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+ Baal Strike Force +

Chaplain
- Crozius
- Valours Edge
- Jump pack
125
Rides with the Death Company for those sweet rerolls.

x2 5 man Tactical Squads
- Heavy Flamers
- x2 Hand Flamers
- Melta bombs
Rhinos
- Dozer blades
- Storm bolters
320
Drive around, burning stuff from the hatch.

10 man Sternguard Veteran Squad
- x10 combi-meltas
Drop Pod
355
Drop down, melt a tank, then lay some fancy dakka.

x2 Furioso Dreadnoughts
- Frag cannons
- Heavy flamers
- Magna grapples
Drop Pods
Drop down, shotgun the hell out of something and then die a distraction

10 man Death Company Squad
- x8 bolt pistols + chainswords
- x2 bolt guns + power fists
- Jump packs
280
Jumps up covering behind tanks, then pulls people apart limb from limb

Land Speeder Squadron
- x2 Land speeders
- x2 multi-meltas each
160
mobile anti-tank, advancing under cover.

Baal Predator
- Flamestorm cannon
- Heavy bolter sponsons
- Dozer blade
- Storm bolter
145
Burns stuff out of cover. Heavy flamers instead?

Vindicator
- Dozer blade
- Overcharged engines
135
Kaboom.

1850

What do we all think? I don't have access to Angels Blade so DC Chaplain is unfortunately not an option.

I'd go with a dakka Baal instead of the flamestorm cannon.

I'm not a fan of the vindicator, but it might work in this case.

Martel732 wrote:
I'd go with a dakka Baal instead of the flamestorm cannon.

I'm not a fan of the vindicator, but it might work in this case.

So far the Flamestorm cannon has proved decidedly more useful than the assault cannon though.

Another person recommended I get a 2nd Vindi in fact, or ideally a third. I don't have massive options in my current collection.

The flamestorm cannon turns the thing into a suicide tank, though. Or do you find this not the case?

Martel732 wrote:
The flamestorm cannon turns the thing into a suicide tank, though. Or do you find this not the case?

Well I've played one game as a Dakka Baal, it kinda sprayed ineffectively and then died.
Second game was like this Baal, it got shaken first turn, and died the second.
Third game it roasted a squad of Ork Warbikes, but by that time all the action was happening across the map so it couldn't catch up to do more.
So I guess that's to say out of 3 games, the flamestorm was the most effective.

It tends to by the Furiosos that absorb all the AT fire for me. They get one solid turn in, then die.

I can't believe people would shoot at a dakka Baal over a vindicator.

Martel732 wrote:
I can't believe people would shoot at a dakka Baal over a vindicator.

Didn't have the Vindi in the first game, and it died turn 1 on the second game.

That's usually what happens to them.

Martel732 wrote:
That's usually what happens to them.

Well third game it hit a rock and threw a track, despite the dozerblade. Commander then spent the game yelling at the Orks to walk in front of it.

Actually, vindicators with siege shields are IMMUNE to terrain tests.

Martel732 wrote:
Actually, vindicators with siege shields are IMMUNE to terrain tests.

I only had a dozer blade. 5pts cheaper and it's not like a 1/36th is ever gonna happen

Oh. Hmmm. I didn't even know that was an option for the vindi lol.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
+ Baal Strike Force +

Chaplain
- Crozius
- Valours Edge
- Jump pack
125
Rides with the Death Company for those sweet rerolls.

x2 5 man Tactical Squads
- Heavy Flamers
- x2 Hand Flamers
- Melta bombs
Rhinos
- Dozer blades
- Storm bolters
320
Drive around, burning stuff from the hatch.

10 man Sternguard Veteran Squad
- x10 combi-meltas
Drop Pod
355
Drop down, melt a tank, then lay some fancy dakka.

x2 Furioso Dreadnoughts
- Frag cannons
- Heavy flamers
- Magna grapples
Drop Pods
Drop down, shotgun the hell out of something and then die a distraction

10 man Death Company Squad
- x8 bolt pistols + chainswords
- x2 bolt guns + power fists
- Jump packs
280
Jumps up covering behind tanks, then pulls people apart limb from limb

Land Speeder Squadron
- x2 Land speeders
- x2 multi-meltas each
160
mobile anti-tank, advancing under cover.

Baal Predator
- Flamestorm cannon
- Heavy bolter sponsons
- Dozer blade
- Storm bolter
145
Burns stuff out of cover. Heavy flamers instead?

