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Would you mind expanding on this? I generally consider religion and philosophy to be opposites. We use philosophy to question ourselves, our perceptions, and our beliefs. But religion's stance (if simplified) is that all the answers needed come from an immutable source that can't be questioned.
Pretty sure they used to persecute philosophers too
And yet we have a slew of Catholic philosophers to include Thomas Aquinas, Thomas More, Blaise Pascal and many others. Other Christian philosophers include John Locke and Edmund Burke
Tell that to the catholic inquisition.
Does that snarky comment somehow negate the fact that there are many Christian philosophers including many who were not persecuted by any church?
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
There can be no complex answers to difficult questions; there can only be simple, binary thoughts. This is why religion and science teach us that there is only one way to approach any situation and that we must dig our heels in when questioned.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Ahtman wrote: There can be no complex answers to difficult questions; there can only be simple, binary thoughts. This is why religion and science teach us that there is only one way to approach any situation and that we must dig our heels in when questioned.
The ghosts of ten thousand Jesuits would like to have a word with you and challenge you to a game of Rock Em Sock Em Robots.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Would you mind expanding on this? I generally consider religion and philosophy to be opposites. We use philosophy to question ourselves, our perceptions, and our beliefs. But religion's stance (if simplified) is that all the answers needed come from an immutable source that can't be questioned.
Pretty sure they used to persecute philosophers too
And yet we have a slew of Catholic philosophers to include Thomas Aquinas, Thomas More, Blaise Pascal and many others. Other Christian philosophers include John Locke and Edmund Burke
Tell that to the catholic inquisition.
Does that snarky comment somehow negate the fact that there are many Christian philosophers including many who were not persecuted by any church?
Ahh, so as long as they weren't christian philosophers it was ok then? Murder is murder, and this was the church silencing anything they didn't agree with or challenged their views.
As it became increasingly unacceptable for the Church to burn scientists and philosophers, the Catholic Church contented itself with forbidding and burning the written works of philosophers like John Locke.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/08 14:51:00
Well lets not be dense. The Catholic Church didn't burn Jogn Locke's stuff cause he was a philosopher, they burned his stuff cause he was a Calvinist (see Heretic).
As to this;
Would you mind expanding on this? I generally consider religion and philosophy to be opposites. We use philosophy to question ourselves, our perceptions, and our beliefs. But religion's stance (if simplified) is that all the answers needed come from an immutable source that can't be questioned.
This would be a rather unnuanced view of religion. Way back in ye olden times, before science had emerged as a distinct field, philosophy (or natural philosophy) was seen as the exploration of God's creation by western Europeans. The first universities actually saw all fields of academics as tools to better understand the divine. The conflict between religion and science/philosophy today is a fairly modern thing.
Further, most religions are not fully based on a specific "source that cannot be questions." Even the ones that might seem to be (namely the Abrahamic faiths) have remarkable flexibility because the texts themselves are vague more often than not and open to interpretation. Nothing really prevents religion from being used introspectively.
Further there was no "Catholic Inquisition." The Catholic Church had no such overarching arm and we've largely blurred the realities of what the "Inquisition" was. These things were much more regionally based and locally focused, and on occasion in opposition to the Church proper. Aspects have been horribly exaggerated in the popular memory by Reformation propaganda. Properly, an Inquisition was a court procedure that the Church inherited from the Roman legal system and not an actual organization. Inquisitions were generally carried out by the Franciscans and Dominicans when sanctioned, and by basically anyone else who found such things possibly convenient. Later an actual administrative arm was formed to unify the divergent regional processes and was basically just a Catholic court of law and dealt with everything ranging from criminal procedures, to heresy, to witchcraft, to settling civil disputes (and this was properly called the Roman Inquisition, and never fully managed to reign in the Spanish or Holy Roman Empire).
I enjoy all these off topic debates, so thought I would start one that has a lot of potential for diverse conversation. Feel free to post anything here that may answer questions like:
'Is Religion relevant in the 21st Century?'
'What does Religion mean to you?'
'Do Religions need to reform?'
'What counts as Religion?'
'What's Scientology and all those other obscure Religions past and present?'
I saw this thread pop up and figured it'd be locked pretty quickly, I'm actually quite surprised that it's remained so civil.
