that's going to result is that my opponent is going to completely forget about the rest of my army, and direct EVERY weapon they can bring to bear on it, until every last member of the squad is dead.

What are the odds of a screamer star essentially taking on an entire army's firepower by itself and surviving? Because my opponent isn't going to just tarpit it and leave it alone. They're going to fire EVERY gun they have on it, and slam EVERY melee unit they have into it, as fast as possible, as often as possible, until it is dead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Really, I'm not looking for an army list here.

I'm going to be making a lot of different army lists over the coming years, because that's how I play WH40k.

I'm wondering where to start my collection, not my list. I didn't ask for the most powerful units or anything like that.

This means I need:

-Wide varieties of "the basics." Lots of Troops of different types. A variety of Heavy Support, Fast Attack, Elites, HQs to draw on. Stuff found in almost every list that simply cannot be done without, and a wide variety thereof.
-Advice on what units are so underpowered they are not worth using, along with similar advice on particular options.

I don't need or want to know "the most powerful" anything.

Because I'm not getting started on an army list here.

I'm getting started on a MASSIVE model collection that will eventually end up including almost every model and unit sold by GW for this army.

This is an unusual approach, I'm aware. Most gamers would start small. I'm not doing that here. I don't need to see what I like and work my way into knowing what's good for my personal skill set and build up a list.

I'm going all-out on Chaos Daemons right off the bat.

Given that your statement

''I'm getting started on a MASSIVE model collection that will eventually end up including almost every model and unit sold by GW for this army. ''

I would suggest that you simply buy the models you like the look of first and work from there. The SC! boxes are good value. As others have said you can convert stuff from other lines to make them work in your army.

Bloodcrushers are pretty effective at taking out space marines, with their AP3 hellblades.

So you want...

... powerful and effective, but not OP.
... killable, but not too killable.
... more than just Tzeentch.

Sounds like an Infernal Tetrad to me.

Apart from the obvious Codex, I suggest you get the "Start Collecting" boxes for Khorne and Tzeentch, plus two boxes of Seekers of Slaanesh. All of the models can (and will) be used in a non-competetive environment, and you have a solid mix of gameplay options already with that.

Have a few games with that, and then decide what you want to add. Both the Bloodthirster and the Lord of Change are cool models with excellent ingame use, so one (or both) should be added at some point. But really: go with what you like the looks of.

And while I respect the dislike for the Nurgle models: you are missing out on some really good stuff. Maybe think about converting some "counts as"-models from other gods to stand in as Nurgle units.

Do pink horrors have access to daemonology?

It was taken away with the FAQ for wrath of magnus, but I've heard it's also been given back to them. Honestly I think they shouldn't anyway.

 koooaei wrote:
Do pink horrors have access to daemonology?

Not if you are using the current unit entry for Horrors. The BRB & Daemon codex FAQ gives all psykers access to Malefic (except GKs & Nids, of course)
But the WoM Pink/Blue & Brimsotne horror entries REPLACE the entry in the Daemon codex. The WoM FAQ clarifies the Horrors only have access to Change.

Considering how Split works & the extended Change Discipline in the CotW book, this is more than fair. If you are spamming Horrors, you will most like roll the Change power that can summon Flamers or a Chariot, so getting 2 Tzeetch Get Stated boxes is a good idea, but you'll also need 2-3 boxes of Blue/Brims to go with that.

After that, Tetrad is a good idea. You can pick up a box of AoS Crypt Horrors/Flayers and convert them to be DPs

Also, Pouncy, sounds like you want models that don't require your opponents to think against. Are you playing against people who ignore tactics and complain when they lose? Seeing as you mentioned orcs, they should drown screamers in bodies. It won't kill em, but it'll keep them ineffective.

If you want fun and awesome, but not broken, get a Khorne Daemon Prince. Give it a Bloodcrusher head to make it Khorne, then give it an Axe of Khorne gift and a Blade of Blood (the blade gives rampage even if not the "active weapon", per ruling in FAQ about just "having a weapon"). He'll be a close combat blender, a character hunter (ID on a 6), but can be killed. So...two greater gifts and one lesser gift on him.

Seekers seem really good as being tougher, more mobile, and a bit more deadly (more attacks) version of Daemonettes. Relative cheap in terms of points so a lot can be fielded.

Seekers are a good way to get some fiends with a little work as well. At least until they get around to finally updating the current ones.