Vindicator
- Dozer blade
- Overcharged engines
135
Kaboom.

1850

What do we all think? I don't have access to Angels Blade so DC Chaplain is unfortunately not an option.

This isn't supposed to be rude or anything, but it seems to me that this list doesn't really know what it's doing. However, I commend you for building an incredibly fluffy list. Case in point:

The MSU approach you have adopted is great if you plan on using the rhinos and tac squads to capture objectives; but the Baal Strike Force doesn't confer Objective Secured. All this is going to achieve is making your squads easier to kill and thus gift kill points to your opponent. The Baal Strike force isn't particularly keen on small squads of Tactical Marines. It doesn't give Objective Secured, and the whole point of the +1 Initiative is to make you deadlier in assault. With this in mind, it's easy to understand why people view Tacticals as a tax unit.
To get the most out of the formations bonus, it would make sense to pick troops that belong in assault. For instance, a 10 man squad of CCW and bolt pistol scouts with a veteran sergeant with a power sword can kill as many as 6 Space Marines on the charge before they even hit back while only costing you 135pts. That is a bargain. Scout and infiltrate them up the field and mess up some Long Fangs. There is also the option of Cassor the Damned who is nothing short of AWESOME. My God, he can mess up literally anything in the game. Land Raider? Gone. Monstrous Creature? Gone. Horde of Ork Boyz? Gone. His usefulness is universal and I take him in almost every list. Also, he's a Character so he can challenge out any Sergeant who has a Power Fist and squish him before he hits. BONUS POINT: The Blood Angel Primaris power (D3 attacks and Initiative) turns him into an absolute GOD with a potential 11 attacks at Initiative 8 and S10. Bye, bye pretty much anything.
If you're dead set on using Tactical Marines in the Baal Strike Force, it's best to make them as choppy as possible in order to chase other units off Objectives and claim kill points. With this in mind, the Heavy Flamer is the only heavy weapon option even worth considering. It's an assault weapon, which means you can make use of your furious charge and still fire it. Also, it's awesome and fluffy to boot. As far as special weapons go, you don't want anything that rapid fired. So no plasma guns., either take a melta or a flamer. This way, you can fire your fancy toys and still charge. Consider making your sergeant a veteran and giving him a power sword to make the most out of attacking first, or do as you are doing and lay down some pistols at dawn action with your gunslinger hand flamer wielding badass. This squad WILL put in work and fits in perfectly with the fluff of what a BA tactical squad should be.

I love Sternguard. Once again, universally useful and great in an All Comers list that can deal with eldar in cover, 3+ saves and monstrous creatures. The combi meltas are good here, but 10 is just overkill. It's gonna be difficult for you to make use of all of them as 3 meltas tend to put down a land raider pretty easily. So unless you can drop down on turn 2 and find land raiders to shoot in the next 3 turns it's a bit off a waste. Also means you've wasted your special ammunition. Also, it doesn't play into BA strengths as we have (imo) the BEST form of melta delivery as we can drop pod in 2 meltas and 2 infernus pistols for just 155pts in a 5 man Assault Squad. After destroying the threat, tie up the unit inside it for a turn just to annoy your opponent.

Death Company squad has been compiled perfectly, the power fists give you the ability to laugh off any walker that gives you trouble and the Chaplain will let you pimp slap Wulfven furries like the punks they are.


This next bit is where I'm confused. Why the Furioso's? The Frag cannon is awesome, but it excels against light infantry like cultists, orks and Tyranids. Sure, rending is nice but isn't reliable enough to use against things with a 3+ save, which makes me think you've designed this list to deal with filthy xenos. Good plan, as my Furioso just loves to nom on tyranids with assault 2 S6 rending templates and then his heavy flamer before attacking with 5 WS5 attacks at initiative before informing the termagaunts that their weapons are useless and sweeping them. However, then you equip the flamestorm on the baal pred. If you're facing xeno, then it should be dakka pred and dakka dread. If its marines, it should be flamey pred and punchy dread. It's better to synchronize your list, and if you want a TAC list then go with Dakka pred and punchy pred, it's the best mix imo.

My main concern with this list is that you have a very high chance of just being shot off the board and forced to concede first turn. You lack any long ranged or real anti tank weaponry. The Baal Pred is gonna die first turn. No way anyone's gonna let you get that thing close to them. Although the vindi is fast, it'll be difficult for you to get into range and get a shot off without being wrecked next turn.

