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CAD
HQ
Warboss, BP, PK, DLS, Warbike, Warlord - 140pts
Painboy, Warbike - 75pts

Troops
3 Warbikers - 54pts
3 Warbikers - 54pts

Elites
5 Tankbustas, 2 bomb Squig + Trukk, RR, Rokkit - 110pts
5 Tankbustas, 2 bomb Squig + Trukk, RR, Rokkit - 110pts
5 Tankbustas, 2 bomb Squig + Trukk, RR, Rokkit - 110pts

CAD2
HQ
Zhadsnark the rippa - 150pts
Big Mek, KFF, Warbike - 110pts

Troops
3 warbikers - 54pts
3 warbikers - 54 pts

Formation: Ghazghkull's Bully Boyz
5 Meganobz, 1 killsaw + Trukk, RR, Rokkit - 245pts
5 Meganobz, 1 killsaw + Trukk, RR, Rokkit - 245pts
5 Meganobz, 1 killsaw + Trukk, RR, Rokkit - 245pts

That's very nice, I love this list. That is basically how i would play troop bikers+tankbustas+bullyboyz. The only change that I can suggest (but the list is nice and there's no need to change it) is to take one CAD and just two HQs in order to increase the number of warbikes. Two units of six with nob, bp, pk and two-three units of three with no upgrades. Or one unit of six and three units of three if you keep three HQs, two CADs in that case in order to have obj sec.

Zhadsnark as a warlord stops you taking certain units. Is there any way you can drop one set of tank bustas and maybe switch the 2 war bike units in one CAD into grots. That give you a ton of points to make 1 larger bike squad for sruvivability of all the HQs

 rawne2510 wrote:
Zhadsnark as a warlord stops you taking certain units. Is there any way you can drop one set of tank bustas and maybe switch the 2 war bike units in one CAD into grots. That give you a ton of points to make 1 larger bike squad for sruvivability of all the HQs

Without mek gunz or lootas those 3 min units of tankbustas are very important, so I wouldn't recommend to cut one of them. In order to increase the number of 1-2 bikers units I think he can only drop an HQ. 4-5 troop bikers units are also quite powerful, gretchin don't fit the theme in my opinion and I'd avoid them. After all 3 bikes cost 54 points and 10 gretchin are 35 so not a huge difference but the bikes are way better: more speed, more dakka, more resilient.

Why are the tank bustas important. what can they do that 9 bikers with those HQ and 3 PK not do?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They have a 2+ cover save and are lethal in combat against anything.

Only S5 in the shooting phase though, and each unit of tankbustas has a melta bomb so having 3 instead of 2 can make a difference. Tankhunter helps too, and with bomb squigs you have some shots at bs5. You may want to pop a vehicle and then assault the crew inside with bikers but maybe with only the bikes firepower you couldn't do that. Against some dedicated close combat units like wulfen those bikers are dead, I wouldn't put all the eggs in a basket and 4 HQs are too many in my opinion, especially if taken in the same unit. Yes bikers and HQ bikers are great but in close combat they only have a 4+ armour, no invuln and all the pks attack are resolved at I1 with the exception of zhadsnark. They're far from being immortal in close combat.

Knew you'd appreciate it Blackie lol.

I agree number of bikers is a bit concerning. I could just easily drop say the big Mek, kff on bike. Make a ork horde detachment with a big biker deathstar. But I really want all four of those biker HQ's and the fact that I have custom built them lol

Yeah I love bikers HQs too. Also min tankbustas and bullyboyz are among my favourite units. If you take all the HQs together maybe even a min unit of bikes with them could be enough.

I just think 6 bikers with 2+ cover save and FnP is better than 1 units of tank busters.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
its ablative wounds for the HQs

Get yourself a voidshield generator. Instead of big mek or 1 unit of tankbustas. It's WORTH IT.
I'd also consider dropping a painboss but it's optional ofc. Can get something extra for the points - like a couple skorchas for the meganobz or a cybork body for a boss - just 5 pts for a 6+++ on a 140 pts model.

