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Unrelated to my last topic, I am fed up with Citadel paint pots. I've read the rants over and over, but when I don't get to paint for a week and well-closed pots of paint dry out, it costs money, and I don't want to bother transferring them to dropper bottles, no matter how much I love the colors. So, I'm switching brands. Thing is, I don't know which one I want. P3 and Vallejo are sold locally (within an hour's drive, at least), but I could order Reaper easily. I prefer matte paints, and I've noticed what Vallejo I've toyed with is fairly glossy. Obviously this can be fixed with a final matte sealer, but I find painting easier when everything is matte...suggestions? Comparison pictures would be fantastic, if anyone has them...

They're all good with different strengths and which one is best for you just comes down to how you like to paint and what techniques you use. Pictures are mostly going to be useless as you can achieve most effects with most paints if you know what you're doing.

But if you specifically like matte paints, Vallejo Model Color range (rather than the Game Color range) do tend to be more on the matte side. Reaper are probably the most matte out of the bottle of the paints I've used.

Reaper seems to be the go-to for matte, from everything I've read. I see what you mean about pictures being useless, though. I didn't think about sealers, mediums, technique, painting style, etc. Oh well. Vallejo is more easily accessible, but I feel like I would like Reaper more, so online ordering seems to be the way I'm going to have to go!

I can't go back to just pots with lids...

I have reaper, and like them. I have Vallejo as well, along with GW, reaper seems to be my go to, since I like matte colors as well being that I have Raven Guard and prefer them being matte over gloss.

I don't think you'll have any issues with reaper and the dropper bottles are fantastic compared to GW, still not sure why they have them anymore, they are so outdated.

I only buy gw paints and non of mine ever dried up. Hell I just opened a start painting box I bought in 2003 ish and they are perfect. How do you guys keep your paints? Mine are usually in the basement or the attic.

OgreChubbs wrote:
I only buy gw paints and non of mine ever dried up. Hell I just opened a start painting box I bought in 2003 ish and they are perfect. How do you guys keep your paints? Mine are usually in the basement or the attic.

It's not the new paints that are the issue...it's after they've been opened. Even without dried paint in the rims or anything, they never seem to last longer than a few months, whereas I bought and used some Vallejo years ago, and they are still perfectly fine, albeit separated a little from lack of use. Mine are always at room temperature and I don't leave them in the car or anything other than time to go to and from my work (which is 30 minutes at max, and most of that after the car has warmed up to average room temperatures).

Those I have transferred to droppers continue to work perfectly when the same colors kept drying up in their GW pots, and it's like a dollar per dropper bottle.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Those I have transferred to droppers continue to work perfectly when the same colors kept drying up in their GW pots, and it's like a dollar per dropper bottle.

I may have missed them somewhere, but know any reliable places to purchase these dollar droppers? In person, not online, if it can be avoided. I've checked the usual: Hobby Lobby, Michael's, even Walmart, but to no avail. Of course, I can be distracted and simply miss them, but I would've thought I'd have seen then somewhere...

A development that's been demonstrated by a few members over on a Facebook group I'm on is that you can get those small quick-adjust F-Clamps from a place like Lowe's, and it fits right into the blade holder of a jigsaw. Fit it in place, lock it solid, put some medium into the bottle to try and loosen it up, and then slowly apply trigger pressure - mother of all paint shakers right there. Should help you at least loosen the less-screwed ones so you can convert them to droppers. I know, you don't want to, but let's face it, you'd save money in the long term at least for now.

Now I use Vallejo, and I've noticed the gloss effect happens if they sit a little too long. See the paint shaker idea above, if it's been on the rack a little too long. There's also the Game Colour line which are quite nice to work with - my Eldar are mostly done with Game Colour and they come out nice and matte for me.

As for droppers in person, I'm not sure. I had bought some a while ago online, I think from the Warstore.

http://www.thewarstore.com/paint-brushes-empty-bottles.html

 DarkKnights44 wrote:
I have reaper, and like them. I have Vallejo as well, along with GW, reaper seems to be my go to, since I like matte colors as well being that I have Raven Guard and prefer them being matte over gloss.