The Land Speeder fits into the BA philosophy: fast and packs a punch. But it should only be taken if you have long ranged tanks like tri las preds to make your opponent choose between what to destroy. Any competent commander is gonna be able to immobalise the pred and the vindy (making them useless) before forcing the speeders to jink and making them useless.

Why does the Chaplain have Valours Edge? Are you going to be sending him after Terminators? If not, stick to the crozius.

Upon consideration, you have a decent amount of anti tank but it just isn't spread out enough or have a viable way of making it's points back or is going to be destroyed first turn.

Frag cannons work great vs 3+ armor because of wound spam.

Cassor the Damned wrote:
...

Oh please do tell it like it is I love the in depth response.
I'm not going to lie, a lot of this is due to what I own. I'm trying to bring my army in a direction, but I have to collect pretty slowly and I'm being tugged in at least 2 different directions by all sorts of things. The key debate is a drop pod list, or a tracked list. So do I buy lots of Drop Pods, or lots of tanks being the operative question.
All the transport I currently own is in this list.
I'm a new face in my new gaming group, currently the 4 armies I've seen are Guard, Orks, Smurfs and Ad Mec.

I own zero scouts, so although I could spend my next purchase on 10 of them, that's not an immediate option (although this list isn't immediate either)
I had debated giving my Tactical sergeants power swords instead of the dual hand flamers, but I felt like the squad could perform better riding around and shooting out of the Rhino.
I don't own a Cassor currently, but I could get one. That'd take up my next purchase though and force someone out of 1 of my 3 Drop Pods. Although he is awesome, and I can get his rules
Every list I've included a psyker of whatever stripe I always get told that single psykers are a waste, and at 1850pts I don't see how I can fit more without sacrificing too much.

I've only recently got my Sternguard, and I must say I heavily underestimated how good Hellfire rounds are . Mathhammer says 5 meltas should be just about enough to destroy any non-super heavy, if I'm lucky they could down one of those too. The 10 of them is such that I could destroy 2 vehicles, or guarantee a single vital kill. But I agree they're not the cheapest. The only other melta I currently own are Jump Pack Assault Marines. So certainly not ideal for the job. I could buy some more, but again they'd kick someone out of a Drop Pod.

My Death Company are actually borrowed from my Assault Marines as they're already built perfectly I play Flesh Tearers so half the time I'm asked if they're Death Company even when they weren't.

The list is certainly meant to be a TACs type, and Fragiosos have the benefit of not being much worse in combat than Fistiosos and tougher than Death Company Dreads. Plus they really, really hurt Orks.
And honestly one once has a Dreadnought of mine lived to see combat. And that because a Knight voluntarily charged it, which didn't end well for my poor Dread. Although in fairness it would have gone roughly twice as good if I had known about the +2A FAQ at the time.
Do you mean a Dakka Baal Pred, or a Dakka Pred Pred? I could do either honestly (once I figure out how to magnetise an autocannon into my Baal Preds mantlet).

I am contemplating buying a Tri-Las Pred instead of the Landspeeders, this list was largely seeing how they sat so to speak. Pred would also have the benefit of being a Rhino should I need that instead.

I took Valour's Edge because I assumed that quite a lot of big characters have 2+ saves, and since my Chaplain would be the only character in the Death Company squad I thought that Valour's Edge would be good to have against any Mega-Bosses or Artificer Captains or whatever.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
Frag cannons work great vs 3+ armour because of wound spam.

That was my thinking as well. Also the first turn strike capacity reduces the loss when they immediately die, saving my tanks.

I kill meqs all the time with frag cannons. They even work well against armies that can put a 2+ armor guy in there, because if you land closest to him, you can make him take the rends.

 kirotheavenger wrote:

Cassor the Damned wrote:
...

Oh please do tell it like it is I love the in depth response.
I'm not going to lie, a lot of this is due to what I own. I'm trying to bring my army in a direction, but I have to collect pretty slowly and I'm being tugged in at least 2 different directions by all sorts of things. The key debate is a drop pod list, or a tracked list. So do I buy lots of Drop Pods, or lots of tanks being the operative question.
All the transport I currently own is in this list.
I'm a new face in my new gaming group, currently the 4 armies I've seen are Guard, Orks, Smurfs and Ad Mec.