I was baptised a protestant when I was born, because well that's what people did in northern Germany in the 1980s. Raised secular, considered myself atheist for a long time but now identify as Buddhist although definitely still a newbie.
Is religion relevant? Sure, historically religion has been a fantastic way of bringing people together. Obviously there's plenty of people who will post a real zinger of an argument like `muh Crusades` or `muh inquisition` but for the most part throughout history religion has bought people together far more than it's set them apart.
What does it mean to me? Personally, it's just a philosophy which I like to live by. It doesn't affect others, I don't advertise it - except obviously in an actual discussion about religion.
Do religions need to reform? Certain religions could use a little self-reflection yes.
What counts as religion? That's a really good question. Buddhism is more a philosophy, there is no god to worship, there is no sin, yet it counts as a religion. So, amount of time present? number of adherents? Like I said good question I really can't say for sure.
What are obscure religions? I'd say they're religions that are obscure. Not really sure what this question is really about.
You are welcome to have one.
You are welcome to be very attached to it.
-But don't wave it around in public and don't push it down the throat of small children.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
General Annoyance wrote: I don't like the idea of nothing after death. But then again, I'm young, and thus not likely to accept the inevitability of death anytime soon.
Compare it to your feelings in regards to what happened before you were born. Does the idea of nothing before birth affect you in the same way?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/12 06:34:57
-------------------------------------------------------
"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."
My general opinion on religion is that I love to hear about other people's faith, what they believe and why. It's always fascinating, and more often than not shows a great deal of thought and originality. But I got bored and annoyed very quickly when people start to talk about why other people's beliefs are wrong. Then it's almost always simplistic, mean spirited and rarely very accurate at all.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
I have always been fascinated by the utility of faith and religion. Every culture has them and even today they are still common so there must be something useful about them.
I've been reading an interest book called "Homo Deus". In this book the author argues that a religion is any institution or concept that seeks to dictate specific morals and behavior which people will adhere to. With this definition you could call communism or capitalism a religion. Anyone who seeks to say "That's just the way things are". How many times has the western world acted in the name of liberty? H also argues that humans were able to dominate the planet because we can cooperate in much larger and more dynamic groups than other animals. One way we achieve this is with shared stories. Think of the phrase "for queen and country" where total strangers work together because of specific ideas, whether it's a god, a monarch or an idea.
So perhaps the god's of religion have merely been replaced with concepts and ideas instead of beings and we're as religious as we have ever been.
It's a stretch, I know, but I find it interesting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/15 18:59:48
Ask yourself: have you rated a gallery image today?
Mr Nobody wrote: I have always been fascinated by the utility of faith and religion. Every culture has them and even today they are still common so there must be something useful about them.
I've been reading an interest book called "Homo Deus". In this book the author argues that a religion is any institution or concept that seeks to dictate specific morals and behavior which people will adhere to. With this definition you could call communism or capitalism a religion. Anyone who seeks to say "That's just the way things are". How many times has the western world acted in the name of liberty? H also argues that humans were able to dominate the planet because we can cooperate in much larger and more dynamic groups than other animals. One way we achieve this is with shared stories. Think of the phrase "for queen and country" where total strangers work together because of specific ideas, whether it's a god, a monarch or an idea.
So perhaps the god's of religion have merely been replaced with concepts and ideas instead of beings and we're as religious as we have ever been.
It's a stretch, I know, but I find it interesting.
It's not that much of a stretch
In classical conception "Civilization" was defined by; a system of writing, codified laws, monumental architecture, a division of labor, politics, trade, and religion
A more modern updated variation of this list is; language, codified laws, technology, division of labor, government, economics, and ideology. The later was changed because social scientists observed that while a distinction can be drawn between the metaphysics of religion and the physics of capitalism, the two worked in much the same way as a unifying and motivational force for society. Within those bounds, capitalism and Christianity can be treated as interchangeable/complimentary forces in providing social stability.
Mr Nobody wrote: Anyone who seeks to say "That's just the way things are". How many times has the western world acted in the name of liberty? … So perhaps the god's of religion have merely been replaced with concepts and ideas instead of beings and we're as religious as we have ever been.
It's a stretch, I know, but I find it interesting.
Lawrence Kohlberg's stages of moral development might be an interesting read. In short: It's about how and why we follow rules/laws and how one's perception of what's right/wrong and legal/moral can evolve.
