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whembly wrote: Okay. You can thank Harry Reid for allowing Trump/GOP senators to push through their nominees.
No, we can thank the republican party for electing Trump, and rubber-stamping her nomination. Stop trying to deflect blame. It's like saying "The holocaust was the western power's fault, because of the reparations they made Germany pay."
I'm not absolving the blame on Trump/GOP Senators.
But, merely pointing out that Harry Reid nuking the filibuster is the reason *why* we're getting appointees like DeVos...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/08 16:50:57
I'm sure that most of the Senate Democrats opposing Betsy DeVos think they are opposing an inexperienced billionaire whose secret dream is to loot public school coffers for...what, exactly? Some sort of bizarre right-wing agenda, I suppose. DeVos' brother did start the company called Blackwater, so maybe her dedication to giving poor kids more options than they would otherwise have is really a way of helping her bro staff his mercenary forces?
Or maybe it's just a more simple misunderstanding, one rooted in special-interest politics. The Democrats are closely allied with teachers unions, who threatened by any and all changes to the educational status quo. So of course they oppose Betsy DeVos and they will use any club on the ground to beat down her chances. But to the extent that DeVos—and Trump, too, who has been outspoken on the need for more school choice—are in favor of giving more students and more parents more choices when it comes educating their kids, they are on the side of the angels. A recent poll found that 68 percent of Americans favor expanding school choice, including 55 percent of self-described Democrats, 75 percent among Latinos, 75 percent among millennials, and 72 percent among blacks. Contemporary politics may not allow partisans to admit that (or even see it), but for those of us who are neither pro-Trump across the board or always anti-Democratic Party, the conversation surrounding the DeVos nomination is everything that's wrong with Washington.
Source check:
You picked a blog post from Reason, a Libertarian Magazine, that found those numbers from the American Federation for Children, a conservative group that promotes school privatization and WAS LED BY BETSY DEVOS UP UNTIL NOVEMBER OF LAST YEAR.
I am sure that had no effects on the conclusions they drew.
My wife worked in the Private school sector for a stint. She was not happy with the way it was run and treated students. They were seen more as cash machines that students, offering "help" with loan decisions and ways they can "help" the student get more money to stay in school, which usually put that person into crippling debt.
Even if we blame Reid for making it harder to fillibuster, which is fair, it's a distant 3rd or 4th rung failsafe brake, not the primaey failing here. It doesnt change the fact that DeVos has no business in the post but was nominated and pushed by the administration anyway, was confirmed by the overwhelmingly vast majority of Republicans along direct party lines save for 2 holdouts after the most disastrous and embarrassing confirmation hearing I can ever recall, and made the job after the administration cast the tie breaking vote for their own person, coupled with all sorts of absurd procedural games on both sides.
If the fillibuster is the only way to keep an obviously inappropriate candidate from the position, a lot else has failed first.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
I'm sure that most of the Senate Democrats opposing Betsy DeVos think they are opposing an inexperienced billionaire whose secret dream is to loot public school coffers for...what, exactly? Some sort of bizarre right-wing agenda, I suppose. DeVos' brother did start the company called Blackwater, so maybe her dedication to giving poor kids more options than they would otherwise have is really a way of helping her bro staff his mercenary forces?
Or maybe it's just a more simple misunderstanding, one rooted in special-interest politics. The Democrats are closely allied with teachers unions, who threatened by any and all changes to the educational status quo. So of course they oppose Betsy DeVos and they will use any club on the ground to beat down her chances. But to the extent that DeVos—and Trump, too, who has been outspoken on the need for more school choice—are in favor of giving more students and more parents more choices when it comes educating their kids, they are on the side of the angels. A recent poll found that 68 percent of Americans favor expanding school choice, including 55 percent of self-described Democrats, 75 percent among Latinos, 75 percent among millennials, and 72 percent among blacks. Contemporary politics may not allow partisans to admit that (or even see it), but for those of us who are neither pro-Trump across the board or always anti-Democratic Party, the conversation surrounding the DeVos nomination is everything that's wrong with Washington.
Source check:
You picked a blog post from Reason, a Libertarian Magazine, that found those numbers from the American Federation for Children, a conservative group that promotes school privatization and WAS LED BY BETSY DEVOS UP UNTIL NOVEMBER OF LAST YEAR.
Booker (a rumored 2020 Democratic PotUS candidate) has been a proponent of school choice for years, something showcased in the 2010 documentary The Lottery. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1515935/
Newark has gone through, in the last decade, an astonishing change, when it comes to school choice, when it comes to a massive expansion of opportunities for our children.
Things that I talked about with people in this room, more than a decade ago, that were some of my toughest political battles, now have become a reality, with about 40 percent of our kids not just in charter schools, but we have one of the top-three highest-performing charter sectors in the United States of America.
In fact, in my city, which is majority-African-American, the number of kids now that are going to schools that beat the state proficiency average over the last decade has gone up 300 percent for African-American children, and the number of African-American kids going to high-performing schools has gone up 200 percent. Newark was just noticed by a [Center on Reinventing Public Education] study of schools … [as] the no. 1 city in American for so-called “beat-the-odds” schools that are high-poverty and high performing.
We have a lot to brag about in Newark, in this cauldron of educational creativity we’ve created, that has been liberating the choice of our parents.