I own zero scouts, so although I could spend my next purchase on 10 of them, that's not an immediate option (although this list isn't immediate either)
I had debated giving my Tactical sergeants power swords instead of the dual hand flamers, but I felt like the squad could perform better riding around and shooting out of the Rhino.
I don't own a Cassor currently, but I could get one. That'd take up my next purchase though and force someone out of 1 of my 3 Drop Pods. Although he is awesome, and I can get his rules
Every list I've included a psyker of whatever stripe I always get told that single psykers are a waste, and at 1850pts I don't see how I can fit more without sacrificing too much.

I've only recently got my Sternguard, and I must say I heavily underestimated how good Hellfire rounds are . Mathhammer says 5 meltas should be just about enough to destroy any non-super heavy, if I'm lucky they could down one of those too. The 10 of them is such that I could destroy 2 vehicles, or guarantee a single vital kill. But I agree they're not the cheapest. The only other melta I currently own are Jump Pack Assault Marines. So certainly not ideal for the job. I could buy some more, but again they'd kick someone out of a Drop Pod.

My Death Company are actually borrowed from my Assault Marines as they're already built perfectly I play Flesh Tearers so half the time I'm asked if they're Death Company even when they weren't.

The list is certainly meant to be a TACs type, and Fragiosos have the benefit of not being much worse in combat than Fistiosos and tougher than Death Company Dreads. Plus they really, really hurt Orks.
And honestly one once has a Dreadnought of mine lived to see combat. And that because a Knight voluntarily charged it, which didn't end well for my poor Dread. Although in fairness it would have gone roughly twice as good if I had known about the +2A FAQ at the time.
Do you mean a Dakka Baal Pred, or a Dakka Pred Pred? I could do either honestly (once I figure out how to magnetise an autocannon into my Baal Preds mantlet).

I am contemplating buying a Tri-Las Pred instead of the Landspeeders, this list was largely seeing how they sat so to speak. Pred would also have the benefit of being a Rhino should I need that instead.

I took Valour's Edge because I assumed that quite a lot of big characters have 2+ saves, and since my Chaplain would be the only character in the Death Company squad I thought that Valour's Edge would be good to have against any Mega-Bosses or Artificer Captains or whatever.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
Frag cannons work great vs 3+ armour because of wound spam.

That was my thinking as well. Also the first turn strike capacity reduces the loss when they immediately die, saving my tanks.

Man, I honestly feel your pain. I found Blood Angels to be incredibly difficult to collect as there is a plethora of options and our elites slots are heavily overcrowded. The main issue is, like you said, drop pods. Because BA's love dreads and meltacide we have to spend an incredible amount on them and it's difficult to prioritize what needs to be bought first.

When it comes to a drop pod or track list, I would defiantly say drop pod. While both are very fluffy and Blood Angels are on of the few chapters that can do rhino spam well, most armies can handle rhinos with ease. Blood Angels get loads of ways for reserve manipulation, so drop pods are probably the way to go. Something to consider though, 8th edition is right around the corner and you don't want to spend a load of money on drop pods only for 8th to drop and find out that rhino spam is where it's at now. It's unlikely, but possible. So it might be a good idea to hold off on any transport for now and focus on what you want in the transports.

The armies you've seen are a pretty even mix, which is gonna make it even more difficult to order your purchases. You appear to be very unlucky in faction choice and meta but you'll come out off it a better player because you've had to inspect each unit so intensely to justify your purchase.

I wouldn't buy scouts right away, they're cool and are useful at times, but if this is all you own so far I'd probably go for Cassor or a 5 man sniper team to keep costs down.

Gunslinger is awesome bro, there is nothing quite like firing 4 flame templates into an Ork squad and just melting them. Power swords are cool, but an argument can be made for both. Maybe with your next squad build a power sword sergeant, but just for the sake of variety.

Cassor would be a great buy as it really makes your opponent have to consider target priority. Also, DC dreads are awesome. That's all there is to it. However, if you feel your army needs something different then go for it.

Your friends are right about how librarians are best brought in numbers, and if you're just starting collecting BA then its probably best to steer clear of them for the moment. No matter how awesome our psykers are.

Fragioso is awesome and can put in serious work against low save units. It can, as you and forlorn said, handle MEQ quite well. However, this is not it's specialty and I would much rather have an extra AP2 S10 attack and a meltagun then the frag cannon when facing MEQ. I also find it adds to the units versatility as it can reliably shoot at tanks. This is just my personal preference, and your army should be based off of your opinion alone. If it's a TAC list, then it doesn't matter that much which loadout you take and it largely depends on what the rest of your army has. That being said, the frag cannon is unique to the BA (and the deathwatch) and it has more potential then the extra fist. I'd probably go fragioso.