Religion, to me, is a codified set of rules based on doctrine that is able to establish itself as something humanity is willing to call a religion and not something else.
I'm a former LaVeyan Satanist. My religion was basically based directly on Jesus' teachings in the Bible, and updated for the modern era when we had more science and understanding. The morals are the same as Jesus taught, but LaVeyan Satanism teaches them in a way that does not really tolerate superstition or bullgak. There aren't any lies offered. There aren't any tall tales used to teach by metaphor. There aren't any stories that could be confused for mythology.
Effectively, it's three major components.
1. Satan gets a hard rap but shouldn't.
2. This is WHY you benefit from these moral values Jesus taught.
3. Christianity is evil bullgak that twists Jesus' words to justify their own evils.
And to be honest, I stopped calling myself a LaVeyan Satanist not because my beliefs changed, but because I didn't see a purpose in adhering to the label. I still call myself a former LaVeyan Satanist when describing my religion, because it is the only religion I have ever seen merit in, and former is different from ex when it comes to connotation.
It's interesting to have a religion that denies the validity of altruism, then immediately goes on to explain why helping others and following the law and being a good person directly benefits YOU.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/16 06:33:52
Steelmage99 wrote:In my opinion, religion are like a penis.
You are welcome to have one.
You are welcome to be very attached to it.
-But don't wave it around in public and don't push it down the throat of small children.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
General Annoyance wrote: I don't like the idea of nothing after death. But then again, I'm young, and thus not likely to accept the inevitability of death anytime soon.
Compare it to your feelings in regards to what happened before you were born. Does the idea of nothing before birth affect you in the same way?
Pouncey wrote:Religion, to me, is a codified set of rules based on doctrine that is able to establish itself as something humanity is willing to call a religion and not something else.
I'm a former LaVeyan Satanist. My religion was basically based directly on Jesus' teachings in the Bible, and updated for the modern era when we had more science and understanding. The morals are the same as Jesus taught, but LaVeyan Satanism teaches them in a way that does not really tolerate superstition or bullgak. There aren't any lies offered. There aren't any tall tales used to teach by metaphor. There aren't any stories that could be confused for mythology.
Effectively, it's three major components.
1. Satan gets a hard rap but shouldn't.
2. This is WHY you benefit from these moral values Jesus taught.
3. Christianity is evil bullgak that twists Jesus' words to justify their own evils.
And to be honest, I stopped calling myself a LaVeyan Satanist not because my beliefs changed, but because I didn't see a purpose in adhering to the label. I still call myself a former LaVeyan Satanist when describing my religion, because it is the only religion I have ever seen merit in, and former is different from ex when it comes to connotation.
It's interesting to have a religion that denies the validity of altruism, then immediately goes on to explain why helping others and following the law and being a good person directly benefits YOU.
Steele, that made my damn night. I will go to bed happy now.
I served with a Satanist. He really schooled me on what it meant, and the reason he called it Satanism had more to do with a jab at the church and less to do with Satan.
As for me, I'm an Athiest. I keep it to myself, because believe it or not, in the south thats the new person to discriminate against, not as bad as they discriminate against Homosexuals, but last person I told turned theri back on me and walked away as I was speaking.
religion has a place but not in modern society of rules and science
What does it mean to me? Look up Bacha Bazzi and that will answer the question. Its almost always a way to force your views on the mass and make them ok. Its for those who no longer want to find the answers but have them handed to them,
watch Bill Nye debates Kenn Hamm, and you can see a perfect example of someone who cant create a thought for themself without having to reference a horribly written book of stories.
This is all my opinion, and nothing more.
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redleger wrote: religion has a place but not in modern society of rules and science
Rules and science have always existed, just like religion. They all fill intrinsical needs of the human species. Why wouldn't there be a place for religion. It is quite a scary statement, actually. In a society where there is no place for religion, what is going to happen to all the religious people?
redleger wrote: What does it mean to me? Look up Bacha Bazzi and that will answer the question.
What does that have to do with religion?
redleger wrote: Its almost always a way to force your views on the mass and make them ok.
No, it is not. Religion can and will be abused in such ways, but that does not make it any different from many other things that can and will be abused in the same way.
redleger wrote: Its for those who no longer want to find the answers but have them handed to them
That is just not true. Searching for answers is a huge part of any religion. In fact, it is the reason religion exists in the first place.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/28 20:35:44
Iron_Captain wrote: It is quite a scary statement, actually. In a society where there is no place for religion, what is going to happen to all the religious people?