As the Brookings Institution said, Newark is now the no. 4 city in the country for offering parents real school choice.
So for me, this is not an academic discussion anymore. This, to me, is families that I know, neighborhoods. I’ve seen the kind of transformation that could be made. I see how kids who have no history of college in their families suddenly had the arc of their families’ trajectory changed, as they’ve been liberated from what I call the imprisonment of institutions of failure, and now have pathways to institutions of excellence, all the way through college.
HOUSTON — It’s looking as if 2017 could become the year when the anti-vaccination movement gains ascendancy in the United States and we begin to see a reversal of several decades in steady public health gains. The first blow will be measles outbreaks in America.
Measles is one of the most contagious and most lethal of all human diseases. A single person infected with the virus can infect more than a dozen unvaccinated people, typically infants too young to have received their first measles shot. Such high levels of transmissibility mean that when the percentage of children in a community who have received the measles vaccine falls below 90 percent to 95 percent, we can start to see major outbreaks, as in the 1950s when four million Americans a year were infected and 450 died. Worldwide, measles still kills around 100,000 children each year.
The myth that vaccines like the one that prevents measles are connected to autism has persisted despite rock-solid proof to the contrary. Donald Trump has given credence to such views in tweets and during a Republican debate, but as president he has said nothing to support vaccination opponents, so there is reason to hope that his views are changing.
However, a leading proponent of the link between vaccines and autism said he recently met with the president to discuss the creation of a presidential commission to investigate vaccine safety. Such a commission would be a throwback to the 2000s, when Representative Dan Burton of Indiana held fruitless hearings and conducted investigations on this topic. And a documentary alleging a conspiracy at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, “Vaxxed: From Cover-Up to Catastrophe,” has recently been shown around the country.
As a scientist leading global efforts to develop vaccines for neglected poverty-related diseases like schistosomiasis and Chagas’ disease, and as the dad of an adult daughter with autism and other disabilities, I’m worried that our nation’s health will soon be threatened because we have not stood up to the pseudoscience and fake conspiracy claims of this movement.
Texas, where I live and work, may be the first state to once again experience serious measles outbreaks. As of last fall, more than 45,000 children here had received nonmedical exemptions for their school vaccinations. A political action committee is raising money to protect this “conscientious exemption” loophole and to instruct parents on how to file for it. As a result, some public school systems in the state are coming dangerously close to the threshold when measles outbreaks can be expected, and a third of students at some private schools are unvaccinated.
The American Academy of Pediatrics has produced a 21-page document listing all of the studies clearly showing there is no link between vaccines and autism, in addition to more recent epidemiological studies involving hundreds of thousands of children or pregnant women that also refute any association. A study of infant rhesus monkeys also shows that vaccination does not produce neurobiological changes in the brain.
Vaccines are clearly not the reason children develop autism. So what is? There is strong evidence that genetics play a role, and that defects in the brain of children on the autism spectrum occur during pregnancy. Exposure during early pregnancy to particular chemicals in the environment or infections could be involved. Researchers have suggested that damage could be done by the drugs thalidomide, misoprostol and valproic acid; by exposure to the insecticide chlorpyrifos; and by infection of the mother with the rubella virus.
This is what we need to be focusing on, not the myth that vaccines cause autism. Yet I fear that such myths will be used to justify new rounds of hearings or unwarranted investigations of federal agencies, including the C.D.C. This would only distract attention from these agencies’ crucial work, and the real needs of families with children on the autism spectrum, such as mental health services, work-entry programs for adults and support for the research being done by the National Institutes of Health.
Today, parents in Texas have to live in fear that something as simple as a trip to the mall or the library could expose their babies to measles and that a broader outbreak could occur. Perpetuating phony theories about vaccines and autism isn’t going to help them — and it’s not going to help children on the autism spectrum, either.
There's also the issue that illegal aliens are bringing in formerly vaxxed out diseases. Hooping cough, TB, and measles are again a thing here because of that.
That's why there's calls from medical professional to require guest to bring immunization records, and vaccinate at ports of entries as needed.
Something when detaining illegals... at least vaccinate them before releasing them back to the public.
I'd be 100% OK with that (with their consent of course). Helps us, helps them, for a minimum of cost.
Their consent. They consented when they crossed our border illegally.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/08 16:58:22
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Vaktathi wrote: Even if we blame Reid for making it harder to fillibuster, which is fair, it's a distant 3rd or 4th rung failsafe brake, not the primaey failing here. It doesnt change the fact that DeVos has no business in the post but was nominated and pushed by the administration anyway, was confirmed by the overwhelmingly vast majority of Republicans along direct party lines save for 2 holdouts after the most disastrous and embarrassing confirmation hearing I can ever recall, and made the job after the administration cast the tie breaking vote for their own person, coupled with all sorts of absurd procedural games on both sides.
If the fillibuster is the only way to keep an obviously inappropriate candidate from the position, a lot else has failed first.
I fully support the party of personal responsibility for taking no responsibility personally
Side Note: I've recently discovered Dave Rubin and the Rubin Report, and his politics and outlooks match my own so closely that its kind of scary. Is anyone else a fan, and if so, could you recommend any other media figures coming from a similar angle?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/02/08 17:04:22
You can completely disregard the Reason blog post if you want but school choice isn't just a Republican issue.