Dakka Baal pred, once again it's fluffy and is easy to maneuver because it's fast and just lay the pain on 4+ units.

I would definitely go for the pred over land speeders if you're building a drop pod heavy army. You need to get some shots downrange and survive in that first turn before your guys get in. The tri las can do this and do it well, potentially destroying a key part of your opponents arsenal.

While your right about Valours edge being great for taking down super characters with a 2+, it needs to be in the hands of a super character to be useful. An initiative 4 chaplain is gonna get killed by a super character LONG before he can swing back with his dope AP2 sword. I find it excels most in the hands of captains and librarians. Captains as they are naturally built for combat and Librarians because our primaris can boost our initiative and attacks scarily high, allowing us to strike first and possibly kill the other guy. If you have the warp charges spare, you can use Force as well and Instant Death any non Eternal Warrior with absolute ease.

Something I was taught early in the game was something that I have found true to this day. Never bring something just so it can die and never bring something as a "tax" unit If you view your tactical squad as a tax unit, the beef them up with special weapons and heavy weapons and veteran sergeants with power weapons and maybe even throw in a Character until it is no longer a tax and now a useful addition to your army. Yes, it will cost points but you would have spent those points turning something good into very good. It's better to make something bad into good then good into very good.

Don't bring fragiosos just to die. They're a lot of points and can do so much damage if you invest in ways to keep them alive. If they're dieing first turn then make use of cover, deploy away from melta and target something you know you can destroy. Face front armour at the greatest threat, even if it means you miss a good shot; you'll get another chance and you dont want the opponent to take a kill point. Overload your enemy with dreads in pods and deepstriking DC until they panic and shoot at everything and do minimal damage to everything. Then destroy him.

I've always found all -pod lists pretty fluffy, from a fluss perspective I'm not too fond of a partial pod army. But I don't dislike that either.

I've got a bunch of S.Guard and TH/SS Termies in the wings, as well as two priests, a Termie libby and a regular libby.
The sergeants, Sternguard, characters and one dread can all be whatever loadout.
I've recently come back from a long hiatus caused by the current codex pulling all my troops out from under me :(

I've often heard that scouts went CCW>shotguns>bolters>snipers in terms of goodness.

I defiantely see that angle on Valour's Edge though. I suppose nothing says weight of attacks like some Ped off adeath Company.

My Fragiosos don't seem to just die, they get a good shooting phase then die because they take all the AT guns, so my Vindi and Baal tend to survive despite every saying they die so I'd imagine a dual claw Dread wouldn't even get a solid shooting phase.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
I've always found all -pod lists pretty fluffy, from a fluss perspective I'm not too fond of a partial pod army. But I don't dislike that either.

I've got a bunch of S.Guard and TH/SS Termies in the wings, as well as two priests, a Termie libby and a regular libby.
The sergeants, Sternguard, characters and one dread can all be whatever loadout.
I've recently come back from a long hiatus caused by the current codex pulling all my troops out from under me :(

I've often heard that scouts went CCW>shotguns>bolters>snipers in terms of goodness.

I defiantely see that angle on Valour's Edge though. I suppose nothing says weight of attacks like some Ped off adeath Company.

My Fragiosos don't seem to just die, they get a good shooting phase then die because they take all the AT guns, so my Vindi and Baal tend to survive despite every saying they die so I'd imagine a dual claw Dread wouldn't even get a solid shooting phase.

I couldn't agree more, if you're gonna do something then do it right. Drop pods are especially great when brought in numbers from a BA fluff perspective and in crunnch as it really saturates your oponents sense of target priority and more often than not they will panic and fore pop shots at everything and do no real damage.

Sanguinary Guard are once again a very fluffy unit that can do extremely well against all armies so long as they are built well. First off, avoid the axes. They look awesome but you can use them on another model and they are useless on San Guard because if they get into a fight against anything that has a 2+ save then you have already lost and the axes are only going to make a tiny difference. A 5 man squad with swords and the banner can kill an entire unit of MEQ before they even get to hit you, for just 195pts. Also, don't underestimate their angelus boltguns. At AP4, they're denying around 70% off the game their armour save. It is definitely not a bad sidearm. The only thing to be careful of is to not shoot yourself out of assault range. To avoid this, get right into the enemies face before shooting.