BTW Zardsnark is your warlord ..its his trait that allows bikers as troops
I have found Gunwagons work well for Tankbustas ..However they are not fast and everything you have is fast..soo...
Wait you have only used 1756 points so far ...So you have the points to add in some other stuff



Automatically Appended Next Post:
So with the remaining points Buy 3 more bikers to tag in a unit giving you the 6 bikers to ride with the HQ's ..up grade the big meks bike to Gazbag..and give him a big coppa..and paint the trukks red ..that extra inch may be handy ..

With the left over points, I will increase the size of 1 warbiker mob to 6 warbikers + nob with pk. All the Biker hqs will join that mob

Nice..That should work well

IA8: "If Zhadsnark is leading the army, then he allows warbike mobs to be taken as a troop choice."

I believe that Zhadsnark will have to be the warlord.

You are correct. Made the necessary changes to the list below.

CAD
HQ
Warboss, BP, PK, DLS, Warbike - 140pts
Painboy, Warbike - 75pts

Troops
3 Warbikers - 54pts
3 Warbikers - 54pts

Elites
5 Tankbustas, 2 bomb Squig + Trukk, RR, Rokkit - 110pts
5 Tankbustas, 2 bomb Squig + Trukk, RR, Rokkit - 110pts
5 Tankbustas, 2 bomb Squig + Trukk, RR, Rokkit - 110pts

CAD2
HQ
Zhadsnark the Rippa(Warlord)- 150pts
Big Mek, KFF, Warbike - 110pts

Troops
6 Warbikers + Nob, pk - 161pts
3 warbikers - 54 pts

Formation: Ghazghkull's Bully Boyz
5 Meganobz, 1 killsaw + Trukk, RR, Rokkit - 245pts
5 Meganobz, 1 killsaw + Trukk, RR, Rokkit - 245pts
5 Meganobz, 1 killsaw + Trukk, RR, Rokkit - 245pts

Total: 1833pts

With the reamaining points to invest you can add 3 bomb squigs or 3 kombi skorchas for the meganobz.

I like your list a lot!

Only change I'd make is to swap the warbiker nob's pk for a big choppa, since he's probably just going to be challenge bait. Then I'd give the big mek a killsaw. Then maybe the dead shiny shoota. You don't have to use it, but it could come in handy. It's a cheap trick, just in case.

Deleted.

A few thoughts on the fringe;
-If bikez and meganobz are mostly unaffected by bonuses from the WAAAGH!, then why the warboss?
-With a 4+ Armor, and 4+ Cover on your bikes, what is the KFF 5+ Invul to shooting doing for you?

EDIT; Personally not a fan of tankbustas anymore

The Warboss is there correct for the Waaagh! But also for DLS and bosspole as Zhadsnark cannot take either.

The KFF is for extra protection as ork units are fragile and somethings ignore cover. Alternatively the KFF could also accompany the Trukks to protect them.

What is wrong with Tankbustas? They are among one of the current Ork codex strongest unit choices.

hypertrophy wrote:
The Warboss is there correct for the Waaagh! But also for DLS and bosspole as Zhadsnark cannot take either.

The KFF is for extra protection as ork units are fragile and somethings ignore cover. Alternatively the KFF could also accompany the Trukks to protect them.

What is wrong with Tankbustas? They are among one of the current Ork codex strongest unit choices.

Don't get me wrong your list is approvable. In your kind of list I value the WAAAGH less because the Bikes and the Meganobz benefit less from it. I fail to find a cost effective purpose in him being a DLS and BP bringer when a Warbiker Nob could bring the BP and the points cost of the Warboss could mean several more warbikerz.

The Big Mek with KFF- the 5++ save seems a touch redundant, yes it could help trukkz. The Void Shield Generator has it's pro's and con's and is worth considering.