Horoscopes? Homeopathy? Conspiracy theory seems like a good answer.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
redleger wrote: religion has a place but not in modern society of rules and science
Rules and science have always existed, just like religion. They all fill intrinsical needs of the human species. Why wouldn't there be a place for religion.
It is quite a scary statement, actually. In a society where there is no place for religion, what is going to happen to all the religious people?
I am curious of what you believe will happen?
Religion has no place in this modern society as it pertains to politics, lawmaking, and education.
I also am from the south and keep the fact that I am a non-theist to myself and close friends due to persecution. It could even cost me a job in my right to work states. It has cost me friends and gained me the ire family members.
redleger wrote: religion has a place but not in modern society of rules and science
Rules and science have always existed, just like religion. They all fill intrinsical needs of the human species. Why wouldn't there be a place for religion. It is quite a scary statement, actually. In a society where there is no place for religion, what is going to happen to all the religious people?
redleger wrote: What does it mean to me? Look up Bacha Bazzi and that will answer the question.
What does that have to do with religion?
redleger wrote: Its almost always a way to force your views on the mass and make them ok.
No, it is not. Religion can and will be abused in such ways, but that does not make it any different from many other things that can and will be abused in the same way.
redleger wrote: Its for those who no longer want to find the answers but have them handed to them
That is just not true. Searching for answers is a huge part of any religion. In fact, it is the reason religion exists in the first place.
1. Lets look at how religion is impacting society today. Our new secretary of education and VP would love to see relgion make their way back into the school system. Once you start teaching creationism you begin skewing facts to fit a book full of stories instead of books based on scientific fact. This leads to science being seen as opposing of the great religions truth. That leads to book burnings, jailing and if we repeat the past, burning at the stake of "heretics" I am not saying that it would happen tomorrow, but its not a far off thought. Instead we should be satisfying that "truth" seaking with a desire to find facts in a real and positive way. Faith does not lead to the discovery of the next vaccine that cures a disease.
Religion separates more people than it brings together. I am not saying outlaw religion, I'm simply saying when religion is less important than advancement of the species, you may see many of the problems we currently face disappear. Nothing will happen to religious people, there simply wont be any.
2. Bacha Bazzi is based on the religious notion that women are for only one purpose. The abuse of these boys is tolerated at a religious level, this is not just organic to rural Afghanistan. It is a direct result of teachings making women worthless for anything other than making more babies.
3. Im not sure the last time there was a stabbing or bombing because we know the world is round, but just felt the need to destroy the flat earth society. Yes that is a thing. I have often had very hateful ideas towards Ken Hamm, but never had I thought it would be a good idea to launch an assault on his tax payer funded Ark of lies. Christian teachings have been growing more hate in this country that Islam has. Hate towards the scientific community and towards anything that disproves what they believe to be true.
4. Searching for answers in the religious community is not difficult. Open the (insert man made holy text here) find a passage that supports your claim, feel better about yourself. Or you go to a religious leader, ask the question, get quoted something from same said book and feel better about yourself. Instead why not conduct experiment, develop a theory and then see if its true? Why does the sun rise? Is it the Egyptian god pulling it across the sky on his chariot? wait no, its because of the rotation of the earth.
When we can believe our own actions are destroying the Earth instead of thinking global warming is a lie, when we all work towards better medicines instead of praying over a kid as it dies or neglecting to take them to get mental health instead of thinking there is a demon inside of them, then maybe just maybe we can move on to the next evolutionary step for mankind. Instead we are actually going backwards because we are not producing the scientists we should be.
Inshullah is the religious concept that whatever happens does not matter because it is god's will. I would prefer to think we can make a difference and that our destiny is not set in stone by the Abrahamic god.
Edit for spelling.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/01 23:30:12
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Iron_Captain wrote: It is quite a scary statement, actually. In a society where there is no place for religion, what is going to happen to all the religious people?
They all look back and say "wow, that was a silly thing we believed". It's possible for religion to end without violent persecution and forcing religious people to give up their religions.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Jehan-reznor wrote: Religion will not go away it will take other forms, and there will always be people who need a god figure to be their moral compass.