TH/SS are good at killing deathstars, though people say they die to easily to small arms fire. Just send them at the biggest threat on the table and kill it, you'll probably make your points back. You have a really good range of HQ's there that are the BA's best choices as they all buff us in assault. My favourite HQ is the San priest with an assault squad as it makes them good enough to go toe to toe with a squad of termies on their own just through weight of attacks and makes them into mini DC marines. Seriously, point for point their damage output is very similar.

Valours edge is an awesome relic. 20pts for AP2 at initiative is nothing to sneer at, but it just wont do what it should in the hands of a chaplain. A chaplains job isn't to go toe to toe with a super character. He is there to challenge out mediocre characters like Veteran Sergeants and Apothecaries. The crozius will be able to handle them with ease. If a super character challenges him, just say no and let the DC kill him for you.

With BA scouts you either go CC weapon or snipers. Boltguns are crap on them. Shotguns are Assault 2 so are kinda ok, but you're getting an extra S4 shot w/ the shotgun but losing a S5 attack in melee.
CC is fluffy and fun. However, BA snipers are very important for one reason. We love our dreadnoughts and our fast fragile tanks like vindis and predators. So many squads have a sergeant with a power fist or combi melta these days, and if they get close to a dreadnought they will kill it. The solution? Snipe their sergeant from a mile away before he can even get close. The other great thing is they are very cost effective. A scout squad w/ snipers is 60 pts. A sergeant usually costs around: 14pts base + 25pts for a power fist + 10pts for a combi weapon + 15pts to become a veteran. This is a very expensive loadout at 64pts but is common. Kill a sergeant a turn (easy peasy because 6's to wound are AP2 and it is poisoned 4+) and you can kill 320pts worth of sergeants w/ them. It's unlikely your opponent will field that many pts of sergeant, but you can easily double your points back.

Super funny and trolly tactic:
1. Snipe and kill the Sergeant
2.Charge your dreadnought in and kill a few of them.
3. The "Our weapons are useless" rule comes in and they run.
4. You sweep them.

Works like a charm and makes the opponent rage when they see just how hard you outplayed them.

If they get a good round of shooting in then that's good. Extra good that they die protecting your tanks, and it is a tried and tested strategy. It's probably my love of dreads coming in because when my dreads die I wanna cry

You can post all the units you currently own and what your budget is for your next purchase if you would like some advice on where to go first

I don't think pods are the best overall plan for BA. Drop pods turn off our furious charge and allow for all kinds of spoiling assaults. Also, pods force you to commit very early and if your opponent is playing some kind of null deploy strategy you can lose right there.

I don't use snipers because no one I play with gears up sergeants that way. They kill dreads with dakka or WKs at init 5.

Martel732 wrote:
I don't think pods are the best overall plan for BA. Drop pods turn off our furious charge and allow for all kinds of spoiling assaults. Also, pods force you to commit very early and if your opponent is playing some kind of null deploy strategy you can lose right there.

I don't use snipers because no one I play with gears up sergeants that way. They kill dreads with dakka or WKs at init 5.

There are certainly many counters to a drop pod army. However, I do still think it is our best shot for a TAC list. What alternative do you use? For me, running up the table is suicide and rhinos are just too weak to be spammed effectively. I play snipers if I'm playing 2 or more dreads. It's almost like an automatic response for me at this moment. If I'm not running dreads, then my troop options for BSF tend to be:

1. Cassor the Damned: Because our elite slot is so overcrowded (and I like to take as many as possible) it's great to me to be able to take an Elite unit in a troop slot.
2. 10 man scout squad w/ CCW and a veteran sergeant w/ power sword. I'll scout and infiltrate up field and bully units that can't fight back like Devastators, Long Fangs or any kind of xeno scum. If you're in a pinch, they can be useful for chasing squads off of objectives too. I've actually beat back a few units of grey hunters w/ these.
3. 10 man tactical marine squad w/ Heavy Flamer + flamer and either dual hand flamers on the sergeant (if I have sniper scouts and thus don't have to be worried about challenges) or if I have no sniper scouts then I'll go Veteran Sergeant w/ power sword. All weapons that excel on the charge, where we can make use of our chapter tactic.

I actually never have had a problem with ba elite slots. I run out of fast attack first. BA elites are generally overpriced. I typically use rhinos and pods. I really like rhinos for heavy flamer tacs.

Martel732 wrote:
I actually never have had a problem with ba elite slots. I run out of fast attack first. BA elites are generally overpriced. I typically use rhinos and pods. I really like rhinos for heavy flamer tacs.