My problem isn't with school choice. My problem is when school choice is advocated by a person and an administration with a political agenda to fuel privatized unregulated religious schools at the cost of secular public schools.
DeVos working in conjunction with others that have differing political views isn't scary. DeVos in charge with a free pass to implement her own ideological goals is.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/08 17:08:06
HOUSTON — It’s looking as if 2017 could become the year when the anti-vaccination movement gains ascendancy in the United States and we begin to see a reversal of several decades in steady public health gains. The first blow will be measles outbreaks in America.
Measles is one of the most contagious and most lethal of all human diseases. A single person infected with the virus can infect more than a dozen unvaccinated people, typically infants too young to have received their first measles shot. Such high levels of transmissibility mean that when the percentage of children in a community who have received the measles vaccine falls below 90 percent to 95 percent, we can start to see major outbreaks, as in the 1950s when four million Americans a year were infected and 450 died. Worldwide, measles still kills around 100,000 children each year.
The myth that vaccines like the one that prevents measles are connected to autism has persisted despite rock-solid proof to the contrary. Donald Trump has given credence to such views in tweets and during a Republican debate, but as president he has said nothing to support vaccination opponents, so there is reason to hope that his views are changing.
However, a leading proponent of the link between vaccines and autism said he recently met with the president to discuss the creation of a presidential commission to investigate vaccine safety. Such a commission would be a throwback to the 2000s, when Representative Dan Burton of Indiana held fruitless hearings and conducted investigations on this topic. And a documentary alleging a conspiracy at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, “Vaxxed: From Cover-Up to Catastrophe,” has recently been shown around the country.
As a scientist leading global efforts to develop vaccines for neglected poverty-related diseases like schistosomiasis and Chagas’ disease, and as the dad of an adult daughter with autism and other disabilities, I’m worried that our nation’s health will soon be threatened because we have not stood up to the pseudoscience and fake conspiracy claims of this movement.
Texas, where I live and work, may be the first state to once again experience serious measles outbreaks. As of last fall, more than 45,000 children here had received nonmedical exemptions for their school vaccinations. A political action committee is raising money to protect this “conscientious exemption” loophole and to instruct parents on how to file for it. As a result, some public school systems in the state are coming dangerously close to the threshold when measles outbreaks can be expected, and a third of students at some private schools are unvaccinated.
The American Academy of Pediatrics has produced a 21-page document listing all of the studies clearly showing there is no link between vaccines and autism, in addition to more recent epidemiological studies involving hundreds of thousands of children or pregnant women that also refute any association. A study of infant rhesus monkeys also shows that vaccination does not produce neurobiological changes in the brain.
Vaccines are clearly not the reason children develop autism. So what is? There is strong evidence that genetics play a role, and that defects in the brain of children on the autism spectrum occur during pregnancy. Exposure during early pregnancy to particular chemicals in the environment or infections could be involved. Researchers have suggested that damage could be done by the drugs thalidomide, misoprostol and valproic acid; by exposure to the insecticide chlorpyrifos; and by infection of the mother with the rubella virus.
This is what we need to be focusing on, not the myth that vaccines cause autism. Yet I fear that such myths will be used to justify new rounds of hearings or unwarranted investigations of federal agencies, including the C.D.C. This would only distract attention from these agencies’ crucial work, and the real needs of families with children on the autism spectrum, such as mental health services, work-entry programs for adults and support for the research being done by the National Institutes of Health.
Today, parents in Texas have to live in fear that something as simple as a trip to the mall or the library could expose their babies to measles and that a broader outbreak could occur. Perpetuating phony theories about vaccines and autism isn’t going to help them — and it’s not going to help children on the autism spectrum, either.
There's also the issue that illegal aliens are bringing in formerly vaxxed out diseases. Hooping cough, TB, and measles are again a thing here because of that.
That's why there's calls from medical professional to require guest to bring immunization records, and vaccinate at ports of entries as needed.
Something when detaining illegals... at least vaccinate them before releasing them back to the public.
I'd be 100% OK with that (with their consent of course). Helps us, helps them, for a minimum of cost.
Their consent. They consented when they crossed our border illegally.
You want to perform medical procedures on people without their consent? Are you out of your mind?
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
HOUSTON — It’s looking as if 2017 could become the year when the anti-vaccination movement gains ascendancy in the United States and we begin to see a reversal of several decades in steady public health gains. The first blow will be measles outbreaks in America.
Measles is one of the most contagious and most lethal of all human diseases. A single person infected with the virus can infect more than a dozen unvaccinated people, typically infants too young to have received their first measles shot. Such high levels of transmissibility mean that when the percentage of children in a community who have received the measles vaccine falls below 90 percent to 95 percent, we can start to see major outbreaks, as in the 1950s when four million Americans a year were infected and 450 died. Worldwide, measles still kills around 100,000 children each year.
The myth that vaccines like the one that prevents measles are connected to autism has persisted despite rock-solid proof to the contrary. Donald Trump has given credence to such views in tweets and during a Republican debate, but as president he has said nothing to support vaccination opponents, so there is reason to hope that his views are changing.
However, a leading proponent of the link between vaccines and autism said he recently met with the president to discuss the creation of a presidential commission to investigate vaccine safety. Such a commission would be a throwback to the 2000s, when Representative Dan Burton of Indiana held fruitless hearings and conducted investigations on this topic. And a documentary alleging a conspiracy at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, “Vaxxed: From Cover-Up to Catastrophe,” has recently been shown around the country.
