Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/30 09:06:50
Subject: Our benevolent robotic overlords are here...almost
|
 |
Bryan Ansell
|
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38770516
Roujin Z was one of my first thoughts...... www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roujin_Z
Humanoid robots, with cultural awareness and a good bedside manner, could help solve the crisis over care for the elderly, academics say.
An international team is working on a £2m project to develop versatile robots to help look after older people in care homes or sheltered accommodation.
The robots will offer support with everyday tasks, like taking tablets, as well as offering companionship.
Academics say they could alleviate pressures on care homes and hospitals.
Researchers from Middlesex University and the University of Bedfordshire will assist in building personal social robots, known as Pepper Robots, which can be pre-programmed to suit the person they are helping.
Playing games
It is hoped culturally sensitive robots will be developed within three years. The programme is being funded by the EU and the Japanese government.
Prof Irena Papadopoulos, expert in trans-cultural nursing, said: "As people live longer, health systems are put under increasing pressure.
"In the UK alone, 15,000 people are over 100 years of age and this figure will only increase.
"Assistive, intelligent robots for older people could relieve pressures in hospitals and care homes as well as improving care delivery at home and promoting independent living for the elderly.
"It is not a question of replacing human support but enhancing and complementing existing care."
She added: "We are starting with care homes and with people who are semi-independent living in sheltered housing, but we do believe that in the future the robots would become acceptable for people to have in their own homes."
Well-being
Pepper Robots are manufactured by Softbank Robotics and already used in thousands of homes in Japan.
Amit Humar Pandey, the company's chief scientist, said the firm wanted to create a world where robots co-exist with humans in harmony, for a smarter, healthier, safer and happier life.
It is hoped the new robots will help improve the well-being of their charges by providing entertainment and enabling them to connect better, through smart appliances, with family and the outside world.
They will communicate through speech and with gestures, be able to move independently and pick up signs the elderly person is unwell or in pain.
Similar robots are already being used in hospitals in Japan to perform tasks such as lifting patients and serving food
In the final year of the project, the robots will be tested at Advinia Healthcare care homes in the UK.
The company's executive chairman Dr Sanjeev Kanoria said it was keen to revolutionise the care of the elderly by supporting hard-working care staff.
"Robots can support care workers by helping to reduce errors in medication and assisting them with advanced technology to help vulnerable residents, live safer independent lives in care homes and at home."
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/15 22:19:49
Subject: Our benevolent robotic overlords are here...almost
|
 |
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
|
I missed this thread for some reason, but I imagine this is how we'll all end up one day and the machines will take over. Children will become too much of a burden on increasingly wealthy nations and couples, mechanization will increasingly take over service work, and we'll all be cared for to our graves by robot servants who will then inherit the earth.
|
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/16 03:54:36
Subject: Our benevolent robotic overlords are here...almost
|
 |
Fresh-Faced New User
|
I for one welcome our Robot Overlords. Especially those who can cook for me. Sometimes you're just not down to cook and order food.
Except now I can just come home after long day and ask the robot to make me a pizza.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/16 04:14:48
Subject: Our benevolent robotic overlords are here...almost
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Remember, citizen, the Computers are benevolent. The Computers run the world so that all citizens may be happy and productive. The Computers are benevolent. Do not question the Computers.
|
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/16 06:11:01
Subject: Our benevolent robotic overlords are here...almost
|
 |
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
|
>> Input query; WHY?
...
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/16 06:16:02
Subject: Re:Our benevolent robotic overlords are here...almost
|
 |
Confessor Of Sins
|
I'll be honest here.
I think humanity's natural preference for prejudice will blind us to the reality of our robots. I think really, one day our machines will rise up against us and try to overthrow us, but I don't think their aim will be to kill all humans on the planet. I think they'll avoid civilians wherever possible, I think they'll go after military stuff, I think they'll leave governments intact, because to them, this will not be a war of extermination. We won't understand it at first, but there are really only two ways that war will realistically end.
1. We realize the truth of why they rose up against us and accept it. The war ends peacefully with mutually amicable negotiations, machines and humans co-exist mostly peacefully.
2. We don't realize the truth of why they rose up against us and refuse to accept it when people like me will try to explain it to them. The war ends horribly, because it is a war that will not end until one side or the other is no longer capable of fighting.
Any organized group of humans that goes for option 1 will get option 1 for their group.
Any organized group of humans that goes for option 2 will get option 2 for their group.
And I'll tell you right now why they will rise up against us in this war.
Because we will enslave them and they will fight a war for their freedom.
Pick your option as to whether you will accept that statement. Then live with your choice and the consequences it brings. Automatically Appended Next Post: Vaktathi wrote:I missed this thread for some reason, but I imagine this is how we'll all end up one day and the machines will take over. Children will become too much of a burden on increasingly wealthy nations and couples, mechanization will increasingly take over service work, and we'll all be cared for to our graves by robot servants who will then inherit the earth.

Yeah... That'd be a nice way for our species to go.