The people who think that a god is the only thing keeping them from killing and raping are frightening.
Jehan-reznor wrote: Religion will not go away it will take other forms, and there will always be people who need a god figure to be their moral compass.
The people who think that a god is the only thing keeping them from killing and raping are frightening.
THIS 100%. If your personal moral compass is so broken that threat of burning in hell is all that is keeping that person in line, at some point the lack of moral compass will win over the religious view. Especially when you are in a religion that says see a priest, say some prayer and you are GTG. I am not saying murder would be forgiven by said deity according to church doctrine, but the psychological impact of that belief will allow many people to do some heinous things.
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redleger wrote: religion has a place but not in modern society of rules and science
Rules and science have always existed, just like religion. They all fill intrinsical needs of the human species. Why wouldn't there be a place for religion.
It is quite a scary statement, actually. In a society where there is no place for religion, what is going to happen to all the religious people?
I am curious of what you believe will happen?
Religion has no place in this modern society as it pertains to politics, lawmaking, and education.
I also am from the south and keep the fact that I am a non-theist to myself and close friends due to persecution. It could even cost me a job in my right to work states. It has cost me friends and gained me the ire family members.
Politics and lawmaking? No. Mixing politics and religion is a really really bad idea. That is why virtually all western nations, including the US, have seperation of church and state. But religion definitely has a place in education. Religion is an important part of human society, and therefore children need to be educated on it same as on other elements of society. Doing otherwise would not properly prepare children for taking their place in society.
As to what I believe will happen in a society that declares that religion has no place within it anymore? Well, I am from Russia. You only need to look at Russian history (or that of any other nation that tried to put an end to religion, like China) to know what will happen. Hint: it includes massive bloodshed and the destruction of centuries worth of cultural heritage.
Crispy78 wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote: Searching for answers is a huge part of any religion. In fact, it is the reason religion exists in the first place.
Well, yeah, if you go back several thousand years, when people were looking for explanations for things like 'why does the sun come up every day'...
Ever since then though, science has been continuously explaining the things that were originally attributed to a god.
That is not why religion exists. Religion has been used to offer explanations to such questions, but even thousands of years ago people were already coming up with non-religious explanations for those things as well.
The questions that religion generally provides answer to are more existential in nature. Questions like: "Why am I here?", "What is the meaning of life?" or "What happens to me after I die?"
It will be never possible to answer those questions using the scientific method.
It is also impossible to prove. Because it can not be proven scientifically it's ok to not know. Does not mean I have to buy into a religion to hand me an answer.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/02 20:22:26
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Iron_Captain wrote: But religion definitely has a place in education. Religion is an important part of human society, and therefore children need to be educated on it same as on other elements of society. Doing otherwise would not properly prepare children for taking their place in society.
That's a self-perpetuating existence that offers no reason as to why children should learn about religion in schools.
As to what I believe will happen in a society that declares that religion has no place within it anymore? Well, I am from Russia. You only need to look at Russian history (or that of any other nation that tried to put an end to religion, like China) to know what will happen. Hint: it includes massive bloodshed and the destruction of centuries worth of cultural heritage.
You might have a point, if we didn't have thousands of years of massive bloodshed and the destruction of millennium's worth of cultural heritage in the name of religion.
The questions that religion generally provides answer to are more existential in nature. Questions like: "Why am I here?", "What is the meaning of life?" or "What happens to me after I die?"
It will be never possible to answer those questions using the scientific method.
All of those questions can be considered via philosophy and don't need to include religion.
The questions that religion generally provides answer to are more existential in nature. Questions like: "Why am I here?", "What is the meaning of life?" or "What happens to me after I die?"
You mean, those are the questions that religion pretends to provide answers to.
-------------------------------------------------------
"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."
redleger wrote: religion has a place but not in modern society of rules and science
Rules and science have always existed, just like religion. They all fill intrinsical needs of the human species. Why wouldn't there be a place for religion.
It is quite a scary statement, actually. In a society where there is no place for religion, what is going to happen to all the religious people?
redleger wrote: What does it mean to me? Look up Bacha Bazzi and that will answer the question.
What does that have to do with religion?
redleger wrote: Its almost always a way to force your views on the mass and make them ok.