As a scientist leading global efforts to develop vaccines for neglected poverty-related diseases like schistosomiasis and Chagas’ disease, and as the dad of an adult daughter with autism and other disabilities, I’m worried that our nation’s health will soon be threatened because we have not stood up to the pseudoscience and fake conspiracy claims of this movement.
Texas, where I live and work, may be the first state to once again experience serious measles outbreaks. As of last fall, more than 45,000 children here had received nonmedical exemptions for their school vaccinations. A political action committee is raising money to protect this “conscientious exemption” loophole and to instruct parents on how to file for it. As a result, some public school systems in the state are coming dangerously close to the threshold when measles outbreaks can be expected, and a third of students at some private schools are unvaccinated.
The American Academy of Pediatrics has produced a 21-page document listing all of the studies clearly showing there is no link between vaccines and autism, in addition to more recent epidemiological studies involving hundreds of thousands of children or pregnant women that also refute any association. A study of infant rhesus monkeys also shows that vaccination does not produce neurobiological changes in the brain.
Vaccines are clearly not the reason children develop autism. So what is? There is strong evidence that genetics play a role, and that defects in the brain of children on the autism spectrum occur during pregnancy. Exposure during early pregnancy to particular chemicals in the environment or infections could be involved. Researchers have suggested that damage could be done by the drugs thalidomide, misoprostol and valproic acid; by exposure to the insecticide chlorpyrifos; and by infection of the mother with the rubella virus.
This is what we need to be focusing on, not the myth that vaccines cause autism. Yet I fear that such myths will be used to justify new rounds of hearings or unwarranted investigations of federal agencies, including the C.D.C. This would only distract attention from these agencies’ crucial work, and the real needs of families with children on the autism spectrum, such as mental health services, work-entry programs for adults and support for the research being done by the National Institutes of Health.
Today, parents in Texas have to live in fear that something as simple as a trip to the mall or the library could expose their babies to measles and that a broader outbreak could occur. Perpetuating phony theories about vaccines and autism isn’t going to help them — and it’s not going to help children on the autism spectrum, either.
There's also the issue that illegal aliens are bringing in formerly vaxxed out diseases. Hooping cough, TB, and measles are again a thing here because of that.
That's why there's calls from medical professional to require guest to bring immunization records, and vaccinate at ports of entries as needed.
Something when detaining illegals... at least vaccinate them before releasing them back to the public.
I'd be 100% OK with that (with their consent of course). Helps us, helps them, for a minimum of cost.
Their consent. They consented when they crossed our border illegally.
Sorry to disappoint you, but we have these things here called "laws" and "courts", you might have heard them. It means that we can't just do whatever we want to people we arrest.
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
jasper76 wrote: Side Note: I've recently discovered Dave Rubin and the Rubin Report, and his politics and outlooks match my own so closely that its kind of scary. Is anyone else a fan, and if so, could you recommend any other media figures coming from a similar angle?
without commenting on the content (heard a bit of his stuff, some I agree with some I disagree with) I would warn that shows like this, regardless of bent, are inherently big echo chambers that do a lot to reinforce existing thought disguised as discourse, and looking for things of a similar bent would seem to be searching for more of what youre already thinking, and one should always bear this in mind and be aware of it.
Generally anything based on the presenters personality I find falls into this trap.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
You can completely disregard the Reason blog post if you want but school choice isn't just a Republican issue.
My problem isn't with school choice. My problem is when school choice is advocated by a person and an administration with a political agenda to fuel privatized unregulated religious schools at the cost of secular public schools.
DeVos working in conjunction with others that have differing political views isn't scary. DeVos in charge with a free pass to implement her own ideological goals is.
Pretty much this. Although I'm not a fan of charter schools (as I am adverse to giving private institutions tax dollars to do something that the public sector can do) that's just a disagreement on policy. And I certainly could see them doing at least some good depending on the area. But it's the combination of taking money away from public education to give to private education, and the resistance to actually having those private institutions kept accountable that is the issue.
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
HOUSTON — It’s looking as if 2017 could become the year when the anti-vaccination movement gains ascendancy in the United States and we begin to see a reversal of several decades in steady public health gains. The first blow will be measles outbreaks in America.
Measles is one of the most contagious and most lethal of all human diseases. A single person infected with the virus can infect more than a dozen unvaccinated people, typically infants too young to have received their first measles shot. Such high levels of transmissibility mean that when the percentage of children in a community who have received the measles vaccine falls below 90 percent to 95 percent, we can start to see major outbreaks, as in the 1950s when four million Americans a year were infected and 450 died. Worldwide, measles still kills around 100,000 children each year.
The myth that vaccines like the one that prevents measles are connected to autism has persisted despite rock-solid proof to the contrary. Donald Trump has given credence to such views in tweets and during a Republican debate, but as president he has said nothing to support vaccination opponents, so there is reason to hope that his views are changing.
However, a leading proponent of the link between vaccines and autism said he recently met with the president to discuss the creation of a presidential commission to investigate vaccine safety. Such a commission would be a throwback to the 2000s, when Representative Dan Burton of Indiana held fruitless hearings and conducted investigations on this topic. And a documentary alleging a conspiracy at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, “Vaxxed: From Cover-Up to Catastrophe,” has recently been shown around the country.
