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So i was just asked to commision paint the new Blood Rage board game set, https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/blood-rage
Standard set has around 50 minis, 5 hero type minis needing some exstra love. and 4-5 Big monster type minis.

Talking with the guy, he said tabletop standard was fine with the infantry types, No eye/face detail, so that should be fast and easy.
Theres no assambly,( apart from giveing them a quick wash beofore primeing)
and no Base details.

Found one set on ebay that had gone for 550 USD pro painted.
So first we agreed on around 250USD wich seems fair.

Toughts?

Some of my work for refferance.( right.. i need to start taking more pictures.. and take less work in progress pics..)
http://imgur.com/9hplyEv (wip, face test)
http://imgur.com/BOPwNQd ( Wip Uruk hai,bases not done, but this lvl is how il be doing the infantry.) Also my phone cam is slightly smashed..
http://imgur.com/z5k7CzV
http://imgur.com/rQdgGrp
http://imgur.com/c2UDTCh
http://imgur.com/A1i3fEn
http://imgur.com/QEig4zH
http://imgur.com/jNoQDVs

Thoughts:

Look at the other painting services and their pricing as a start.

I honestly think that the pricing YOU set is based on the time YOU spend.
Skilled with brush? Make use of airbrush?
It boils down to what your time is worth.

Do not forget prep time, packing and shipping.
I remember shipping out of country some miniatures and I put a box inside a box with Styrofoam in-between and actual bubble-wrap inside.
Customers can really appreciate a "bulletproof" packing method.

I honestly think only you can figure out what to charge for this and be "worth it" for you while keeping in mind the going rate.

Good Luck!

Charging $250, if you say you're going to take 4 times as long to paint the character and monster models (of which there's 10) that comes to...

250/(40+2*10) = $3 per regular infantry dude and $12.50 for each character and monster.

So I'd say that's pretty bloody cheap. How fast do you think you can paint them? That gives you how much you're charging yourself per hour to paint them.

Reckon you can prep, paint and pack 2 models in an hour? 2 models an hour is pretty fast for most people and would mean you're earning $6 an hour. From the pictures the models are pretty detailed, I'd say a good starting point for most people would be to say you probably aren't going to be painting them much faster than 1 an hour, so that's about $3 an hour.

That's not including any consumables you'll go through painting them.

Wont have to worry about shipping on this one ^^ same town, but yeah thats something to think about if i get some out of town/country work.
as for what my time is worth, idk ^^ only working part time now, so this will just mean less time to play games/work on my own stuff.
But iv been wanting to get into, or atleast try commish work so thats mostly why im doing it. and the guy dident bat an eye at spending that much, wich is why i wanted to ask people who have exsperiance with this sort of stuff.

Did try and look around and see what people are chargeing, but its alweys ' send info, x models x standard * etc etc.

Seeing the stuff you posted, I would never charge less then 10 euros/ model. But I think you should probably even go to 15 or 20 for that detail level (because i do think you will be spending that kind of time on them, nobody should be working for less then 10 euros an hour ) Give him 20% discount on the total because it is your first commission.

If he wants them cheaper, consider base coating (not picking out little details) and dipping. That goes ridiculously fast and can be done rather cheap. Leave your harder work for your own models or for someone willing to pay for it.

As above, you've got to determine what your time is worth to you. Plus expenses / consumables. Further, I'd set a base price to even be bothered with something in the first place. Keeps people from bringing you one unit at a time, sort of deal.

For example, you want to make $15 [CAD] an hour painting. I figure 2 cans of primer should definitely cover 50 minis. But how much paint? You'll probably need at least 10 pots, just to have enough colours. Wear and tear on your brushes... factor needing 2 brushes. Base rate of $50 to keep the riff-raff away.

How many hours? I can crank out a basic tac marine in about 7 minutes, to a very basic tabletop standard. Nothing fancy, at all, but all details painted and at least a wash / drybrush on everything to add shading. Of course, I prime my BA's with Red primer, which saves a bucket of time!