No, it is not. Religion can and will be abused in such ways, but that does not make it any different from many other things that can and will be abused in the same way.
redleger wrote: Its for those who no longer want to find the answers but have them handed to them
That is just not true. Searching for answers is a huge part of any religion. In fact, it is the reason religion exists in the first place.
1. Lets look at how religion is impacting society today. Our new secretary of education and VP would love to see relgion make their way back into the school system. Once you start teaching creationism you begin skewing facts to fit a book full of stories instead of books based on scientific fact. This leads to science being seen as opposing of the great religions truth. That leads to book burnings, jailing and if we repeat the past, burning at the stake of "heretics" I am not saying that it would happen tomorrow, but its not a far off thought. Instead we should be satisfying that "truth" seaking with a desire to find facts in a real and positive way. Faith does not lead to the discovery of the next vaccine that cures a disease.
Religion separates more people than it brings together. I am not saying outlaw religion, I'm simply saying when religion is less important than advancement of the species, you may see many of the problems we currently face disappear. Nothing will happen to religious people, there simply wont be any.
2. Bacha Bazzi is based on the religious notion that women are for only one purpose. The abuse of these boys is tolerated at a religious level, this is not just organic to rural Afghanistan. It is a direct result of teachings making women worthless for anything other than making more babies.
3. Im not sure the last time there was a stabbing or bombing because we know the world is round, but just felt the need to destroy the flat earth society. Yes that is a thing. I have often had very hateful ideas towards Ken Hamm, but never had I thought it would be a good idea to launch an assault on his tax payer funded Ark of lies. Christian teachings have been growing more hate in this country that Islam has. Hate towards the scientific community and towards anything that disproves what they believe to be true.
4. Searching for answers in the religious community is not difficult. Open the (insert man made holy text here) find a passage that supports your claim, feel better about yourself. Or you go to a religious leader, ask the question, get quoted something from same said book and feel better about yourself. Instead why not conduct experiment, develop a theory and then see if its true? Why does the sun rise? Is it the Egyptian god pulling it across the sky on his chariot? wait no, its because of the rotation of the earth.
When we can believe our own actions are destroying the Earth instead of thinking global warming is a lie, when we all work towards better medicines instead of praying over a kid as it dies or neglecting to take them to get mental health instead of thinking there is a demon inside of them, then maybe just maybe we can move on to the next evolutionary step for mankind. Instead we are actually going backwards because we are not producing the scientists we should be.
Inshullah is the religious concept that whatever happens does not matter because it is god's will. I would prefer to think we can make a difference and that our destiny is not set in stone by the Abrahamic god.
Edit for spelling.
1. Creationism is not the same thing as religion though. Creationism is a fundamentalistic christian ideology mostly limited to the United States. Equating that with all religion or even just christianity is like equating ISIS with all islam.
Religious extremism, like any kind of extremism, is very dangerous. That does not mean that all religion is bad and shouldn't have a place in society. Politics is also something that often gives rise to extremism. Do you also hope that politics dissapear? Be realistic. Religion and politics are two things that shall never go away. They are intrinsical to our species.
Also, what do you mean by 'advancement of the species'? Isn't that something advocated by literally every single religious or political ideology?
2. If bacha bazi is rooted in religion, then why did the devoutly religious Taliban attempt to root it out? Then why is it not found in other nations sharing the same religion? Bacha bazi is something rooted in Afghan culture, not in religion, altough religion may be used to justify it. Similarly, bad treatment of women is also not something inherent to islam, as evidenced by islamic cultures that do not treat women badly. Bad treatment of women is an issue with Middle-Eastern cultures, not necessarily with religion, which can and will always shift to accomodate differences or changes in culture.
3. Religious extremism can generate hate, violence and all kinds of nasty things. But how does that make it different from any kind of extremism? As for violent anti-religious extremism, maybe that has not happened in the US yet, but you only need to look a little beyond the borders of your own country to learn how nasty it can be. Again, there are many things that can generate extremism and hate and be used to justify violence. Religion is only one of those things. Why then single out religion as something that has no place in society? The issue here is not with religion, it is with the human species that is inherently violent and hateful. If religion were to somehow disappear, nothing would change. There would be just as much hate and violence as ever, people will just find other justifications. If there is anything people are good at it is coming up with justifications for behaviour they know is wrong.