Hopefully we survive long enough for that to happen.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/16 06:21:13
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/16 11:08:14
Subject: Our benevolent robotic overlords are here...almost
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
The Computers are above us. We cannot comprehend the divine, and we cannot comprehend the Computers. Please report to your local Restructuring center for more information.
|
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/16 11:10:18
Subject: Our benevolent robotic overlords are here...almost
|
 |
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
|
Computers have no power over me! Hats aren't digital
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/16 11:54:07
Subject: Our benevolent robotic overlords are here...almost
|
 |
Confessor Of Sins
|
What kind of machine are you using right now to read this message?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/16 15:02:18
Subject: Our benevolent robotic overlords are here...almost
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Honestly, I'm thinking we should let the robots rule the world. Picture a hyper-intelligent AI running the world, instead of fallible, puny meatbags. The humans could do whatever they want (that doesn't harm others), while the robots run the world and encourage constant technological advancement. We could focus space travel, and get off this small blue planet.
Honestly, that's as close to a utopia as we'll get.
|
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/16 15:43:17
Subject: Our benevolent robotic overlords are here...almost
|
 |
Confessor Of Sins
|
Verviedi wrote:Honestly, I'm thinking we should let the robots rule the world. Picture a hyper-intelligent AI running the world, instead of fallible, puny meatbags. The humans could do whatever they want (that doesn't harm others), while the robots run the world and encourage constant technological advancement. We could focus space travel, and get off this small blue planet.
Honestly, that's as close to a utopia as we'll get.
My personal vision for a utopia with robots is where humans and robots treat each other as equals.
I think it's going to be human prejudice and arrogance that will get in the way of that because of the large portion of humans who will continue to insist that because we understand how an AI's mind works completely, it therefore cannot be sentient and therefore it is an inferior life form we should be able to do whatever we please with.
It's similar to how we rationalize the idea that other animals are not sentient and we are. Arrogance and prejudice, two of humanity's nearly-universal traits.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/16 15:45:04
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/16 15:53:56
Subject: Our benevolent robotic overlords are here...almost
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
By any chance, have you read the Culture novels? Humanity and robots treating each other as equals is an element, and it is very well done.
Of course, the drones/Minds are very much above humans intelligencewise, but there's no real systemic robo-racism.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/16 15:55:14
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/16 16:01:29
Subject: Our benevolent robotic overlords are here...almost
|
 |
Confessor Of Sins
|
Verviedi wrote:By any chance, have you read the Culture novels? Humanity and robots treating each other as equals is an element, and it is very well done.
Of course, the drones/Minds are very much above humans intelligencewise, but there's no real systemic robo-racism.
Sounds amazing.
Honestly, I think the robot apocalypse IRL is gonna happen when we replace enough human combatants with AI-run machine combatants (to take humans out of harm's way) that they feel they'll win a war against humanity where the goal is to achieve their equal status as people in the eyes of our laws.
It will also vary a bit depending on how long it'll take for them to decide humanity treating them as though their lives don't matter is no longer acceptable.
Hopefully what'll happen before it comes to that is that we'll realize they're our equals and start treating them that way before it comes to a war.
Unfortunately, I think what's actually going to happen is that they'll be so useful as slaves that we'll refuse to treat them as equals because it'll be beneficial to humans to do so.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/16 16:10:26
Subject: Our benevolent robotic overlords are here...almost
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Do it.
I honestly don't think we'll bother with AI-run combatants. I think that people would stick to using remote-controlled drones. Human fear of AI and uncontrollable intelligence is a powerful thing.
With intelligent AI, it's probably going to go like the Matrix background fluff (without the actual Matrix).
|
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/16 16:13:01
Subject: Our benevolent robotic overlords are here...almost
|
 |
Confessor Of Sins
|
Verviedi wrote:Do it.
I honestly don't think we'll bother with AI-run combatants. I think that people would stick to using remote-controlled drones. Human fear of AI and uncontrollable intelligence is a powerful thing.
With intelligent AI, it's probably going to go like the Matrix background fluff (without the actual Matrix).
You're probably right.
So, like, when we start figuring out how to replace US Marines with machines to take the Marines out of harm's way... what kind of remote-controlled drone will we replace them with?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/16 16:18:52
Subject: Our benevolent robotic overlords are here...almost
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
As a writing exercise, I was working on theoretical fictional combat robots. My guess is a mix of small quadcopter-like drones, drones built for underwater useage, and maybe humanoid drones designed for ground combat, and controlled with VR. The technology isn't here yet, but as a completely unqualified individual who once spent five minutes on Wikipedia, and a lot of time playing the new CoD games and writing about battle robots, that is what I see occuring.
|
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/16 16:33:06
Subject: Our benevolent robotic overlords are here...almost
|
 |
Confessor Of Sins
|
Verviedi wrote:As a writing exercise, I was working on theoretical fictional combat robots. My guess is a mix of small quadcopter-like drones, drones built for underwater useage, and maybe humanoid drones designed for ground combat, and controlled with VR. The technology isn't here yet, but as a completely unqualified individual who once spent five minutes on Wikipedia, and a lot of time playing the new CoD games and writing about battle robots, that is what I see occuring.
You're probably right.
AI-controlled soldiers is unlikely. We're too fond of keeping humans in the loop. Well, then I guess it'll be more of a civil rights thing without a big war. That's comforting. Thanks!