But let's say you're going to spend 20 mins average. Less for grunts, more for important minis. 50 / 3 per hour = 17 hrs, plus some prep time, haggling and shipping time... 20 hours.

So $300 labour, $100 in consumables [always make a 30% profit on consumables!] plus $50 for time spent on initial negotiations / whatever... Charging $450 for that service would likely be fair. In CAD. That would be about $320 US.

Never forget to make a profit on each element of your business.

just for reference I'm paying a friend to paint some of my stuff for $7/mini, $15 for character - which honestly is probably still a bit too cheap. Although I'm doing the bases so there is that.

 greatbigtree wrote:
How many hours? I can crank out a basic tac marine in about 7 minutes, to a very basic tabletop standard. Nothing fancy, at all, but all details painted and at least a wash / drybrush on everything to add shading. Of course, I prime my BA's with Red primer, which saves a bucket of time!

But let's say you're going to spend 20 mins average. Less for grunts, more for important minis. 50 / 3 per hour = 17 hrs, plus some prep time, haggling and shipping time... 20 hours.

Geeeeeeze, 7 minutes??? I couldn't even clean the mould lines off a marine and assemble it in only 7 minutes. The fastest models in my gallery take me 20 minutes to paint not including assembly or basing, which bumps it up to about 30-40 minutes for my speed painted models.

I suggest you time how long it actually takes you to paint a model.


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 Phoenixmaster wrote:
as for what my time is worth, idk ^^ only working part time now, so this will just mean less time to play games/work on my own stuff.

I suggest you seriously sit down and time how long it'll take you to take a model from sprue to finished product so you have a realistic idea of how long it's going to take you.

You might not care now, but if it takes you an hour to paint each basic dude and 4 hours to paint each hero/monster, you're talking 80 hours of work which is roughly the equivalent of working 2 weeks full time on the project. Maybe you can paint faster than that, maybe you can't, but you should have an idea before you jump in to any commission project that is larger than just a simple single squad or single character.


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 Phoenixmaster wrote:
Did try and look around and see what people are chargeing, but its alweys ' send info, x models x standard * etc etc.

That's because clients don't want to pay you by the hour they want to pay you by the model, which is fair enough, but they would know roughly how long it takes them and they would have priced their $ for X standard according to that and likewise you have to know how much you're paying yourself by the hour to avoid stepping in to a project that's going to drive you insane and make you no money.

It all depends on you really.

Normally commission painters put a monetary value on time and asses the cost that way.
Some value the enjoyment and the experience more.

As long as both parties are happy, it is win win

I've been charging models based on their respective retail value, infantry at retail x 1.5; termies at retail x1.75; vehicles/characters at retail x2; knights at retail x2.5.

I think 250 is a bit on the low end for your quality, but it is your first commission, so you'll figure it on as you go on.

Based on your pics the quote is a little on the low side.

That said taking on a large project should help you figure out your times for batching painting, painting a variety of details and sizes to different standards as progress towards hitting that sweet spot producing work you and the client are happy with for the time investment and money involved

Wow Thanks for all the reply's guys, alot of things i havent tought about ^^

Might be chargeing too little idk, but its my 1st time, and its for a buddy, so he might want to tip^^

.. man i still dont get how the quote function works..but.

AllSeeingSkink *I suggest you seriously sit down and time how long it'll take you to take a model from sprue to finished product so you have a realistic idea of how long it's going to take you.*
Never actually done that, as i tend to switch between minis, and building, +the odd online gameing when the right friends are online^^ but yeah this will be a good way to see how i can handle this sort of work.
I did get two Uruk hai warbands for LOTR as a xmas gift (buddy wanted me to start playing^^ ) and i had them finished in about two weeks time, just working on them late at night, and doing the base colours when work was slow^^ (bossman is fine with me painting at work )

Usually takes me a few evenings of painting to finish models, tho alot of that is mixing my own colors as i live the 'budget hammer' way of life^^
BUT on the bright side, i get a very good discount on my Citadel supplies as i work at a independant retailer ^^ and get a discount on GW stuff in trade for not getting paid that much