As a scientist leading global efforts to develop vaccines for neglected poverty-related diseases like schistosomiasis and Chagas’ disease, and as the dad of an adult daughter with autism and other disabilities, I’m worried that our nation’s health will soon be threatened because we have not stood up to the pseudoscience and fake conspiracy claims of this movement.
Texas, where I live and work, may be the first state to once again experience serious measles outbreaks. As of last fall, more than 45,000 children here had received nonmedical exemptions for their school vaccinations. A political action committee is raising money to protect this “conscientious exemption” loophole and to instruct parents on how to file for it. As a result, some public school systems in the state are coming dangerously close to the threshold when measles outbreaks can be expected, and a third of students at some private schools are unvaccinated.
The American Academy of Pediatrics has produced a 21-page document listing all of the studies clearly showing there is no link between vaccines and autism, in addition to more recent epidemiological studies involving hundreds of thousands of children or pregnant women that also refute any association. A study of infant rhesus monkeys also shows that vaccination does not produce neurobiological changes in the brain.
Vaccines are clearly not the reason children develop autism. So what is? There is strong evidence that genetics play a role, and that defects in the brain of children on the autism spectrum occur during pregnancy. Exposure during early pregnancy to particular chemicals in the environment or infections could be involved. Researchers have suggested that damage could be done by the drugs thalidomide, misoprostol and valproic acid; by exposure to the insecticide chlorpyrifos; and by infection of the mother with the rubella virus.
This is what we need to be focusing on, not the myth that vaccines cause autism. Yet I fear that such myths will be used to justify new rounds of hearings or unwarranted investigations of federal agencies, including the C.D.C. This would only distract attention from these agencies’ crucial work, and the real needs of families with children on the autism spectrum, such as mental health services, work-entry programs for adults and support for the research being done by the National Institutes of Health.
Today, parents in Texas have to live in fear that something as simple as a trip to the mall or the library could expose their babies to measles and that a broader outbreak could occur. Perpetuating phony theories about vaccines and autism isn’t going to help them — and it’s not going to help children on the autism spectrum, either.
There's also the issue that illegal aliens are bringing in formerly vaxxed out diseases. Hooping cough, TB, and measles are again a thing here because of that.
That's why there's calls from medical professional to require guest to bring immunization records, and vaccinate at ports of entries as needed.
Something when detaining illegals... at least vaccinate them before releasing them back to the public.
I'd be 100% OK with that (with their consent of course). Helps us, helps them, for a minimum of cost.
Their consent. They consented when they crossed our border illegally.
You want to perform medical procedures on people without their consent? Are you out of your mind?
Vaccines? yea. They are prisoners. Prisoners typically do not have rights in this regard.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Fraz, where in your law are the police given the right to forcibly inject prisoners with anything which is not required for lifesaving treatment (or the death penalty)?
And what will happen when someone who you just forcibly injected has an allergic reaction to it?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/08 17:23:26
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
HOUSTON — It’s looking as if 2017 could become the year when the anti-vaccination movement gains ascendancy in the United States and we begin to see a reversal of several decades in steady public health gains. The first blow will be measles outbreaks in America.
Measles is one of the most contagious and most lethal of all human diseases. A single person infected with the virus can infect more than a dozen unvaccinated people, typically infants too young to have received their first measles shot. Such high levels of transmissibility mean that when the percentage of children in a community who have received the measles vaccine falls below 90 percent to 95 percent, we can start to see major outbreaks, as in the 1950s when four million Americans a year were infected and 450 died. Worldwide, measles still kills around 100,000 children each year.
The myth that vaccines like the one that prevents measles are connected to autism has persisted despite rock-solid proof to the contrary. Donald Trump has given credence to such views in tweets and during a Republican debate, but as president he has said nothing to support vaccination opponents, so there is reason to hope that his views are changing.
However, a leading proponent of the link between vaccines and autism said he recently met with the president to discuss the creation of a presidential commission to investigate vaccine safety. Such a commission would be a throwback to the 2000s, when Representative Dan Burton of Indiana held fruitless hearings and conducted investigations on this topic. And a documentary alleging a conspiracy at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, “Vaxxed: From Cover-Up to Catastrophe,” has recently been shown around the country.
As a scientist leading global efforts to develop vaccines for neglected poverty-related diseases like schistosomiasis and Chagas’ disease, and as the dad of an adult daughter with autism and other disabilities, I’m worried that our nation’s health will soon be threatened because we have not stood up to the pseudoscience and fake conspiracy claims of this movement.
Texas, where I live and work, may be the first state to once again experience serious measles outbreaks. As of last fall, more than 45,000 children here had received nonmedical exemptions for their school vaccinations. A political action committee is raising money to protect this “conscientious exemption” loophole and to instruct parents on how to file for it. As a result, some public school systems in the state are coming dangerously close to the threshold when measles outbreaks can be expected, and a third of students at some private schools are unvaccinated.
The American Academy of Pediatrics has produced a 21-page document listing all of the studies clearly showing there is no link between vaccines and autism, in addition to more recent epidemiological studies involving hundreds of thousands of children or pregnant women that also refute any association. A study of infant rhesus monkeys also shows that vaccination does not produce neurobiological changes in the brain.