I don't think you'll have any issues with reaper and the dropper bottles are fantastic compared to GW, still not sure why they have them anymore, they are so outdated.

Reaper droppers are the *only* droppers I've ever had clog on me

GW's flip tops aren't really outdated, the really really old GW paints (90's) were actually pop tops that would never dry out, it's the ranges we've had since then that suck.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

OgreChubbs wrote:
I only buy gw paints and non of mine ever dried up. Hell I just opened a start painting box I bought in 2003 ish and they are perfect. How do you guys keep your paints? Mine are usually in the basement or the attic.

Come back to me in a couple of years and let me know if those pots you just opened are still perfect It's once you open them they start to go.

The current GW pots aren't as terrible as previous GW ranges, but they still suck and I've still had a couple go bad on me (Ceramite white dried out on me and my Averland Sunset has gone chunky though still usable).

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 DarkKnights44 wrote:
I have reaper, and like them. I have Vallejo as well, along with GW, reaper seems to be my go to, since I like matte colors as well being that I have Raven Guard and prefer them being matte over gloss.

I don't think you'll have any issues with reaper and the dropper bottles are fantastic compared to GW, still not sure why they have them anymore, they are so outdated.

Reaper droppers are the *only* droppers I've ever had clog on me

GW's flip tops aren't really outdated, the really really old GW paints (90's) were actually pop tops that would never dry out, it's the ranges we've had since then that suck.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

OgreChubbs wrote:
I only buy gw paints and non of mine ever dried up. Hell I just opened a start painting box I bought in 2003 ish and they are perfect. How do you guys keep your paints? Mine are usually in the basement or the attic.

Come back to me in a couple of years and let me know if those pots you just opened are still perfect It's once you open them they start to go.

The current GW pots aren't as terrible as previous GW ranges, but they still suck and I've still had a couple go bad on me (Ceramite white dried out on me and my Averland Sunset has gone chunky though still usable).

That's just it lol the paints you would think would have the problems like usual, are perfectly fine! Averland Sunset is going good after nigh on three years...Rakarth Flesh, Zandri Dust, Khorne Red, Ushabti Bone...I bought them in December and have already had to toss them...oh well I'm interested in trying other brands, as well, but I may take on the task of transferring GW paints to the droppers...

 TheWarpSaysHello wrote:
Rakarth Flesh, Zandri Dust, Khorne Red, Ushabti Bone...I bought them in December and have already had to toss them...

What??? You bought them 2 months ago and have now had to bin them? That can't be right?

I'm a newbie, so I've only had my paints about a year, but so far they're all fine, apart from a pot of Imperial Primer which solidified very quickly. I complained in the GW store and they just said Imperial Primer can be like that. I should have got a refund, really but I suppose they would have argued that I hadn't closed the lid properly or something. I'll be annoyed if they don't last much longer as some of them I've barely used - particularly the layer paints that are only used for a touch of edge highlighting, I can see them lasting ten years before I used them up.

pablopatito wrote:

 TheWarpSaysHello wrote:
Rakarth Flesh, Zandri Dust, Khorne Red, Ushabti Bone...I bought them in December and have already had to toss them...

What??? You bought them 2 months ago and have now had to bin them? That can't be right?

I'm a newbie, so I've only had my paints about a year, but so far they're all fine, apart from a pot of Imperial Primer which solidified very quickly. I complained in the GW store and they just said Imperial Primer can be like that. I should have got a refund, really but I suppose they would have argued that I hadn't closed the lid properly or something. I'll be annoyed if they don't last much longer as some of them I've barely used - particularly the layer paints that are only used for a touch of edge highlighting, I can see them lasting ten years before I used them up.

It seems to be hit and miss with each individual pot. I have a pot of Mephiston Red that was one of the first three paints I ever purchased, and it's low but still running perfectly. But yes, there are pots that are almost completely dried out within a few months. I clean out dried paint around the seals, and even pots that don't have any paint around the seals still seem to suffer. Or they can be perfectly fine. It's a toss up...on a side note, Imperial Primer never. Stays. Good.