I like having a mix between the two, when your rhinos and drop pods all bear down on the opponent at the same time it's a real handful for them. I never have a problem with fast attacks slot, I use dedicated transports so I don't need to worry about rhinos or pods. My fast attacks are nearly always Assault Marines, I find it really difficult to choose between Sternguard, Fragioso, Death Company and Sanguinary Guard.

Hmm, I own off the top of my head.
12 S.Guard, 8 swords, 2 fists, 2 axes (+2 optional banners)
10 TH/SS Terminators
22 jump pack assault marines, 4 melta guns, 2 P.fists, 2 dual L.claws. (currently 8 scrubs + the 2 fists form my DC)
20 tactical marines, 2 whatever special weapons, 2 multi meltas/H.flamers, 2 sergeants with whatever.
2 Furiosos - with 2 frag cannons, 1 set of blood claws, force halberd.
2x Rhinos with whatever (including 1 heavy bolter Razorback)
3x drop pods with whatever.
2 S.Priests, bolt pistols and swords
Terminator Librarian
Librarian with force sword, either backpack/jumppack
chaplain, crozius, whatever, and either backpack/jumppack
Dante
Predator, heavy bolter sponsons, autocannon, assault cannon or flamestorm cannon turret
10 Sternguard, all with combi-meltas or bolters, sergeant has whatever

I think that's it. I'm not against fanagling WYSIWYG within the boundaries of logic.
Budget sits ideally in the £30s, but I could extent it to ~£45 if it's worth it. I like building my own stuff as well.
So 1-2 boxs really.


Previously I've used S.Guard, but I've recently tried switching them out for Death Company. Haven't played enough to see the results though.

I didn't think snipers would be that great specifically for sniping characters. As every 5 shots fired still only results in a 20% chance to kill a Space Marine sergeant.
Plus I dislike the sniper scout models, but not so much the regular scouts. And although I have a plan to do sniper scouts if I ever, that plan doesn't work for CCW scouts. Which would mean my scouts don't match. #FirstWorldProblems.

Also your tactic about sniping the sergeant and sweeping the unit wouldn't work against Space Marines, ATSKNF stops them dying.

I do love Dreadnoughts I get far too emotion as well, it's like I'm actually witnessing the death of a centuries old warrior I also recently read a book about a Dreadnought. Someone definitely started cutting onions in that room.

I rarely use SG or sternguard. That makes a big difference. I use a lot of bikes, attack bikes, and speeders though.

Pretty sure you can LoS precision shots, which kills it for me.

Martel732 wrote:

Pretty sure you can LoS precision shots, which kills it for me.

that too, 10% of a sergeant dead per turn then.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Hmm, I own off the top of my head.
12 S.Guard, 8 swords, 2 fists, 2 axes (+2 optional banners)
10 TH/SS Terminators
22 jump pack assault marines, 4 melta guns, 2 P.fists, 2 dual L.claws. (currently 8 scrubs + the 2 fists form my DC)
20 tactical marines, 2 whatever special weapons, 2 multi meltas/H.flamers, 2 sergeants with whatever.
2 Furiosos - with 2 frag cannons, 1 set of blood claws, force halberd.
2x Rhinos with whatever (including 1 heavy bolter Razorback)
3x drop pods with whatever.
2 S.Priests, bolt pistols and swords
Terminator Librarian
Librarian with force sword, either backpack/jumppack
chaplain, crozius, whatever, and either backpack/jumppack
Dante
Predator, heavy bolter sponsons, autocannon, assault cannon or flamestorm cannon turret
10 Sternguard, all with combi-meltas or bolters, sergeant has whatever

I think that's it. I'm not against fanagling WYSIWYG within the boundaries of logic.
Budget sits ideally in the £30s, but I could extent it to ~£45 if it's worth it. I like building my own stuff as well.
So 1-2 boxs really.


Previously I've used S.Guard, but I've recently tried switching them out for Death Company. Haven't played enough to see the results though.

I didn't think snipers would be that great specifically for sniping characters. As every 5 shots fired still only results in a 20% chance to kill a Space Marine sergeant.
Plus I dislike the sniper scout models, but not so much the regular scouts. And although I have a plan to do sniper scouts if I ever, that plan doesn't work for CCW scouts. Which would mean my scouts don't match. #FirstWorldProblems.

Also your tactic about sniping the sergeant and sweeping the unit wouldn't work against Space Marines, ATSKNF stops them dying.