Infantry normals il do in batches ( god i hate batch painting^^) but as im a bit of a Norse buff ( even got my arm coverd in ragnarok ) im gonna be doing some warpaint/tattoos on my dime.
I do have an Airbrush , but i dont think it'l work to well on theese minis, so much detail on em.(and im still a nooblord with the damned thing)
And since this is all for a .. buddy is a strong word, i know him and we get along, but we dont rly see one another that much^^ but anyhow, he says he dosent rly need them finished untill summer. but im gonna try my best to have them finished in a month for starters. But i know he has other friends who might send some more work my way. And this project will be a grate way to advertise for my serivce, so its getting my A game.

As i have plans this weekend (Granny Turning 80! :O ), and im still nursing a horrible cold, im gonna start washing and primeing on monday! but since its cold out , im gonna have to do all the primeing after hours at work.(Big space with good ventilation^^)

Might just do a Progress thread, think i'l name it Project Ragnarok.

Thanks again for all the help guys, will be usefull to have all this info for later!


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Also, holy hell. 7 min on 1 marine? :O got any pics?^^
Just laying down the undercoat for my termis today, 3 termis.. think i spendt about 20 min. and that was just the Zendori dust base..
Then again.. Orange is a pain to paint..

http://imgur.com/L4U1nwm (WIP)

Based on the Firehawks.
HB chapter - Phoenix. My own fluff, The raptorus rex made it out of the warp and crashed down on a planet waaaaay outside the astronomicons reach.
Termis and some HQ still have the Firehawk colours, rest is getting a LOTDish theme

On my phone so cant give real advice, but for reference I personally would charge in the regions north of £1750.

Well most of what im painting wont be super detailed, will be abit over tabletop standard, But its nice to get a 'ish' on what my best work can fetch ( tho im still learning^^)

But while i have you here, Been toying with selling some Terrain on ebay, what you think i can get for something like this ?
http://imgur.com/Dcd4bsy
http://imgur.com/tXravaB
It also Works as a Dicetower^^ Fun and easy to make, think i could churn out a good number of that type of buildings^^

@ AllSeeingSkink:

I don't clean the mould lines. I'm talking painting time, I'd assumed the painter wasn't going to be assembling the models, just painting them.

BA Tactical. Prime the model with red paint. Prime the bolter separate, in black. Wash the tac in Reikland Flesh. Drybrush the bolter with grey. Pick out the white details with a fine brush, then wash with grey. Pick out gold details with a fine brush, wash with Reikland. Pick out Boltgun details [like the non-armour on the bolter, metal bitz on the backpack, wash with Nuln Oil. Pick out the eyes with Jade Green. Paint the base with Bestial Brown, allow to dry.

...

Glue modeling sand to top of base, allow to dry.

...

Wash base with Agrax Earthshade, allow to dry.

...

Spray sealer on model. Allow to dry.

...

Dab glue to base, splotchy, and sprinkle with scorched earth static grass. Done.


Not counting the priming, which I suppose I should, and obviously not counting drying time, I can crank out a 10-man tactical squad in about 1.5 hours of "painting" time. For example, in the pre-grav days I could paint a Power Sword Veteran Sarge, Plasma Gunner, and a Plasma Cannon, plus 7 bolters, in 90 minutes, with a slight bit more love and affection given to the upgrade models. That's 2.17 points per minute being cranked out. I'm not bragging, by any means, but this is what it looks like under terrible lighting...





I swear the shading is more noticeable in person.

The shading's a little bit better on these guys...



But the lighting doesn't do the red shading any justice. Plus, I like glossy sealer, it's just something I like. The point is, depending on what your customer is looking for, you might be able to crank the minis out faster than you think. It would be a good idea to discuss that with your customer. And the assault marines probably take about 15 mins or so, each, having significantly more detail. Death Company, with all their fiddly friggin' bits? Probably a half-hour each. These were DC before becoming Legion of the Damned...



And again, kind of sad because the lighting pretty much eliminates the light drybrushed grey highlights on these models, but if you look close, you can see it.