Vaccines are clearly not the reason children develop autism. So what is? There is strong evidence that genetics play a role, and that defects in the brain of children on the autism spectrum occur during pregnancy. Exposure during early pregnancy to particular chemicals in the environment or infections could be involved. Researchers have suggested that damage could be done by the drugs thalidomide, misoprostol and valproic acid; by exposure to the insecticide chlorpyrifos; and by infection of the mother with the rubella virus.
This is what we need to be focusing on, not the myth that vaccines cause autism. Yet I fear that such myths will be used to justify new rounds of hearings or unwarranted investigations of federal agencies, including the C.D.C. This would only distract attention from these agencies’ crucial work, and the real needs of families with children on the autism spectrum, such as mental health services, work-entry programs for adults and support for the research being done by the National Institutes of Health.
Today, parents in Texas have to live in fear that something as simple as a trip to the mall or the library could expose their babies to measles and that a broader outbreak could occur. Perpetuating phony theories about vaccines and autism isn’t going to help them — and it’s not going to help children on the autism spectrum, either.
There's also the issue that illegal aliens are bringing in formerly vaxxed out diseases. Hooping cough, TB, and measles are again a thing here because of that.
That's why there's calls from medical professional to require guest to bring immunization records, and vaccinate at ports of entries as needed.
Something when detaining illegals... at least vaccinate them before releasing them back to the public.
I'd be 100% OK with that (with their consent of course). Helps us, helps them, for a minimum of cost.
Their consent. They consented when they crossed our border illegally.
You want to perform medical procedures on people without their consent? Are you out of your mind?
Vaccines? yea. They are prisoners. Prisoners typically do not have rights in this regard.
Prisoners have the right to refuse treatment...they absolutely have that right unless they are judged not to be of sound mind.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
jasper76 wrote: Side Note: I've recently discovered Dave Rubin and the Rubin Report, and his politics and outlooks match my own so closely that its kind of scary. Is anyone else a fan, and if so, could you recommend any other media figures coming from a similar angle?
without commenting on the content (heard a bit of his stuff, some I agree with some I disagree with) I would warn that shows like this, regardless of bent, are inherently big echo chambers that do a lot to reinforce existing thought disguised as discourse, and looking for things of a similar bent would seem to be searching for more of what youre already thinking, and one should always bear this in mind and be aware of it.
Generally anything based on the presenters personality I find falls into this trap.
Actually one of the things I like so much about his show is the diversity of thought represented by his guests. I find it one of the least echo-chamberish things I've seen in a while. One of the main points of the show IME is to tear down echo chambers. I'm actually looking for more shows and media outlets that also draw in people from diverse viewpoints, so I can be exposed to new and challenging ideas.
That said, I'm actually pretty good at avoiding the echo-chamber stuff. I spend alot of energy trying to understand my "opponent's" points of view. But thank you for the warning.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/08 17:27:01
HOUSTON — It’s looking as if 2017 could become the year when the anti-vaccination movement gains ascendancy in the United States and we begin to see a reversal of several decades in steady public health gains. The first blow will be measles outbreaks in America.
Measles is one of the most contagious and most lethal of all human diseases. A single person infected with the virus can infect more than a dozen unvaccinated people, typically infants too young to have received their first measles shot. Such high levels of transmissibility mean that when the percentage of children in a community who have received the measles vaccine falls below 90 percent to 95 percent, we can start to see major outbreaks, as in the 1950s when four million Americans a year were infected and 450 died. Worldwide, measles still kills around 100,000 children each year.
The myth that vaccines like the one that prevents measles are connected to autism has persisted despite rock-solid proof to the contrary. Donald Trump has given credence to such views in tweets and during a Republican debate, but as president he has said nothing to support vaccination opponents, so there is reason to hope that his views are changing.
However, a leading proponent of the link between vaccines and autism said he recently met with the president to discuss the creation of a presidential commission to investigate vaccine safety. Such a commission would be a throwback to the 2000s, when Representative Dan Burton of Indiana held fruitless hearings and conducted investigations on this topic. And a documentary alleging a conspiracy at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, “Vaxxed: From Cover-Up to Catastrophe,” has recently been shown around the country.
As a scientist leading global efforts to develop vaccines for neglected poverty-related diseases like schistosomiasis and Chagas’ disease, and as the dad of an adult daughter with autism and other disabilities, I’m worried that our nation’s health will soon be threatened because we have not stood up to the pseudoscience and fake conspiracy claims of this movement.
Texas, where I live and work, may be the first state to once again experience serious measles outbreaks. As of last fall, more than 45,000 children here had received nonmedical exemptions for their school vaccinations. A political action committee is raising money to protect this “conscientious exemption” loophole and to instruct parents on how to file for it. As a result, some public school systems in the state are coming dangerously close to the threshold when measles outbreaks can be expected, and a third of students at some private schools are unvaccinated.
The American Academy of Pediatrics has produced a 21-page document listing all of the studies clearly showing there is no link between vaccines and autism, in addition to more recent epidemiological studies involving hundreds of thousands of children or pregnant women that also refute any association. A study of infant rhesus monkeys also shows that vaccination does not produce neurobiological changes in the brain.