As far as tankbustas go, I feel like the melta bomb nerf makes them comparable to any shooting unit in a vacuum. Also, when compared to other ork shooting in a vacuum, they seem inferior. But, when playing orkz, most of our shooting is inferior to everything, so it's often difficult to really aruge Tankbustas over say.. Lootas.

S8 AP3, tank hunter, double first blood vps, 5 pt 2+ to hit rokkits. They can ride in a transport without having to snap fire, unlike lootas.

lootas are good too but it's two different purposes. Lootas are great vs light/medium vehicles ~AV10-11, skimmers, fliers,and medium or light infantry like aspect warriors or AM vets. bustas are for med/heavy vehicles AV12-13, walkers, MCs, and elite or MEQ equivalent infantry.

Ideally you'd take both.

Also, the warboss is there for the star. Zhad has to be boss for the biker troop choices. No waaagh. Bikers, Tankbustas, lootas, and MANz don't care at all and mechanization can negate that drawback as well. There's good synergy here.

 slip wrote:
S8 AP3, tank hunter, double first blood vps, 5 pt 2+ to hit rokkits. They can ride in a transport without having to snap fire, unlike lootas.

lootas are good too but it's two different purposes. Lootas are great vs light/medium vehicles ~AV10-11, skimmers, fliers,and medium or light infantry like aspect warriors or AM vets. bustas are for med/heavy vehicles AV12-13, walkers, MCs, and elite or MEQ equivalent infantry.

Ideally you'd take both.

Also, the warboss is there for the star. Zhad has to be boss for the biker troop choices. No waaagh. Bikers, Tankbustas, lootas, and MANz don't care at all and mechanization can negate that drawback as well. There's good synergy here.

Tankbustas need a 35 point trukk + ram. You can have Trukk+Ram and 7 Tankbustas or 9 Lootas. In the theoryhammer world said Tankbustas spend the first turn moving and the Lootas spend the first turn firing.

Lootas glance AV12 better, Tankbustas glance AV13 better but hit with so few shots they are likely to wiff if the opponent even has a 5+ cover.

the 35 point trukk plus ram is a benefit that provides maneuverability and protection against small arms fire. Theory hammer says you have a 6" move + 24" range for 30" effective range turn one. No man's land is only 24", you should be able to fire first turn.

The trukk has a rokkit too. 8 rokkits average three hits, vs av12, we're talking rerollable 4's. Lootas would get six hits, one pen one glance. The tankbustas are far superior in your own example, potentially destroying a av12 3 hp vehicle in one turn as opposed to two.

The tankbustas can also take bomb squigs. 3 tanhunting bomb squigs is 15 points and a guaranteed auto destruct. (They would average 4 hp that turn, 5 using your squad sizes, an extra loota would average one more s7 hit.)

AV12 is absolutely the point you move from lootas to tankbustas. Lootas also have zero maneuverability so cannot flank enemy vehicles to hit side armour or move to secure an objective. The trukk also gives the tankbustas two scoring units as opposed to one, and also provides the ability to deploy the unit in reserve without completely wasting them, as opposed to lootas.

Then said tankbustas are at 24 inches and may well not live to contribute another turn. I used to promote them excessively, the grenade FAQ killed them, the turn after they achieve range they are cannon fodder. Lootas might be lucky enough to be too far away. Bomb Squigs will not make range in turn one barring less likely circumstance.

Have the last word, I'll leave it be. Sorry if I derailed this.

Okay, if I get the last word I may as well use it.

The bomb squig is 18", with a 6" move gives it an effective range of 24" turn one, enough to cover the distance of no man's land to the enemy deployment zone.

The tankbustas would have much more survivability than the lootas and would require at least two units, or one unit with two rounds of firing to wipe them out, while the lootas could be dealt with one round of one units shooting. The bustas can also counter deploy in reserve vs alpha strike.