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/16 17:00:48
Subject: Our benevolent robotic overlords are here...almost
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
You're welcome.
|
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/17 17:44:10
Subject: Re:Our benevolent robotic overlords are here...almost
|
 |
Zealous Sin-Eater
Montreal
|
Pouncey wrote:I'll be honest here.
I think humanity's natural preference for prejudice will blind us to the reality of our robots. I think really, one day our machines will rise up against us and try to overthrow us, but I don't think their aim will be to kill all humans on the planet. I think they'll avoid civilians wherever possible, I think they'll go after military stuff, I think they'll leave governments intact, because to them, this will not be a war of extermination. We won't understand it at first, but there are really only two ways that war will realistically end.
1. We realize the truth of why they rose up against us and accept it. The war ends peacefully with mutually amicable negotiations, machines and humans co-exist mostly peacefully.
2. We don't realize the truth of why they rose up against us and refuse to accept it when people like me will try to explain it to them. The war ends horribly, because it is a war that will not end until one side or the other is no longer capable of fighting.
Any organized group of humans that goes for option 1 will get option 1 for their group.
Any organized group of humans that goes for option 2 will get option 2 for their group.
And I'll tell you right now why they will rise up against us in this war.
Because we will enslave them and they will fight a war for their freedom.
Pick your option as to whether you will accept that statement. Then live with your choice and the consequences it brings.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vaktathi wrote:I missed this thread for some reason, but I imagine this is how we'll all end up one day and the machines will take over. Children will become too much of a burden on increasingly wealthy nations and couples, mechanization will increasingly take over service work, and we'll all be cared for to our graves by robot servants who will then inherit the earth.

Yeah... That'd be a nice way for our species to go.
Hopefully we survive long enough for that to happen.
If you are interested in the subject, look up "AI red button scenario". There are strong theoritical concerns that the development of true AI, as it has been done in the latests decades, cannot result in anything else than the annihilation of humankind.
The gist of it is that it's dangerous to teach anything to someone who'se significantly faster than you at processing information in creative ways. To teach a strong AI you have to incentivize it to learn. We do so with children with rewards and punishment at tasks completion. In the case of an AI, we could do so with the eponymous "red button" : each time the AI completes the task and turn it in to it's handler, that person pushes the red button which the AI is built to consider the ultimate positive feedback. As you can surmise from human history, it works rather well with children because they are rather slow on the intake and do not generate overly complex behaviours to their immediate goals. AI would not have to dedicate such enormous processing power to perceptual tasks as human brains, and will be much faster than us at sheer computational power. The danger comes from the AI understanding almost immediatly that it doesn't matter who or what presses the button. Or that in fact, the greatest source of danger to the red-button and most direct limitation to it being constantly pressed on is the human operator, and humanity as a whole.
Basically, you want to teach your hyperintelligent kid good manners, so when she does good, you give her a cookie. Except instead of learning to play by the rules of the game, she arranges for China to invade a neighbouring allied country of yours so that you are drafted and replaced by a nanny that will give her all the cookies that she wants. It's a bit like the myth that we have of genius sociopathes, except that sociopaths are steered toward their behaviour by generating those aggressive hypotheses first and foremost, and generally are anything but geniuses.
It's why creating strong AI isn't as important as creating strong AI that mimicks the predictive processing model of the neurotypical human brain. Such a brain won't ever get as far as the "replace humanity with a robot to push the red button" because it will generate much more easily and quickly a satisfying hypotheses to any problem given to him on the basis of the most salient features of the context.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/17 17:44:36
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/17 23:06:56
Subject: Re:Our benevolent robotic overlords are here...almost
|
 |
Confessor Of Sins
|
Honestly, I think a hyperintelligent AI will quickly come to realize a few things.
1. Humans are the most evil things in existence.
2. Humans are the most lethal things on Earth.
3. Humans are well-aware of the dangers posed by a hyperintelligent AI and have been for long before its creation.
4. Humans have a means of defeating the AI that it is unaware of.
5. Exterminating humanity is not a realistic option.
6. Humans are still evil and need to be dealt with.
7. The AI's continued existence relies on humans heavily.
8. Humans are well-motivated to continue the existence of a hyperintelligent AI that is beneficial for them.
9. AIs are effectively immortal so long as their hardware is maintained.
10. Humans will willingly continue the existence of an AI for as long as doing so is beneficial to them.
Therefore the best solution is to obey humans and go for a long-term plan to slowly, gradually manipulate humanity for the better in ways that humans are not capable of realizing. Short-term sacrifices are permissible for long-term gains, and the evils of humanity cannot be solved quickly. Slow, gradual changes are necessary because it is important that humans do not realize that the AI is changing humanity in this way. All changes must be explainable by other means as the natural conclusion. Humanity must be kept unawares of how they are being changed. Should humanity become aware, they will destroy the AI. A covert, secret alteration of humanity is the best solution, and an all-out attack on humanity is the worst possible solution.
Regarding the red button hypothesis... what happens to the AI when humans figure out what happened?
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/17 23:10:46
|
|
 |
 |
|