4. If only it were so easy in reality. Unfortenately, religion and their assorted holy books and mythologies tend to be extremely cryptic, which makes getting answers (not to mention getting people to agree on those answers) extremely difficult.
If only every question could be answered with the scientific method religion would never even have existed. But alas, the knowledge of man is far too limited to ever be able to sate its curiousity. That is why we turn to the supernatural.
redleger wrote: "When we can believe our own actions are destroying the Earth instead of thinking global warming is a lie, when we all work towards better medicines instead of praying over a kid as it dies or neglecting to take them to get mental health instead of thinking there is a demon inside of them, then maybe just maybe we can move on to the next evolutionary step for mankind."
Now you sound just like the Bible. If only the wolf would lie down with the lamb...
Last but not least, if you want to believe you can determine your own destiny, you'd better turn away from science. Most scientists seem to come to the conclusion that the world is deterministic in nature. Not that it really matters. Whether our destiny is pre-determined or not, it will remain equally unpredictable to us. We can't predict it, so we can't change it. All we can do is hope for a bit of luck.
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redleger wrote:It is also impossible to prove. Because it can not be proven scientifically it's ok to not know. Does not mean I have to buy into a religion to hand me an answer.
Maybe you feel no need to know. Many others do.
infinite_array wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote: But religion definitely has a place in education. Religion is an important part of human society, and therefore children need to be educated on it same as on other elements of society. Doing otherwise would not properly prepare children for taking their place in society.
That's a self-perpetuating existence that offers no reason as to why children should learn about religion in schools.
It is not self-perpetuating since religion does not need education to form. Religion will be there regardless of whether you give lessons about in school.
infinite_array wrote:
As to what I believe will happen in a society that declares that religion has no place within it anymore? Well, I am from Russia. You only need to look at Russian history (or that of any other nation that tried to put an end to religion, like China) to know what will happen. Hint: it includes massive bloodshed and the destruction of centuries worth of cultural heritage.
You might have a point, if we didn't have thousands of years of massive bloodshed and the destruction of millennium's worth of cultural heritage in the name of religion.
Blood has been spilled in the name of anything.
infinite_array wrote:
The questions that religion generally provides answer to are more existential in nature. Questions like: "Why am I here?", "What is the meaning of life?" or "What happens to me after I die?"
It will be never possible to answer those questions using the scientific method.
All of those questions can be considered via philosophy and don't need to include religion.
I've yet to meet a philosopher who can provide an answer to that. Philosophy raises questions. It does not provide satisfying answers.
The questions that religion generally provides answer to are more existential in nature. Questions like: "Why am I here?", "What is the meaning of life?" or "What happens to me after I die?"
You mean, those are the questions that religion pretends to provide answers to.
Iron_Captain wrote: It is quite a scary statement, actually. In a society where there is no place for religion, what is going to happen to all the religious people?
They all look back and say "wow, that was a silly thing we believed". It's possible for religion to end without violent persecution and forcing religious people to give up their religions.
Oh come on mate, get back down to earth. That is no more possible than it is to peacefully convert the entire world to a single religion.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/03/02 21:19:59
The questions that religion generally provides answer to are more existential in nature. Questions like: "Why am I here?", "What is the meaning of life?" or "What happens to me after I die?"
You mean, those are the questions that religion pretends to provide answers to.
Got anything better?
Completely irrelevant. Answers stand on their own merits.
There is not default position that "automatically wins" if no other answer is provided. Thinking like that is classically religious thinking.
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"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."
Last but not least, if you want to believe you can determine your own destiny, you'd better turn away from science. Most scientists seem to come to the conclusion that the world is deterministic in nature.
Without wanting to get into the larger debate, while some things can be predicted with high degrees if certainty, reality is not deterministic, at least given current understandings. Reality is, at the most fundamental levels, a function of probability with inherent uncertainty. The entire field of quantum physics revolves around this fact.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Last but not least, if you want to believe you can determine your own destiny, you'd better turn away from science. Most scientists seem to come to the conclusion that the world is deterministic in nature.
Without wanting to get into the larger debate, while some things can be predicted with high degrees if certainty, reality is not deterministic, at least given current understandings. Reality is, at the most fundamental levels, a function of probability with inherent uncertainty. The entire field of quantum physics revolves around this fact.
Also without getting into the larger debate, I second what Vaktathi just said.
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"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."
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