I do love Dreadnoughts I get far too emotion as well, it's like I'm actually witnessing the death of a centuries old warrior I also recently read a book about a Dreadnought. Someone definitely started cutting onions in that room.

Been playing too much 30k recently and forgot that you can't sweep SM in 40k

If you don't like the models definitely don't buy them. They already fulfill a niche role and if they're ugly to you then you'll never field them.

I tend to roll 6's alot w/ my snipers (never w/ frag cannons for some reasons, wish it was the other way around lol) so I tend to kill at lease 2 sergeants a game with snipers. The best part for me is that they are cheap and aren't a complete waste.

You've got so much already that I don't even know what to suggest. I'd probably go w/ a DC dread and a drop pod, just to give yourself some more options. After that CCW scouts and definitely get some form of long range anti tank like a tri las pred or some devastators. A stormraven may solve your problems as you'll get anti tank and a way to ferry a marine unit and a dread, freeing up two drop pods for someone else. Also, lascannon and multi melta are twin linked and great at tank busting. Very fluffy too. But it's getting expensive then, and that fits into the way I play. As forlorn proved w/ his bikes and land speeders, there are lots of ways to play Blood Angels.

Cassor the Damned wrote:

Been playing too much 30k recently and forgot that you can't sweep SM in 40k

If you don't like the models definitely don't buy them. They already fulfill a niche role and if they're ugly to you then you'll never field them.

I tend to roll 6's alot w/ my snipers (never w/ frag cannons for some reasons, wish it was the other way around lol) so I tend to kill at lease 2 sergeants a game with snipers. The best part for me is that they are cheap and aren't a complete waste.

You've got so much already that I don't even know what to suggest. I'd probably go w/ a DC dread and a drop pod, just to give yourself some more options. After that CCW scouts and definitely get some form of long range anti tank like a tri las pred or some devastators. A stormraven may solve your problems as you'll get anti tank and a way to ferry a marine unit and a dread, freeing up two drop pods for someone else. Also, lascannon and multi melta are twin linked and great at tank busting. Very fluffy too. But it's getting expensive then, and that fits into the way I play. As forlorn proved w/ his bikes and land speeders, there are lots of ways to play Blood Angels.

It's not that I dislike the models, if anything I prefer what I would do for Snipers to CCW scouts, but the issue is that then Sniper scouts wouldn't match my CCW scouts.

I'm the guy that loses a Terminator Librarian to a single Guardsmen with a Lasgun on overwatch, I'd rather not tempt dice when the odds are so stacked against me anyways.

1850 is I think where I'll be spending most of my time, So I wouldn't think I'd get much use out of another Dreadnought, at least not until I've got enough Pods to do an all-pods army. And so far I rather enjoy my Tacticals, so get the Predator?

 kirotheavenger wrote:

Cassor the Damned wrote:

Been playing too much 30k recently and forgot that you can't sweep SM in 40k

If you don't like the models definitely don't buy them. They already fulfill a niche role and if they're ugly to you then you'll never field them.

I tend to roll 6's alot w/ my snipers (never w/ frag cannons for some reasons, wish it was the other way around lol) so I tend to kill at lease 2 sergeants a game with snipers. The best part for me is that they are cheap and aren't a complete waste.

You've got so much already that I don't even know what to suggest. I'd probably go w/ a DC dread and a drop pod, just to give yourself some more options. After that CCW scouts and definitely get some form of long range anti tank like a tri las pred or some devastators. A stormraven may solve your problems as you'll get anti tank and a way to ferry a marine unit and a dread, freeing up two drop pods for someone else. Also, lascannon and multi melta are twin linked and great at tank busting. Very fluffy too. But it's getting expensive then, and that fits into the way I play. As forlorn proved w/ his bikes and land speeders, there are lots of ways to play Blood Angels.

It's not that I dislike the models, if anything I prefer what I would do for Snipers to CCW scouts, but the issue is that then Sniper scouts wouldn't match my CCW scouts.

I'm the guy that loses a Terminator Librarian to a single Guardsmen with a Lasgun on overwatch, I'd rather not tempt dice when the odds are so stacked against me anyways.

1850 is I think where I'll be spending most of my time, So I wouldn't think I'd get much use out of another Dreadnought, at least not until I've got enough Pods to do an all-pods army. And so far I rather enjoy my Tacticals, so get the Predator?

Definitely get the Pred and give it overcharged engines.

I'm the guy that loses a Terminator Librarian to a single Guardsmen with a Lasgun on overwatch,

This made me laugh way too much