When I had a GW store close by, they just told me to bring the pot of paint back to the store and they would give me a new one. That was long ago though so who knows what their policy is now.

Without reading everything in this thread, my main issue with Vallejo is is seems to run out quicker than citadel paints, it probably has something to do with how much paint you can control getting onto your pallet.

I like them both, I feel that my Vallejo coats are a bit thinner, but also flow a lot easier as a result.

I think it comes to personal preference.

Gummy, one catch I have found with Vallejo is that as they start getting down in the bottle, if they haven't been excessively aggressively shaken, they get thicker as you go down, so the key trick is to literally tap the bottle on the palette so the tip strikes it to draw some of the more sedimented paint down to the tip. I've killed a couple of bottles, and I had significant mileage on the nose-tapping stage of the bottle.

 TheWarpSaysHello wrote:
It seems to be hit and miss with each individual pot. I have a pot of Mephiston Red that was one of the first three paints I ever purchased, and it's low but still running perfectly. But yes, there are pots that are almost completely dried out within a few months. I clean out dried paint around the seals, and even pots that don't have any paint around the seals still seem to suffer. Or they can be perfectly fine. It's a toss up...on a side note, Imperial Primer never. Stays. Good.

Yeah that's very true. I've actually had pots of identical colours (forgot I already had a paint so bought another one) where one has gone bad and the other has stayed fine for years.

Some people say they don't have any problems, maybe they have some trick to stopping them drying out, but it mostly seems random to me, I've tried every magical trick I've heard and still lose a pot from time to time (less not than I did back in the days of the hard plastic pots, but still enough to be annoying).

The paints that are thicker to start out with (like textures and dries) are definitely more prone to turning to stone, but even there it seems pretty random with some seeming to last years and a few going bad after just a few months.

But if it's only been a few months I'd definitely take it back to the store and complain.

Sauragnmon wrote:
Gummy, one catch I have found with Vallejo is that as they start getting down in the bottle, if they haven't been excessively aggressively shaken, they get thicker as you go down, so the key trick is to literally tap the bottle on the palette so the tip strikes it to draw some of the more sedimented paint down to the tip. I've killed a couple of bottles, and I had significant mileage on the nose-tapping stage of the bottle.

Thats an interesting idea, I'll give it a shot when I get home to see if I have any better results.

Another issue I have with vallejo is that the tips and the insides of the lids get super gunky, it seems whenever I take some paint out of the bottle, it just keeps going until I wipe it on some paper, but it still gaks up the bottle.

I've never had trouble with Citadel drying out, and I live in a pretty dry climate (but not /that/ dry).

You can pull the cap off the Vallejo bottles if you have big problems with it clogging, and that lets you get inside it better.

I've only managed, since picking up the hobby again and getting into Vallejo, which started in 2008-2009 area, and plenty of painting, I've only managed to kill Two bottles.

Something I learned recently about Vallejo: the best way to mix the paint in the post is not to shake them, but rather roll them between the palms of your hands, applying a little bit of pressure (found the tip on their website, and it works wonders).

Vallejo has a Game extra opaque range, which, like the Citadel base colors, has great coverage. I don't know if the other brands you mentioned also clearly list some colors are being very opaque (in the Vallejo game and model ranges, some colors have great coverage, whereas others really don't).

I'm pretty happy with my Vallejo, and use mostly that is it's the easiest (beside citadel) for me to find. But my advice would be to mix and match between brands.

fresus wrote:
Vallejo has a Game extra opaque range, which, like the Citadel base colors, has great coverage.

Per Vallejo, the Game Color Extra Opaques use the exact same formula as their Model Color line.

 Ghaz wrote:

fresus wrote:
Vallejo has a Game extra opaque range, which, like the Citadel base colors, has great coverage.

Per Vallejo, the Game Color Extra Opaques use the exact same formula as their Model Color line.