Vaccines are clearly not the reason children develop autism. So what is? There is strong evidence that genetics play a role, and that defects in the brain of children on the autism spectrum occur during pregnancy. Exposure during early pregnancy to particular chemicals in the environment or infections could be involved. Researchers have suggested that damage could be done by the drugs thalidomide, misoprostol and valproic acid; by exposure to the insecticide chlorpyrifos; and by infection of the mother with the rubella virus.
This is what we need to be focusing on, not the myth that vaccines cause autism. Yet I fear that such myths will be used to justify new rounds of hearings or unwarranted investigations of federal agencies, including the C.D.C. This would only distract attention from these agencies’ crucial work, and the real needs of families with children on the autism spectrum, such as mental health services, work-entry programs for adults and support for the research being done by the National Institutes of Health.
Today, parents in Texas have to live in fear that something as simple as a trip to the mall or the library could expose their babies to measles and that a broader outbreak could occur. Perpetuating phony theories about vaccines and autism isn’t going to help them — and it’s not going to help children on the autism spectrum, either.
There's also the issue that illegal aliens are bringing in formerly vaxxed out diseases. Hooping cough, TB, and measles are again a thing here because of that.
That's why there's calls from medical professional to require guest to bring immunization records, and vaccinate at ports of entries as needed.
Something when detaining illegals... at least vaccinate them before releasing them back to the public.
I'd be 100% OK with that (with their consent of course). Helps us, helps them, for a minimum of cost.
Their consent. They consented when they crossed our border illegally.
Sorry to disappoint you, but we have these things here called "laws" and "courts", you might have heard them. It means that we can't just do whatever we want to people we arrest.
Well... I don't think we can force immunizations when we get our grubby hands on them...
But, we can make it a requirement for entry/staying in the states... that is, if you wanna state, get immunized. If not, go on home. (absent extenuating circumstances of course... allergies, etc...)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/08 17:30:30
I just find most politics podcasts/shows to be very easy traps to fall into mentally. I love Dan Carlins history podcasts but avoid his politics stuff because I find myself largely doing nothing but agreeing with the few I heard and started getting that "hey wait...this is all stuff you already agree with" vibe. I'd like to think its just all "common sense" stuff, as his politics podcast is titled, but find that, like anyone else, I too am.vulnerable to echo chambers and try to minimize it, with varying degrees of success ,
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
You can completely disregard the Reason blog post if you want but school choice isn't just a Republican issue.
My problem isn't with school choice. My problem is when school choice is advocated by a person and an administration with a political agenda to fuel privatized unregulated religious schools at the cost of secular public schools.
DeVos working in conjunction with others that have differing political views isn't scary. DeVos in charge with a free pass to implement her own ideological goals is.
Why do you think the Sec of Ed can just arbitrarily give money to charter schools? Charter schools are governed by the states that license them and federal funding can only be given to states with the state's consent and if the conditions set forth under federal education laws are met.
A Town Called Malus wrote: Fraz, where in your law are the police given the right to forcibly inject prisoners with anything which is not required for lifesaving treatment (or the death penalty)?
And what will happen when someone who you just forcibly injected has an allergic reaction to it?
you're kidding right?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
HOUSTON — It’s looking as if 2017 could become the year when the anti-vaccination movement gains ascendancy in the United States and we begin to see a reversal of several decades in steady public health gains. The first blow will be measles outbreaks in America.
Measles is one of the most contagious and most lethal of all human diseases. A single person infected with the virus can infect more than a dozen unvaccinated people, typically infants too young to have received their first measles shot. Such high levels of transmissibility mean that when the percentage of children in a community who have received the measles vaccine falls below 90 percent to 95 percent, we can start to see major outbreaks, as in the 1950s when four million Americans a year were infected and 450 died. Worldwide, measles still kills around 100,000 children each year.
The myth that vaccines like the one that prevents measles are connected to autism has persisted despite rock-solid proof to the contrary. Donald Trump has given credence to such views in tweets and during a Republican debate, but as president he has said nothing to support vaccination opponents, so there is reason to hope that his views are changing.
However, a leading proponent of the link between vaccines and autism said he recently met with the president to discuss the creation of a presidential commission to investigate vaccine safety. Such a commission would be a throwback to the 2000s, when Representative Dan Burton of Indiana held fruitless hearings and conducted investigations on this topic. And a documentary alleging a conspiracy at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, “Vaxxed: From Cover-Up to Catastrophe,” has recently been shown around the country.
As a scientist leading global efforts to develop vaccines for neglected poverty-related diseases like schistosomiasis and Chagas’ disease, and as the dad of an adult daughter with autism and other disabilities, I’m worried that our nation’s health will soon be threatened because we have not stood up to the pseudoscience and fake conspiracy claims of this movement.
Texas, where I live and work, may be the first state to once again experience serious measles outbreaks. As of last fall, more than 45,000 children here had received nonmedical exemptions for their school vaccinations. A political action committee is raising money to protect this “conscientious exemption” loophole and to instruct parents on how to file for it. As a result, some public school systems in the state are coming dangerously close to the threshold when measles outbreaks can be expected, and a third of students at some private schools are unvaccinated.
The American Academy of Pediatrics has produced a 21-page document listing all of the studies clearly showing there is no link between vaccines and autism, in addition to more recent epidemiological studies involving hundreds of thousands of children or pregnant women that also refute any association. A study of infant rhesus monkeys also shows that vaccination does not produce neurobiological changes in the brain.