Point is, if you want to make money at it, you'll need to be FAST and EFFICIENT so hopefully your painting style lends to that. If you want it to be a business, and not a hobby.

@greatbigtree: Nice looking work!
I usually hit the models with the gloss/hardcoat but then a final layer of matt clear coat. Too much gloss creates a glare that makes it hard to see the paintjob. Good thing is that armor can be shiny so works, I would not like gloss of say any hair / fur.
Yeah, parting lines are pain. I hate to say I immediately saw those on your models and I would curse at myself if I let those through on my models (which happens). It does not detract from one important thing: the models are painted to descent standard and are a joy to see when gaming.
Good work.

And here i spendt about 4-5 hours last night painting the 1st batch of 4 ^^
But yeah with the right colour primer Marines turn out fast^^ i dont like the black colours tho, so i mix my own for my marines
the gloss is from a sealer right? havent rly used that on my minis,exsept for a very short period when i 1st started, my WHFB orks looks like they just came out of the shower..


but then again i was not sure what colours id be useing, and was doing research on runes/warpaint/colours on the side^^
gonna whip up a WIP thread as iv been taking pics along the way. tho my cam's a bit cruddy..

http://imgur.com/zHh7yIq
http://imgur.com/SsCkYO0


still need to do bronze colours and highlights, some cleanup. and ressist my urge to do all the details, because man..actually some nicely detailed minis, despite the cheap bendable plastic
oh and warpaint+scarring on the left eye, cus Odin^^

@ Talizvar: You're far too generous with your compliments, but I'll make sure to put you on the good list for your effort. I am not worried about the mould lines. To each their own, like you said. For me they're gaming pieces that I want to look "not embarrassing" on the table. Which this hits for me. I genuinely dislike painting.

But that's the point I'm trying to make. If the customer is looking for that [not embarrassing] and you're providing better than that, you're not going to be as efficient as you can be, so you won't be making the money you could be. Spending extra time on Commission A prevents you from working on Commission B, which puts Commission C outside of their acceptable time frame for completion, so you lose that business.

@ Phoenix:

Looking good for WIP. Looks like you're drybrushing the fur? You can get a similar effect from washing, and would likely cut down your production time. Love the blue on the shield. How'd you do it?

BigTree

Yeah, went with a black, then white primer so i could use thinned down paints to get natural highlights, so a quick wash of that-waterd down shade- drybrush.
Same with the shield. but think im gonna make some white zones on it, to make it more viking'y (as i sat down to paint last night i started watching the series 'Vikings' wich has been on my 2watch list for a while xD)

But trying to hold back my urge to do details, As building/painting is my fav part of the hobby^^ main reason i play is to see them all on the board (with the terrain i made and painted )
But playing is some ppls fav part and thats ok, thats the gr8 thing about Warhammer ^^ buddy of mine bearly primes his Ig. and some of the troops got big bits of spure on em. just to get under my skinn

And yeah im going a bit above the pay on this one, mostly cus its my 1st one, and will be nice to have pics of them all for refferance to future projects + i rly rly like vikings^^

Sounds good... I think I'd choke on bits of sprue, personally, but everyone's got their line, right?

The only thing I'd say is be careful about what you advertise. If you advertise your Vikings as "Level Q" or whatever you choose for a painting system, then you don't want to give the impression that you painted the Vikings as "table top" and then for your next commission have someone expect that level of quality for the cost.

I'd never thought about priming black, with a white "top down dusting" to create the natural highlights... kind of like inverse drybrushing. I'll have to try that! Learn something new every day. I have a hard time getting blue to "look right" with just a base and wash, and I love that blue.

Thanks for the tip!

Top down white dident come out so good on theese, as i used actual primer, usually do it with my airbrush, buuuut i lost my nozzle down the kitchen drain xD waiting on new one to arrive^^

also the shields are just the primers, thin blue, think its one of the old foundation colours, and then just Drakanof nightshade .

And after a slow day at work iv gotten 4 base colours down on the next batch