Weird. I don't have that many Model colors, but some of them definitely don't have great coverage. It's really a hit or miss (like with most paint ranges).
Maybe out of all the paints they had, only the most opaque ones made it to the extra opaque range, without them doing anything special to get that effect…

From the Vallejo FAQ:

4.2. Are the new extra opaque colors in Game Color similar to Model Color?

Yes, for these 16 Extra Opaque colors, the Model Color formula was used, since the viscosity of this formula supplies the opacity needed for a quick, one- coat base or foundation application.

They didn't choose the Model Colors they did due to their coverage, otherwise they would have all been greens or browns. They chose the colors they did for them to mirror GW's Foundation paints.

fresus wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

fresus wrote:
Vallejo has a Game extra opaque range, which, like the Citadel base colors, has great coverage.

Per Vallejo, the Game Color Extra Opaques use the exact same formula as their Model Color line.

Weird. I don't have that many Model colors, but some of them definitely don't have great coverage. It's really a hit or miss (like with most paint ranges).
Maybe out of all the paints they had, only the most opaque ones made it to the extra opaque range, without them doing anything special to get that effect…

Yeah a bunch of the Model Colour paints don't have awesome coverage, I'm sure they only picked the ones they felt had decent coverage. It's typically the duller colours that have better coverage.

But I've had mixed experience with the Extra Opaque range too, for whatever reason the Extra Opaque purple has worse coverage than the regular Game Color purple.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ghaz wrote:
From the Vallejo FAQ:

4.2. Are the new extra opaque colors in Game Color similar to Model Color?

Yes, for these 16 Extra Opaque colors, the Model Color formula was used, since the viscosity of this formula supplies the opacity needed for a quick, one- coat base or foundation application.

They didn't choose the Model Colors they did due to their coverage, otherwise they would have all been greens or browns. They chose the colors they did for them to mirror GW's Foundation paints.

I've not found Vallejo's Extra Opaque being a good mirror for GW's Foundations, the Foundations were all very very dull, the Extra Opaques I've used tend to be brighter than that.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I've not found Vallejo's Extra Opaque being a good mirror for GW's Foundations, the Foundations were all very very dull, the Extra Opaques I've used tend to be brighter than that.

Each of the VGC Extra Opaque paints line up with a Foundation paint (and its current replacement) on their Vallejo Equivalent Values PDF. That's too much of a coincidence. Whatever method Vallejo used (flawed or not), its obvious they chose those colors as the Extra Opaque paints to mirror GW's Foundation paints.

 Ghaz wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I've not found Vallejo's Extra Opaque being a good mirror for GW's Foundations, the Foundations were all very very dull, the Extra Opaques I've used tend to be brighter than that.

Each of the VGC Extra Opaque paints line up with a Foundation paint (and its current replacement) on their Vallejo Equivalent Values PDF. That's too much of a coincidence. Whatever method Vallejo used (flawed or not), its obvious they chose those colors as the Extra Opaque paints to mirror GW's Foundation paints.

You talking about the table on page 17? It only includes 8 of the EO paints, the EO range has 16 colours.

From what I see they are only "mirrors" in the sense that when you make an "extra opaque" range you're always going to have some basic similarities (ie. Red, grey, blue grey, khaki, yellow-brown, etc etc.).

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
You talking about the table on page 17? It only includes 8 of the EO paints, the EO range has 16 colours.

Page 16 has the equivalents for Tallarn Flesh, Knarloc Green, Tau Sept Ochre, Khemri Brown, and Charadon Granite. Page 17 has the equivalents for Mechrite Red, Mordian Blue, Astronomican Grey, Adeptus Battlegrey, Orkhide Shade, Dheneb Stone, Gretchin Green and Iyanden Darksun. Only Heavy Ochre, Heavy Sienna and Heavy Violet don't have equivalents to the old Foundation paints, and Necron Abyss, Hormagaunt Purple and Calthan Brown don't have equivalents in the Extra Opaque paints. I would have been more correct in saying that most of the old Foundation Paints have an Extra Opaque equivalent.