A trukk rush list also would have a least 8 trukks. They can't blast all 8 turn one and if they focus on my range units turn one instead of my cc units, turn two is going to be bloody.

Tankbustas shooting is plenty effective. I'm sorry the FAQ ruined your taste for them but they still have their role. I've extensively playtested both bustas and lootas and they do not fill the same roles so I have to disagree with the idea that you can simply replace one with the other any more you can replace trukks with wagons. I'm not saying you're a bad general or anything. I don't know what your list looks like. Maybe you have enough pks you don't need to rokkits for can opening. Conversely, I roll a high mobility list that utilizes bustas but no lootas (just in this current incarnation.) and my volume of fire is derived from my warbikers and a mix of tank hunter or twin linked rokkits. I just disagree with the overall tankbusta assessment.

Bomb squigs range is not an issue as in turn 1 you'll always move 12 inches with trukks forcing those tankbustas to snap shoot, that's the reason I typically move flat out every trukk turn 1.

Like bikes that usually turbo boost turn 1 and throw a lot of dakka turn 2, the tankbustas get closer turn 1 and fire turn 2, so your bomb squig will always be in range.

If you go second instead that 6 inches move can be enough to get in range with both rokkits and squigs.

Lootas are probably more killy than tankbustas but also way more fragile, they don't have a transport so a round of s4 shots can wipe them out easily. With some casualties you can lose the entire squad. Tankbustas also have more synergy with fast lists as they add more targets.

Looks pretty good but I think you've made an error paying for all these HQs and running a low number of bikes, even in your ammended list. Personally I would just lose the KFF Bike Mek and replace him with more Warbikers. Sure it makes then super vulnerable to Ignores Cover, but that is a ridiculously expensive 5++ you're giving the unit, and I suspect (no experience here yet, but I will soon) that a 5++ won't make much of a difference anyway when you're facing Markerlighted Tau shooting.

In my mind you're running somewhat of a hybrid lis that isn't quite MSU enough or resilient enough for the points. Usually with Bully Boyz I run MSU Tankbustas, PK Nob + Mek Trukk Boyz and a Warboss + Painboy Warbikers unit with PK Nob. With a Zhad list I run three MSU MANZ missiles, three MSU Tankbustas units, an 11 man mob of Warbikers for Zhad and Painboy and 3/5 man MSU Warbikers. As it stands your Bully Boyz are number 1 targets and there's not much left once those are footslogging, and with only 6 Trukks for saturation I think you're living on a prayer. I really wish you luck though and I hope I dont seem too critical, you've certainly got a solid list here!

I have never liked tankbustas. Seem to consistently underperform. Lootas in a wagon x 2 for 165 ish could replace your tank bustas in truks. YMMV

 doktor_g wrote:
I have never liked tankbustas. Seem to consistently underperform. Lootas in a wagon x 2 for 165 ish could replace your tank bustas in truks. YMMV

Lootas in wagons never seemed like a good idea, if they move they would only snap fire, if the stay where they are you're paying 110 points and another heavy support choice only for getting a protection for the lootas.

Best way to run orks is to keep everything as cheap as possible, typical tankbustas units cost 115 points and have an average of 4 hits in the first turn in which they shoot, 2 in the other ones, they also have tankhunter and a melta bomb. 10 lootas in a battlewagon cost 250 points, if you take two you're using 4 heavy support choices and need a second CAD. Alternatively if you take a blitz brigade you would have two wagons that don't have any synergy with the rest of the army as that formation works if every wagon is going to advance in order to have a wall of av14. If they take a looted wagon it's even worse as if they press dat they waste an entire round of shooting and those vehicles aren't particularly resilient .

I'd suggest lootas only in min units, 3x5 cost just 210 points. You protect lootas by positioning them in cover, splitting into three units, and advancing with a lot of fast units that are more a primary threat for the opponent that shoot them first.

But in a list with everything fast but still quite fragile you want more units to go into battle, trukks full of tankbustas have a better synergy than lootas.