Vaccines are clearly not the reason children develop autism. So what is? There is strong evidence that genetics play a role, and that defects in the brain of children on the autism spectrum occur during pregnancy. Exposure during early pregnancy to particular chemicals in the environment or infections could be involved. Researchers have suggested that damage could be done by the drugs thalidomide, misoprostol and valproic acid; by exposure to the insecticide chlorpyrifos; and by infection of the mother with the rubella virus.
This is what we need to be focusing on, not the myth that vaccines cause autism. Yet I fear that such myths will be used to justify new rounds of hearings or unwarranted investigations of federal agencies, including the C.D.C. This would only distract attention from these agencies’ crucial work, and the real needs of families with children on the autism spectrum, such as mental health services, work-entry programs for adults and support for the research being done by the National Institutes of Health.
Today, parents in Texas have to live in fear that something as simple as a trip to the mall or the library could expose their babies to measles and that a broader outbreak could occur. Perpetuating phony theories about vaccines and autism isn’t going to help them — and it’s not going to help children on the autism spectrum, either.
There's also the issue that illegal aliens are bringing in formerly vaxxed out diseases. Hooping cough, TB, and measles are again a thing here because of that.
That's why there's calls from medical professional to require guest to bring immunization records, and vaccinate at ports of entries as needed.
Something when detaining illegals... at least vaccinate them before releasing them back to the public.
I'd be 100% OK with that (with their consent of course). Helps us, helps them, for a minimum of cost.
Their consent. They consented when they crossed our border illegally.
You want to perform medical procedures on people without their consent? Are you out of your mind?
Vaccines? yea. They are prisoners. Prisoners typically do not have rights in this regard.
Prisoners have the right to refuse treatment...they absolutely have that right unless they are judged not to be of sound mind.
Then immediately deport them. Belay that, immediately deport them anyway.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
A Town Called Malus wrote: Fraz, where in your law are the police given the right to forcibly inject prisoners with anything which is not required for lifesaving treatment (or the death penalty)?
And what will happen when someone who you just forcibly injected has an allergic reaction to it?
We require that all children get vaccinated before being allowed to go to school. Kids aren't immune to side effects or bad reactions to immunizations but it's still required because of the public health danger of non immunized kids going to school.
A Town Called Malus wrote: Fraz, where in your law are the police given the right to forcibly inject prisoners with anything which is not required for lifesaving treatment (or the death penalty)?
And what will happen when someone who you just forcibly injected has an allergic reaction to it?
We require that all children get vaccinated before being allowed to go to school. Kids aren't immune to side effects or bad reactions to immunizations but it's still required because of the public health danger of non immunized kids going to school.
That is a requirement to attend school (and it should be, in my opinion). It is not, in any way shape or form, the same as the police coming into your home and forcibly injecting your kids after you decided not to get them vaccinated.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Frazzled wrote: Their consent. They consented when they crossed our border illegally.
That's quite bad. It might not be a cruel punishment, but it's definitely, undeniably an unusual punishment. And also not allowed by the law, and should not be.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
Children aren't held at the mercy of jailers. Forced medical procedures, even if it's just a flu shot, under what is effectively duress is something that I'd rather keep in the realm of mad Nazi Herr Doktors in bad pulp fiction than real life.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
A Town Called Malus wrote: Fraz, where in your law are the police given the right to forcibly inject prisoners with anything which is not required for lifesaving treatment (or the death penalty)?
And what will happen when someone who you just forcibly injected has an allergic reaction to it?
We require that all children get vaccinated before being allowed to go to school. Kids aren't immune to side effects or bad reactions to immunizations but it's still required because of the public health danger of non immunized kids going to school.
That is a requirement to attend school (and it should be, in my opinion). It is not, in any way shape or form, the same as the police coming into your home and forcibly injecting your kids after you decided not to get them vaccinated.
There were some here on this board who's in favor of exactly that... even, to the point to having the state taking custody...
World citizen donates money to Clinton foundation, receives audience with HRC =pay for play politics, proof positive that HRC is corrupt to the core.
American citizen donates money to political party, receives Cabinet position they are in no way qualified to hold = no worries, show me the quid pro quo.
I'm not arguing one side is bad and the other is not. I'm saying money influences politics on all sides. You can't handwavium this gak ,man.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
I just find most politics podcasts/shows to be very easy traps to fall into mentally. I love Dan Carlins history podcasts but avoid his politics stuff because I find myself largely doing nothing but agreeing with the few I heard and started getting that "hey wait...this is all stuff you already agree with" vibe. I'd like to think its just all "common sense" stuff, as his politics podcast is titled, but find that, like anyone else, I too am.vulnerable to echo chambers and try to minimize it, with varying degrees of success ,
I hear you. With Rubin in particular, I guess I feel that moderate liberals are grossly underrepresented in the media, so it's a breath of fresh air to me, especially in these days of hyper-ventilation and people taking past each other. But I'll certainly keep the echo-chamber thing in mind while watching.
And how much do we spend on sports?
In my time in Germany, I noticed that schools had largely divorced themselves from sport activities... Playing on the varsity X team at school isn't the path to the professional game for most european youngsters. I realize that English schools do quite often have football and rugby teams associated with them, but look at the cost to run/maintain those programs, and compare that to the cost of a scholastic American Football or baseball program.
Their consent. They consented when they crossed our border illegally.
